Death By Medicine

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Anth, Mar 5, 2004.



  1. Jan

    Jan Guest

  2. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_02.htm Anth
    >
    >

    Others have pointed out that such articles involve spurious extrapolations from usually twenty and
    thirty year old figures which involve their own selectivity of data and other extrapolations.
    Lazarou's figures have been torn apart many times. (This is not to deny that adverse events and
    medical error are not real problems and that many of them are avoidable. )

    What I would like to ask is why an article supposed to be supporting nutritional supplements against
    a perceived attack can find nothing positive to say about their medical usefulness? It is akin to
    the tactics of the "alternative" cancer industry which publishes volumes about the perceived
    failings of conventional cancer treatment (aided by the openness with which that is conducted) and
    nothing but "come hither" hints and teasers about its own true results.

    Peter Moran
     
  3. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: Re: Death By Medicine From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 3/5/2004 1:59 PM
    >Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
    >
    >
    >"Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_02.htm Anth
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Others have pointed out that such articles involve spurious extrapolations
    from usually twenty and thirty year old figures which involve their own
    >selectivity of data and other extrapolations

    Others as in the *gang*.

    > Lazarou's figures have been torn apart many times.

    YEAH, like Dr Burzynski was torn apart.

    >
    (This is not to deny that adverse events and medical error are not real problems and that many of
    them are avoidable. )

    As in, how many???????

    >What I would like to ask is why an article supposed to be supporting nutritional supplements
    >against a perceived attack can find nothing positive to say about their medical usefulness?

    Oh they can, just not in *this* article.

    > It is akin to the tactics of the "alternative" cancer industry which publishes volumes about the
    > perceived failings of conventional cancer treatment (aided by the openness with which that is
    > conducted) and nothing but "come hither" hints and teasers about its own true results.

    WRONG.

    How soon you forget!!!!!

    >http://www.whale.to/cancer/burzynski.html
    >
    >DR BURZYNSKI, M.D.
    >
    >"What made Dr Burzynski a threat to the cancer industry from the beginning was the prospect that
    >antineoplaston therapy represented a successful alternative to toxic and dangerous chemotherapy
    >drugs, upon which most of the cancer industry’s profits depend. Did the NCI pick up the tab for
    >completing his research? Did the ACS help with favourable publicity? Of course not. The minute NCI
    >saw evidence of antineoplastons working they distorted the data by withdrawing the 2 successful
    >patients and thus the evidence. NCI’s conduct towards him is a striking example of how an agency
    >presumed to be objective can set up a study that will either prove or disprove anything it wants.
    >In this case, there is clear evidence that NCI wanted to prove antineoplastons
    didn’t
    >work."—John Diamond, M.D. & Lee Cowden, M.D.
    >
    >
    >
    >"Without exception, all the oncologists I talked to about Dr Burzynski were scornful and hostile.
    >Twenty- five years of practicing unconventional medicine did not prepare me for what I discovered.
    >Delving into attitudes, actions, and beliefs of modern oncologists was like opening a box of cereal
    >and finding it full of worms. They just don’t care….The question I kept asking was why, and the
    >answer to that question gradually began to creep out: Dr Burzynski’s discovery threatens one of
    >the largest and most lucrative industries in the history of mankind, the cancer treatment industry.
    >
    >All those radiation machines and doctors who run them
    >
    >All those chemotherapy drugs and the doctors who prescribe them
    >
    >All those so called studies that just juggle the doses of chemo & radiation, and
    >
    >All those surgeons who have been flailing at cancer for over a 100 years
    >
    >If it (antineoplastons) is allowed to flourish, it renders obsolete the entire cancer treatment
    >industry. He has discovered a non-toxic treatment that is about as close to cure as we have ever
    >seen. If you think the lumber jacks in the Pacific Northwest were scornful of the spotted owl, you
    >haven’t seen anything yet….
    >
    >Also it is not just about money, it is about strongly held beliefs, beliefs that have meshed with
    >the personality of virtually everyone in the cancer treatment industry, especially the physicians.
    >In short, these beliefs are that cancer can only be treated with therapies that mutilate, poison,
    >or burn the patient, in the hope that they "kill" the cancer…..Therefore, each patient who is
    >miraculously cured by Burzynski’s nontoxic therapy is not viewed as a breakthrough, or even as
    >something good, but rather as a dangerous messenger of heresy, a terrible threat to their
    >beliefs."—Dr Whitaker, M.D.
    >
    >"Typical of Burzynski's extraordinary results were the outcomes for early groups of advanced cancer
    >patients treated with antineoplastons: 60 percent enjoyed objective remission, 47 percent
    >experienced complete remission, and 20 percent survived for over five years without cancer. These
    >and other results are far superior to anything reported then or now for standard cancer treatments.
    >(For example, in 1985 interleukin-2 was heavily promoted by orthodoxy, supposedly as a highly
    >promising new treatment after a single study showed it to have been associated with a complete
    >remission from cancer in only one patient out of twenty-four treated -- a positive response rate of
    >only fourpercent!)."--Barry Chowka http://members.aol.com/pbchowka/cancer94.html
    >
    >Fly to Texas.
    >
    >Dr Burzynski Research Institute Home page http://catalog.com/bri/bri.htm http://[email protected]/
    >
    >Burzynski Patient Group Directory http://www.burzynskipatientgroup.org/stories.htm
    >
    >Ralph Moss on Burzynski saga http://www.ralphmoss.com/burz.html
    >
    >Testimony of Raphaele Moreau-Horwin & Michael Horwin
    >
    >Choices in Healing by Michael Lerner http://www.commonwealhealth.org/choicescontents.html
    >
    >Happy Brain Cancer Statistics
    >
    >Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski took the FDA to court for slander. The FDA was telling oncologists that he
    > and his cancer medicine were frauds, but Dr. Burzynski won the case and the FDA was issued a
    > cease and desist order.
    >
    >To prove his case, Dr. Burzynski asked a respected oncologist specializing in brain cancer, Dr.
    >Robert Burdick, to review his patient records and act as an expert witness. The full text of the
    >statement is reproduced on the Burzynski Research Institute's site:
    >
    > http://www.cancermed.com
    >
    >If the text of the statement was not true, Dr. Burzynski would loose his medical license
    >and clinic.
    >
    >In the statement, Dr. Robert Burdick stated that primary brain cancer goes into remission 1 in 500+
    >times, regardless of treatment, but that he documented 17 cases of remission in 40 total cases of
    >primary brain cancer enrolled in one of Dr. Burzynski's phase I trials. He stated with authority
    >that the antineoplaston medicine must be responsible.
    >
    >Dr. Burzynski beat the primary brain cancer odds by more than 21250% Let the skeptics argue with
    > that!
    >
    >The FDA hauled Dr. Burzyski before 4 grand juries, none of which found him guilty of anything. When
    >they announced a fifth grand jury trial, angry voices were raised in congress and the FDA quickly
    >dropped its charges.
    >
    >The FDA tried its best to jail Dr. Burzynski without any proof of wrong doing, and if they had
    >succeeded the medicine that he and his large staff of doctors are testing would have been
    >effectively suppressed. As it is, justice prevailed and 72 phase II trials are currently in
    >progress.
    >
    >The amazing results of his medicin are not limited to primary brain cancer. They include all the
    >major cancers, and are far better for the major cancers. The medicine is non-toxic.
    >
    >Too bad the oncologists and skeptics here will get mad at me for pointing this out. Too bad that,
    >like the FDA, they don't want you to know about it.
    >
    >Jan
     
  4. Anth

    Anth Guest

    The cleanse if off for a few days - until I drink enough apple juice, just so I don't get no flack
    from people who said I didn't do this or that etc. Anth

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Death By Medicine From: "Anth" [email protected] Date: 3/5/2004 11:14 AM Pacific
    > >Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_02.htm Anth
    >
    > EOM once again exposed!!
    >
    > Thanks Anth and good luck with your cleanse, it is great you are doing
    this.
    >
    > Jan
     
  5. Anth

    Anth Guest

    (LEF is a fairly credible source) Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_02.htm Anth
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Others have pointed out that such articles involve spurious extrapolations from usually twenty and
    > thirty year old figures which involve their own selectivity of data and other extrapolations.
    > Lazarou's figures have
    been
    > torn apart many times. (This is not to deny that adverse events and medical error are not real
    > problems and that many of them are avoidable. )
    >
    > What I would like to ask is why an article supposed to be supporting nutritional supplements
    > against a perceived attack can find nothing positive to say about their medical usefulness? It is
    > akin to the
    tactics
    > of the "alternative" cancer industry which publishes volumes about the perceived failings of
    > conventional cancer treatment (aided by the openness with which that is conducted) and nothing but
    > "come hither" hints and teasers about its own true results.
    >
    > Peter Moran
     
  6. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

  7. Ilsa9.10

    Ilsa9.10 Guest

  8. Bew

    Bew Guest

  9. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Why is Gary Null not credible? I seem to recall that he travels a lot and keeps
    records about which treatments seem to work or not? He is even responsible for
    debunking a lot of treatments which show no effect. Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > (LEF is a fairly credible source) Anth
    >
    > (Gary Null isn't.)
    >
    > Peter Moran
     
  10. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    alternative treatments? In fact, at the moment the pharma
    companies are in the process of a disinformation war
    against supplements. Sooner or later the truth is going to
    come out. Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_-
    > > 02.htm Anth
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Others have pointed out that such articles involve
    > spurious extrapolations from usually twenty and thirty
    > year old figures which involve their own selectivity of
    > data and other extrapolations. Lazarou's figures have
    been
    > torn apart many times. (This is not to deny that adverse
    > events and medical error are not real problems and that
    > many of them are avoidable. )
    >
    > What I would like to ask is why an article supposed to be
    > supporting nutritional supplements against a perceived
    > attack can find nothing positive to say about their
    > medical usefulness? It is akin to the
    tactics
    > of the "alternative" cancer industry which publishes
    > volumes about the perceived failings of conventional
    > cancer treatment (aided by the openness with which that is
    > conducted) and nothing but "come hither" hints and teasers
    > about its own true results.
    >
    > Peter Moran
     
  11. "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > alternative treatments? In fact, at the moment the pharma
    > companies are in the process of a disinformation war
    > against supplements.

    That's strange, considering that the pharma companies
    manufacture most of the "supplelments".

    > Sooner or later the truth is going to come out. Anth
    >

    It's out.

    --Rich
     
  12. Anth

    Anth Guest

    That is untrue - there's herbs and other supplements. Anth

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:gt2dnbosTLsmmtfdRVn-
    [email protected]
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > > alternative
    treatments?
    > > In fact, at the moment the pharma companies are in the
    > > process of a disinformation war against supplements.
    >
    > That's strange, considering that the pharma companies
    > manufacture most of the "supplelments".
    >
    >
    >
    > > Sooner or later the truth is going to come out. Anth
    > >
    >
    > It's out.
    >
    > --Rich
    >
     
  13. Anth

    Anth Guest

    ..and also stranger how they conspired to increase prices
    when they discovered via Dr Rath that ascorbate has serious
    implications for treating heart disease - all that research
    money and useless drugs gone to waste. Your argument is
    flawed, and you are also stupid considering the facts that
    these guys are not batting for your side. When (and if) you
    come down with heart disease you will have their 'drugs' -
    good luck with them - I will have my ascorbate. Anth

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:gt2dnbosTLsmmtfdRVn-
    [email protected]
    >
    > "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > > alternative
    treatments?
    > > In fact, at the moment the pharma companies are in the
    > > process of a disinformation war against supplements.
    >
    > That's strange, considering that the pharma companies
    > manufacture most of the "supplelments".
    >
    >
    >
    > > Sooner or later the truth is going to come out. Anth
    > >
    >
    > It's out.
    >
    > --Rich
    >
     
  14. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    >alternative treatments? In fact, at the moment the pharma
    >companies are in the process of a disinformation war
    >against supplements. Sooner or later the truth is going to
    >come out.

    Anth is starting to remind me of that "Lazarus" character
    in one of the early Star Trek episodes, who was rational
    part of the time and irrational part of the time. (Turned
    out it was two different people, which I suppose could be
    the case here.)

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    >"Peter Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >>
    >> "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death-
    >> > _02.htm Anth
    >> >
    >> >
    >>
    >> Others have pointed out that such articles involve
    >> spurious extrapolations from usually twenty and thirty
    >> year old figures which involve their own selectivity of
    >> data and other extrapolations. Lazarou's figures have
    >been
    >> torn apart many times. (This is not to deny that adverse
    >> events and medical error are not real problems and that
    >> many of them are avoidable. )
    >>
    >> What I would like to ask is why an article supposed to be
    >> supporting nutritional supplements against a perceived
    >> attack can find nothing positive to say about their
    >> medical usefulness? It is akin to the
    >tactics
    >> of the "alternative" cancer industry which publishes
    >> volumes about the perceived failings of conventional
    >> cancer treatment (aided by the openness with which that
    >> is conducted) and nothing but "come hither" hints and
    >> teasers about its own true results.
    >>
    >> Peter Moran
    >>
    >
     
  15. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Why is Gary Null not credible? I seem to recall that he
    >travels a lot and keeps records about which treatments seem
    >to work or not? He is even responsible for debunking a lot
    >of treatments which show no effect.

    Name two. I've seen Null pushing all kinds of worthless
    "alternative" therapies, but I don't recall ever seeing him
    debunk one.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)


    >"Peter Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >>
    >> "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > (LEF is a fairly credible source) Anth
    >>
    >> (Gary Null isn't.)
    >>
    >> Peter Moran
    >>
    >
     
  16. Anth

    Anth Guest

    David wants everyone to be a mirror of himself, which is
    indicative of the ego trip that he runs on. I've seen people
    like you come and go and boy did they go. Anth

    "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > >alternative treatments? In fact, at the moment the pharma
    > >companies are in the process of a disinformation war
    > >against supplements. Sooner or later the truth is going
    > >to come out.
    >
    > Anth is starting to remind me of that "Lazarus" character
    > in one of the early Star Trek episodes, who was rational
    > part of the time and irrational part of the time. (Turned
    > out it was two different people, which I suppose could be
    > the case here.)
    >
    > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    > opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    > have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    > were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  17. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >David wants everyone to be a mirror of himself, which is
    >indicative of the ego trip that he runs on. I've seen
    >people like you come and go and boy did they go.

    In your vast, what, few months of experience here? I'm so
    impressed. I was here long before you arrived and I'll be
    here long after you're gone, top-poster.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

    >"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article
    >> <[email protected]>, Anth
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    >> >alternative treatments? In fact, at the moment the
    >> >pharma companies are in the process of a disinformation
    >> >war against supplements. Sooner or later the truth is
    >> >going to come out.
    >>
    >> Anth is starting to remind me of that "Lazarus" character
    >> in one of the early Star Trek episodes, who was rational
    >> part of the time and irrational part of the time. (Turned
    >> out it was two different people, which I suppose could be
    >> the case here.)
     
  18. Anth

    Anth Guest

    My father is bigger than your father etc. Anth

    "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >David wants everyone to be a mirror of himself, which is
    > >indicative of
    the
    > >ego trip that he runs on. I've seen people like you come
    > >and go and boy did they go.
    >
    > In your vast, what, few months of experience here? I'm so
    > impressed. I was here long before you arrived and I'll be
    > here long after you're gone, top-poster.
    >
    > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    > opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    > have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    > were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
    >
    >
    > >"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> In article
    > >> <[email protected]>, Anth
    > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> >Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > >> >alternative
    treatments?
    > >> >In fact, at the moment the pharma companies are in the
    > >> >process of a disinformation war against supplements.
    > >> >Sooner or later the truth is going to come out.
    > >>
    > >> Anth is starting to remind me of that "Lazarus"
    > >> character in one of the early Star Trek episodes, who
    > >> was rational part of the time and irrational part of
    > >> the time. (Turned out it was two different people,
    > >> which I suppose could be the case here.)
     
  19. Gymmy Bob

    Gymmy Bob Guest

    My father could lick your mother with both her hands tied
    behind her back!

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My father is bigger than your father etc. Anth
    >
    > "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article
    > > <[email protected]>, Anth
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >David wants everyone to be a mirror of himself, which
    > > >is indicative of
    > the
    > > >ego trip that he runs on. I've seen people like you
    > > >come and go and boy did they go.
    > >
    > > In your vast, what, few months of experience here? I'm
    > > so impressed. I was here long before you arrived and
    > > I'll be here long after you're gone, top-poster.
    > >
    > > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are
    > > my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    > > "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because
    > > giants were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson,
    > > MIT)
    > >
    > >
    > > >"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > > >message news:[email protected]
    > > >gy.com...
    > > >> In article
    > > >> <[email protected]>, Anth
    > > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >> >Where does mainstream say anything positive about
    > > >> >alternative
    > treatments?
    > > >> >In fact, at the moment the pharma companies are in
    > > >> >the process of a disinformation war against
    > > >> >supplements. Sooner or later the truth is going to
    > > >> >come out.
    > > >>
    > > >> Anth is starting to remind me of that "Lazarus"
    > > >> character in one of the early Star Trek episodes, who
    > > >> was rational part of the time and irrational part of
    > > >> the time. (Turned out it was two different
    people,
    > > >> which I suppose could be the case here.)
     
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