Death of a Viscount

[Tilyou1]

I previously thanked this list for its generous help in connection with the broken crank axle on
my Viscount.

I also previously posted an update about the solution my LBS was pursuing -- namely, to replace the
untapered uniquely Viscount BB with one by Phil Wood.

The Phil Wood works. I have not determined yet whether, armed with this serious upgrade, I can now
go dramatically faster.

(however, I am already thrilled I did not have to try to thread the BB shell, which might be to thin
with withstand it).

Pix (in forensic detail) are available at NY Bikeworks, which did the job:

http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html

To admire (or quake) at the irrational level to which a Viscount fixation can ascend, check

http://bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/viscountRCK.html

http://bikecult.com/works/archive/viscnt.html

Note, the use of yellow reflective tape on the seat tube had no appreciable affect on speed.

Research continues.

- Charles

[email protected]

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 21 Jan 2004 19:41:53 GMT, [email protected] (Tilyou1) wrote:
>Note, the use of yellow reflective tape on the seat tube had no appreciable affect on speed.

It's been scientifically proven that yellow decals can only add speed if you have a red "R"
decal also.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Jim Beam]

interesting pics contrasting the poor [notchy] design of the viscount spindle and the excellent
[radiused] design of the phil wood. the pw should last longer than the rest of the bike.

Tilyou1 wrote:
> I previously thanked this list for its generous help in connection with the broken crank axle on
> my Viscount.
>
> I also previously posted an update about the solution my LBS was pursuing -- namely, to replace
> the untapered uniquely Viscount BB with one by Phil Wood.
>
> The Phil Wood works. I have not determined yet whether, armed with this serious upgrade, I can now
> go dramatically faster.
>
> (however, I am already thrilled I did not have to try to thread the BB shell, which might be to
> thin with withstand it).
>
> Pix (in forensic detail) are available at NY Bikeworks, which did the job:
>
> http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html
>
> To admire (or quake) at the irrational level to which a Viscount fixation can ascend, check
>
> http://bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/viscountRCK.html
>
> http://bikecult.com/works/archive/viscnt.html
>
> Note, the use of yellow reflective tape on the seat tube had no appreciable affect on speed.
>
> Research continues.
>
> - Charles
>
> [email protected]

 

[Andrew Price]

"Tilyou1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> To admire (or quake) at the irrational level to which a Viscount fixation
can
> ascend, check
>
Absolutely off thread but here in Oz in the 1950's & 60's they used to sell a brand of cigarettes
with a big V on the packet called Viscount.

The jingle in the TV commercial (yes Victoria they used to be allowed once) went -

"Light up a Viscount, Light up a Viscount, You'll be so glad you did"

The add used to worry supporters of the aristocracy a touch; those supporters seem to have gone the
way of the smokers ...

Old marketing concepts are good for a chuckle - best, Andrew

 

[Bill Putnam]

[email protected] (Tilyou1) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I previously thanked this list for its generous help in connection with the broken crank axle on
> my Viscount.
...
> - Charles

Charles,

I would suggest you inspect your cranks on a regular basis so that you don't experience a failure
similar to the ones at

http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

A search of rec.bicycles.tech will bring up discussions of the problems associated with standard
aluminum cranks.

Bill Putnam

 

[Tim McNamara]

jim beam <[email protected]> writes:

> interesting pics contrasting the poor [notchy] design of the viscount spindle and the excellent
> [radiused] design of the phil wood. the pw should last longer than the rest of the bike.

My old Viscount had the exact same thing happen in 1984, at which time it was only 8 years old.
That BB spindle was a poor design thanks to those grooves. The PW spindle ought to outlast the
current owner...

 

[Tilyou1]

>I would suggest you inspect your cranks on a regular basis so that you don't experience a failure
>similar to the ones at
>
>http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
>
>A search of rec.bicycles.tech will bring up discussions of the problems associated with standard
>aluminum cranks.

Thanks, tho' I note that in my case the axle broke (or maybe more accurately the "spindle", which is
what your webpage seems to call it). My Viscount cranks are still okay, or appear to be okay.

Isn't a problem with aluminum that it does NOT give advance warning of failure? What, then, would be
the point of checking aluminum cranks?

- Charles

 

[Tim McNamara]

[email protected] (Tilyou1) writes:

>>I would suggest you inspect your cranks on a regular basis so that you don't experience a failure
>>similar to the ones at
>>
>>http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
>>
>>A search of rec.bicycles.tech will bring up discussions of the problems associated with standard
>>aluminum cranks.

Searching around that site also has pictures of broken welded tubular steel cranks. Given the choice
between trusting one-piece cold forged aluminum or a steel weld for this purpose, I'll take
"standard aluminum cranks" and-thank-you-very-much.

> Thanks, tho' I note that in my case the axle broke (or maybe more accurately the "spindle", which
> is what your webpage seems to call it). My Viscount cranks are still okay, or appear to be okay.
>
> Isn't a problem with aluminum that it does NOT give advance warning of failure? What, then, would
> be the point of checking aluminum cranks?

Small cracks are often visible long before the thing fails. If you look closely at the photos, you
can see discolored or shiny areas inside the breaks that are indiciative of having been there for a
while, slowly propogating through the metal. It's worth taking a look every so often around the
pedal eyes, the spindle holes and where the crank and spider come together. From that Web site, you
can see the most common places where failure occurs.

 

[Jim Adney]

On 21 Jan 2004 19:41:53 GMT [email protected] (Tilyou1) wrote:

>I previously thanked this list for its generous help in connection with the broken crank axle on my
>Viscount.
>
>I also previously posted an update about the solution my LBS was pursuing -- namely, to replace the
>untapered uniquely Viscount BB with one by Phil Wood.
>
>The Phil Wood works. I have not determined yet whether, armed with this serious upgrade, I can now
>go dramatically faster.
>
>(however, I am already thrilled I did not have to try to thread the BB shell, which might be to
>thin with withstand it).
>
>Pix (in forensic detail) are available at NY Bikeworks, which did the job:
>
>http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html

What holds the new bearings in the BB, and what keeps the axle from shifting sideways in use?

>http://bikecult.com/works/archive/viscnt.html
>
>Note, the use of yellow reflective tape on the seat tube had no appreciable affect on speed.
Noting the position of the saddle and the handlebars, I'd say this looks like a bike set up by
someone who wasn't really a rider....

Is that a Brooks Swallow saddle?

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[A Muzi]

> On 21 Jan 2004 19:41:53 GMT [email protected] (Tilyou1) wrote:
-snip->
>>http://bikecult.com/works/archive/viscnt.html

Jim Adney wrote:

> Is that a Brooks Swallow saddle?

The text says it is a Brooks Swift

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Tilyou1]

>>http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html
>
>What holds the new bearings in the BB, and what keeps the axle from shifting sideways in use?

Discipline.

(don't know -- I haven't tried 'er out yet) (don't the cranks hold it in? that, and the pressure of
the BB shell?).

>>http://bikecult.com/works/archive/viscnt.html
>>
>>Note, the use of yellow reflective tape on the seat tube had no appreciable affect on speed.
>Noting the position of the saddle and the handlebars, I'd say this looks like a bike set up by
>someone who wasn't really a rider....
>
>Is that a Brooks Swallow saddle?

ALMOST that extravagant, but not quite -- it's a Brooks Swift. On titanium rails (for their
antigravity properties).

I believe the Swallow was recently re-introduced http://www.wallbike.com/Products.html#5sad

- Charles

[email protected]

 

[Tim McNamara]

Jim Adney <[email protected]> writes:

> On 21 Jan 2004 19:41:53 GMT [email protected] (Tilyou1) wrote:
>
>>I previously thanked this list for its generous help in connection with the broken crank axle on
>>my Viscount.
>>
>>I also previously posted an update about the solution my LBS was pursuing -- namely, to replace
>>the untapered uniquely Viscount BB with one by Phil Wood.

<snip>

>>http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html
>
> What holds the new bearings in the BB, and what keeps the axle from shifting sideways in use?

The original bearings were press-fit into the BB shell, and it looks like the same was done here.
These shells are really too thin to safely thread (ISTR that they'd have to be threaded Italian,
too), so this or the Mavic BB which doesn't require threads are the best options. Looks like the BB
spindle is also press-fit- not optimal, but if it's tight enough it might stay put. Perhaps some
Loctite was used.

As far as setup goes, whatever's comfy is whatever's comfy. IMHO a "rider" sets his or her bike up
in the way that works best for them. I remember a bike magazine editor (Dan Joyce) with the goofiest
looking setup I'd ever seen in a bike mag- turned out he was recovering from a broken back.

 

[Jim Beam]

Tim McNamara wrote: <snip>
>
> The original bearings were press-fit into the BB shell, and it looks like the same was done here.
> These shells are really too thin to safely thread (ISTR that they'd have to be threaded Italian,
> too), so this or the Mavic BB which doesn't require threads are the best options. Looks like the
> BB spindle is also press-fit- not optimal, but if it's tight enough it might stay put. Perhaps
> some Loctite was used.

"interference fit" is fairly reliable - example: practically all automobile half shafts are held in
place with an interference fit. no need for glue.

jb

 

[John Thompson]

On 2004-01-22, Bill Putnam <[email protected]> wrote:

> I would suggest you inspect your cranks on a regular basis so that you don't experience a failure
> similar to the ones at
>
> http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

I don't see any Lambert/Viscount cranks in that collection...

The most significant failure mode for the Lambert/Viscount frames was the cast aluminum fork, which
the OP seems to have prudently replaced already.

--

-John ([email protected])

 

[Tim McNamara]

John Thompson <[email protected]> writes:

> On 2004-01-22, Bill Putnam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I would suggest you inspect your cranks on a regular basis so that you don't experience a failure
>> similar to the ones at
>>
>> http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
>
> I don't see any Lambert/Viscount cranks in that collection...

No, but there is a TA; the Trusty/Lambert/Viscount crank was a copy of the TA Cycltouriste with an
aesthetically different chainring.

> The most significant failure mode for the Lambert/Viscount frames was the cast aluminum fork,
> which the OP seems to have prudently replaced already.

Well, yes, that is the most dangerous failure mode. The BB spindle was also infamous for breaking,
thanks to the circlip grooves located right at a high stress point- this can be quite dangerous as
it is usually the left side that breaks and can throw the rider into the path of cars and trucks (in
countries that drive on the right).

Another well-known failure point was the seat tube right above the fillet joint at the BB shell.
Nonetheless I have fond memories of my Viscount Pro. I rode many many miles with the Fork of Death
(without failure despite a head-on collision with a daydreaming cyclist on a bike path), a cracked
seat tube, and eventually cannibalized it after the BB spindle snapped. I still have the derailleurs
and shifters.