Dear ASO (I want my EPO!) . . .

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by serpico7, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. serpico7

    serpico7 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    If this year is a taste of the future of pro cycling, I'd like my money back (oh, right, I never paid any money).

    If the future involves only slightly doped riders marking each others every move with very few able to mount attacks, and only on the last climb of a stage involving 3 HC climbs, I'd rather not bother tuning in. Don't get me wrong, I thought the doping crackdown would result in a more level playing field. But I didn't realize how much of a killjoy it would be for the mountain stages.

    How I miss the days of Ras and Contador unleashing viscious attacks on each other and on the poor wheelsuckers who tried to follow them. I would have paid to see the Cobra mixing it up with those two.

    How I miss the very red-blooded (both figuratively and literally) Vinokurov racing to a stage win and into viewers' hearts.

    How I miss Flandis' spectacular comeback in the grueling heat, where he had to pour gallons of water on himself to prevent his supercharged body from overheating.

    How I miss the improbably large mountain climbing German striking fear in the enlarged hearts of smaller climbers with his relentless grinding of massive gears that make mere mortals' knees buckle at just the thought of turning Der Jan's pedals.

    How I miss l'elefantino shifting into the drops and blowing the field to pieces. His love of the slopes on the road made me willing to turn a blind eye to his love of the slopes away from cycling.

    And how I miss uni-ball. While his team's dominance took some of the suspense out of the race, watching Pharmstrong in the mountains was a joy. The attacks, the counterattacks, the dancing on the pedals, the look.

    If the future of cycling is the whinging, wheelsucking Cadel Evans and Tours like this one, I beg you to reconsider. Please bring back Ras, Contadope and the Cobra.

    Regards,
    Fan of the "old" cycling
     
    Tags:


  2. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    0
    -1.

    I'd rather watch authentic rather than fake. Rather not have all the talented kids being pressured to risk their lives. Rather not have attrition be meaningless... with the ability to refuel whenever you needed to.

    I don't think one race can be a fair sample to make a judgmernt, if dominant displays of physical strength and power is what you enjoy. I've enjoyed this year's race. And in any case... a doped peloton should be just as competitive against each other as a non-doped peloton. I have enjoyed this year's Giro and TdF... despite the fact that there are most likely dopers in both (Ricco in the Giro for sure).

    I like to see human beings struggling against their natural physiologies and endurance barriers, not powering up climbs like robots.
     
  3. thoughtforfood

    thoughtforfood New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,474
    Likes Received:
    0
    +1 Cranky
     
  4. TheDarkLord

    TheDarkLord New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,887
    Likes Received:
    0
    Umm, no thanks! I don't miss the FL type incredible performances. I don't miss the race being decided in the first week. The only thing I miss is the Chicken vs Contador type duels.
     
  5. Dermo

    Dermo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    :D :D
     
  6. Klodifan

    Klodifan New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    0
    hmmm... its an interesting argument.

    in a perfect world, id love to see clean racing. we dont live in a perfect world, however.

    I also dont think this years lackluster tour is b/c of guys backing off epo. clearly, the peloton is still dirty. I just dont see this as an epo issue at all, but a personality issue.

    these guys are boring, so the race is boring. their dispositions lack the charisma that so many of the riders you referenced above have. except for valverde, b/c hes a star! too bad he crashed and cracked in the pyrenees. and ricco injected life into the tour until he was booted for injecting something else. the rest of the lot just dont have "it".
     
  7. Erzulis Boat

    Erzulis Boat New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stockholm Syndrome.
     
  8. Piotr

    Piotr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well Serpico7, as some critics would charge, there's a possibility that cycling is quite boring. So maybe you just don't like cycling? ;)
     
  9. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't agree it's a personality thing. Charisma doesn't suddenly make your legs able to power you up a hill 3 minutes faster. Valverde is regarded as a reasonably aggressive rider. Don't see him lighting it up too much.

    Some of the anecdotal effects of dope (EPO) that I have heard are that you can't feel much (especially pain) in your legs. That would kinda help if you wanted to mount an attack on a climb.

    Have any of you guys raced others on a bike up a hill before? It hurts.
     
  10. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    46
    Amazing as it is, WWE/WWF and the other professional wresting bodies have a fairly significant following. People will always gander to a spectacle regardless of its authenticity, or lack thereof...

    Personally, it's great to see riders that appear to be more human (like me) after a hard effort as opposed to appearing like their looking for the afterparty...

    The cream has risen to the top in this race, as it very well should. No antics, no unhuman performances, no brash bravado is necessary to distinguish these riders from the second tier and domestiques...
     
  11. Klodifan

    Klodifan New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    0
    The previous two stages, and much of today's stage was ridden by guys who were too reticent about their attacking abilities. If this is the future of cycling, then it is in trouble. I havent heard overwhelming commentary about how exciting these stages have been. On the contrary, it has been incredibly boring. Too many guys within seconds of each other sounds exciting on the surface, but those results indicate that this lot lacks that something extra special, that something something that makes good riders great. Greatness, overcoming physical and mental challenges through amazing endurance and strength are qualities that inspire and draw people in.

    Maybe Shakespeare can explain it better than I. He said:

    "Be not afraid of greatness. some are born great, some acheive greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them".

    Isnt it better to achieve greatness then to have it thrust upon you? These guys seem afraid of greatness. Whomever wins this year, and if they are seen as great, it is b/c le tour and its greatness, not b/c of his individual flair.
     
  12. serpico7

    serpico7 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Imagine the mountain stages in this Tour without the EPO fueled performances of the Saunier Duval squad. Dreadfully boring. And the mountain stages are the most exciting part of the Tour. I find the flat stages and early TTs are best viewed in highlights.

    As Klodifan notes, the idea of a bunch of GT contenders separated by seconds sounds really exciting, and has certainly generated much lively discussion regarding tactics/strategy amongst those of us in this forum. But the actual racing has been far less interesting.

    It's a fair point that we can't judge the future of the Tour by one year's race. But if this does represent the future, I'll still follow the Tour, but it will all be via highlights.
     
  13. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    10,817
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's all relative. If the top six cyclists are all close in ability... the tactics are much more cat and mouse IMO than if you have one or two who are dominant. Do you honestly think that cyclists have this reserve of performance that they are "reticent" to express and they end up repressing it due to a lack of confidence and charisma?
     
  14. Klodifan

    Klodifan New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    0
    it is all relative. im not interested in wheelsucking, pussy tactics by ogre on bike. im not interested in just above average professional cyclists. i want to see greatness. i want to see the vinos and riccos in this tour.

    and yes, i do think some cyclists have a reserve of performance and miss opportunities to attack b/c of lack of confidence. its the fear of losing that makes it especially boring for spectators to watch. great champions are fearless.
     
  15. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    11,372
    Likes Received:
    976
    Better without the gear IMO.

    I like to see them suffer like dogs. See Kohl absolutely smashed after the Alpe d'Huez stage. See Evans pale, drawn and strained with lines etched in his face after the Restefond stage. Look at Menchov cracking and dragging his carcass back up to the leaders.

    Watching blokes with fat arses riding up cols breathing through their noses was pissing me off.
     
  16. Hitchy

    Hitchy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    0
    + 1 gazillion....I sort of miss the 'personalities', but I don't miss what made them 'personalities'...geez ya a hard man to please though, Serpico...what did we have last year...the second closest TDF ever, 3 within 30 secs has never happened before...what about this year?...whatever the result, we're gunna go into stage 20 with 4 or 5 guys that think they can win!....when was the last time that happened?....so while some of the riders & tactics may be a little less 'exciting' than the dopeheads years...I'd rather see a battle of athletes than of chemists....hey there's an idea...why not a TDF for the chemists, can only take stuff you invented ya self, all gotta be wearing ya white coats & glasses...& we can all stand on the sidelines & argue over whose 'poindexter' is the 'nerdiest' :D
     
  17. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    46
    I'm curious: where does Sastre's attack rate on your greatness meter???
     
  18. Runitout

    Runitout New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    0

    Looked pretty bloody fearless to me - base of the Alpe - bashes it up to 11 and says - cop this, anyone game?

    And then suffers like Prometheus for 14k so he can win the bike race. If he'd blown up in a slobbering, snivelling, hypoxic mess, we'd have still said "Well done". As it was, it was magnificent bike racing.

    Menchov was classy as all hell, too. Busting a gut to get back up to the bunch, and then having a dig at the end to put whatever time he could into Evans.

    The only gutless thing was sucking wheels when you needed to attack to win the Tour. Yes, I'm looking at you, Valverde and VdV. Kohl was obviously in the box - he doesn't count.
     
  19. b1_

    b1_ New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    C'mon man, that's ludicrous. The point has never been that they doped, it's that they doped to get a leg-up on their fellow clean cyclists. It's equivalent to them fitting an engine to their bike. Imagine the climb yesterday with 2 or 3 of the rider's bikes squealing like pee-wee 50s and ejecting exhaust as they 'dominated' their opposition. Would you be cheering for them then?

    Dopers are cheats pure and simple. They will always be cheats. They're selfish and self centered and they have no respect for their colleagues. It shits me no end that Ricco is out riding with his friends and smiling away vowing to return stronger when he's the cause of Sanier Duval pulling out of the sport and 60-70 people losing their jobs. Complete clueless dipstick! I can only hope that for the rest of his career the fans boo him like they did when he got arrested.

    If everyone was doped it would at least make sense from a competition standpoint. I still wouldn't watch it though. I wouldn't be able to relate to juiced up super athletes because I don't use the stuff and am not interested in using it - I get up the climbs fine with what I've got. I would switch over to the clean version.
     
  20. Rolfrae

    Rolfrae New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with you Classic. It was great to see guys like Evans and Kohl absolutely stuffed at the top of L'Alpe, unlike previous years when Armstrong looked like he'd done nothing more strenuous than a lap of the Wallmart parking lot. Where was Hincapie yesterday? He was back where his physique suggests he should be - in the bus. Where would he have been if we were still in the EPO years? Riding no hands, popping wheelies, waving at the cameras. Fark the bad old days. I want to see those guys suffer, 'cause that's what happens in the real world.
     
Loading...