Debate in Westminster hall about Road Fatalities

[Ian Smith]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, raisethe <[email protected]> wrote:
> x-no-archive:On 13 Dec, 00:36, JNugent
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It means I shan't be taking lessons in usenet posting from anyone
> > posting via the web.
>
> Yes, I got that bit, but what is it about posting directly onto a
> google group that has ****led you? Surely those using newsreaders are
> similarly inconvenienced by lazy snippers, or am I missing something?

Google now is much like AOL then.

In general, people using google groups tend to be less likely to stick
around and form any sort of community. They are more likely to post a
question and never show up again, more likely to post a question that
even a few moment's effort on their own part would answer, more likely
to post rubbish and more likely to get arsey if any of this is pointed
out to them.

I've seen it claimed that the ratio of posts originating from google
can be correlated to the community feeling and civility of a group.
While I don't think it's been studied properly, it would certainly not
surprise me to discover that it's true.

Strictly, I don't think it's exclusively google's fault - I think it's
pretty much any web-based forum or interface that encourages this -
witness the dross that we get here from cycling forums. google is the
one that stands out only because it's the one with the most users.
That's doubly reinforcing - having the most users, it probably also
attracts the most naive users too.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Pete Biggs]

Nigel Cliffe wrote:

> If using Outlook Express or Thunderbird, I recommend not using the
> same one as email program as well. Too much risk of posting with
> your email address in clear as sender !

I'm not sure what you mean. It's easy to use different email addresses for
your mail and news accounts with OE. Once set, you can't get them mixed up
by accident.

> Also, recommend the plug-in for Outlook Express called Quote-Fix; it
> auto-fixes a few problems which Outlook Express tends to insert into
> news postings.

Seconded.

~PB

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>
>> If using Outlook Express or Thunderbird, I recommend not using the
>> same one as email program as well. Too much risk of posting with
>> your email address in clear as sender !
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. It's easy to use different email
> addresses for your mail and news accounts with OE. Once set, you
> can't get them mixed up by accident.

I've managed to do it. Hence my comment.
And I know that in theory one can have multiple accounts (my thunderbird
email has four covering home, business and two hobby sites).




--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Ekul Namsob]

JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
>
> > JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>Ekul Namsob wrote:
> >>>JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> >>>>>[email protected] (Ekul Namsob)typed
> >
> >>>>>>Before I passed my test, there would have been no occasion on which I
> >>>>>>would have wanted to buy fuel when a fully-licensed driver was not
> >>>>>>accompanying me.
>
> >>>>[to Ekul Namsob:]
>
> >>>>So all an unlicensed driver has to do is enlist the ephemeral and
> >>>>temporary assistance of any old licensed driver while he fills up.
>
> >>>To which most drivers' response would be 'no'.
>
> >>Why would it?
>
> > Because most drivers have no good reason to help an unlicensed driver
> > buy fuel and have better things to do. For instance, I'd rather be
> > cycling or rambling on uk.rec.cycling.
>
> Most people have a general incentive to assist people they know as
> friends/neighbours or relatives. I wouldn't hesitate.

Despite living round the corner from a petrol station, I never meet
friends, neighbours or relatives there. I would happily help them.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[Pete Biggs]

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote:
>> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>>
>>> If using Outlook Express or Thunderbird, I recommend not using the
>>> same one as email program as well. Too much risk of posting with
>>> your email address in clear as sender !
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean. It's easy to use different email
>> addresses for your mail and news accounts with OE. Once set, you
>> can't get them mixed up by accident.
>
> I've managed to do it. Hence my comment.

I would be interested to know how you managed to do it.

Thanks.

~PB

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>> Pete Biggs wrote:
>>> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>>>
>>>> If using Outlook Express or Thunderbird, I recommend not using the
>>>> same one as email program as well. Too much risk of posting with
>>>> your email address in clear as sender !
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what you mean. It's easy to use different email
>>> addresses for your mail and news accounts with OE. Once set, you
>>> can't get them mixed up by accident.
>>
>> I've managed to do it. Hence my comment.
>
> I would be interested to know how you managed to do it.


Sorry, a long time ago, and I forget how/what I did. I know a posting left
with the wrong settings and I said *?!*. I then decided to separate my
email and newsgroup tools to stop it happening again, and have had them
separated for ages.


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[David Damerell]

Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>If using Outlook Express or Thunderbird, I recommend not using the same one
>as email program as well. Too much risk of posting with your email address
>in clear as sender !

Which, of course, is not a problem at all if things are sensibly arranged.

>Also, recommend the plug-in for Outlook Express called Quote-Fix; it
>auto-fixes a few problems which Outlook Express tends to insert into news
>postings.

Although it can't help with pilot error - for example, including the
entire previous article untrimmed; and at best it causes users to merely
sometimes post completely mangled articles instead of always.

>OE's only major shortcoming is lack of very sophisticated filtering for
>heavily trolled newsgroups.

And its susceptibility to simple tricks like;

begin explanation of why MSOE is ****

He won't see this.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Tuesday, December.

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>> OE's only major shortcoming is lack of very sophisticated filtering
>> for heavily trolled newsgroups.
>
> And its susceptibility to simple tricks like;
>
> begin explanation of why MSOE is ****
>
> He won't see this.


Please explain your little joke.


- Nigel ( who thinks MSOE is fine for modest reading of text newsgroups).


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>>> OE's only major shortcoming is lack of very sophisticated filtering
>>> for heavily trolled newsgroups.
>>
>> And its susceptibility to simple tricks like;
>>
>> begin explanation of why MSOE is ****
>>
>> He won't see this.
>
>Please explain your little joke.

http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#beginattach

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <Vyv*[email protected]>, David Damerell
[email protected] says...

> And its susceptibility to simple tricks like;
>
> begin explanation of why MSOE is ****
>
> He won't see this.
>
I thought they'd fixed that now.

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Nigel Cliffe
> wrote:
>> David Damerell wrote:
>>> Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>>>> OE's only major shortcoming is lack of very sophisticated filtering
>>>> for heavily trolled newsgroups.
>>>
>>> And its susceptibility to simple tricks like;
>>>
>>> begin explanation of why MSOE is ****
>>>
>>> He won't see this.
>>
>> Please explain your little joke.
>
> http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#beginattach


Ah, I see. DD's attempting to exploit a bug fixed ages ago, so it displayed
correctly on my copy of OE. Perhaps the lesson is keeping up to date with
bug fixes, particularly if trying to exploit them.


I still fail to understand his general point, except that a number of people
have a pathological anti-Microsoft stance on all software.



(btw. I think my original identity muddle which led to me separating email
and newsgroup clients may have been under MacOS 9.something or even 8.6)


- Nigel



--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[David Damerell]

Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>>http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#beginattach
>Ah, I see. DD's attempting to exploit a bug fixed ages ago, so it displayed
>correctly on my copy of OE. Perhaps the lesson is keeping up to date with
>bug fixes, particularly if trying to exploit them.

Cor. Microsoft said for many years they were never going to fix that one.

>I still fail to understand his general point,

MSOE's still going to be full of bugs, given the level of incompetence
that one exhibited. Also, it seems (albeit no more than Google, these
days) to be strongly correlated with mangled articles and poor posting
style. For example, posting the entire previous article untrimmed.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Wednesday, December.

 

[raisethe]

x-no-archive:On 13 Dec, 17:45, JNugent wrote:

> raisethe wrote:

> > what is it about posting directly onto a
> > google group that has ****led you?

>
> It's the way that the thread becomes jumbled (for the Google poster as
> well as others) and all the extraneous "see quoted material/text"
> stuff (which could/should be trimmed out by the poster, since it
> serves absolutely no function outside Google).

Right, I see.

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <T-j*[email protected]>, David Damerell
[email protected] says...

> MSOE's still going to be full of bugs, given the level of incompetence
> that one exhibited. Also, it seems (albeit no more than Google, these
> days) to be strongly correlated with mangled articles and poor posting
> style. For example, posting the entire previous article untrimmed.
>
That's just because they're the most readily available access to usenet,
so are more likely to be used by those who don't know any better, or
can't be bothered.

 

[raisethe]

x-no-archive:JNugent wrote:

>
> Thunderbird will work with Vista, and it's free.
>
> <http://www.mozilla.org>

Thank you for the link, this message has been sent using Thunderbird. I
hope it looks better to you. I'm not sure if its as easy to view
messages as it is on google, but I will have to play with the available
options.

>
> But how do you send email? You may well already use Outlook Express,
> which also works (quite well) as a newsreader.

I don't use OE because I like to access my emails when I am away, so
keep them on my email provider's server. I attempted to use it as a
newsreader, but it doesn't open on my pc.

 

[Pete Biggs]

raisethe wrote:
> x-no-archive:JNugent wrote:
>
>>
>> Thunderbird will work with Vista, and it's free.
>>
>> <http://www.mozilla.org>
>
> Thank you for the link, this message has been sent using Thunderbird.
> I hope it looks better to you. I'm not sure if its as easy to view
> messages as it is on google, but I will have to play with the
> available options.
>
>>
>> But how do you send email? You may well already use Outlook Express,
>> which also works (quite well) as a newsreader.
>
> I don't use OE because I like to access my emails when I am away, so
> keep them on my email provider's server. I attempted to use it as a
> newsreader, but it doesn't open on my pc.

OE has an option to leave copies of emails on the server.

~PB

 

[raisethe]

x-no-archive:On 15 Dec, 17:12, "Pete Biggs" <
>
> OE has an option to leave copies of emails on the server.
>
>

I now have Windows Mail up and running. Where is the option to leave
copies of emails on the server? I've had a good look, but can't see
anything.

Thanks

 

[Tim Hall]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:28:49 -0800 (PST), raisethe
<[email protected]> wrote:

>x-no-archive:On 15 Dec, 17:12, "Pete Biggs" <
>>
>> OE has an option to leave copies of emails on the server.
>>
>>
>
>I now have Windows Mail up and running. Where is the option to leave
>copies of emails on the server? I've had a good look, but can't see
>anything.
>

In Windows Mail choose Tools >Accounts, click the account name, click
Properties, click the Advanced tab.



--

Tim

fast and gripping, non pompous, glossy and credible.

 

[raisethe]

x-no-archive:Tim Hall wrote:

>
> In Windows Mail choose Tools >Accounts, click the account name, click
> Properties, click the Advanced tab.
>
>
got it, thanks

 

[JNugent]

raisethe wrote:

> x-no-archive:JNugent wrote:

>> Thunderbird will work with Vista, and it's free.

>> <http://www.mozilla.org>

> Thank you for the link, this message has been sent using Thunderbird. I
> hope it looks better to you.

Much better.

> I'm not sure if its as easy to view
> messages as it is on google, but I will have to play with the available
> options.

If you want to retain a post you have already read, you may need to
"mark it as unread" using right-click. That's a disadvantage, but all
programs have unique "features". There are ways of avoiding that, but
they too have their drawbacks.

>> But how do you send email? You may well already use Outlook Express,
>> which also works (quite well) as a newsreader.

> I don't use OE because I like to access my emails when I am away, so
> keep them on my email provider's server. I attempted to use it as a
> newsreader, but it doesn't open on my pc.

That's surprising. Perhaps the installation has become corrupt.