Decent Hybrid - advice please



S

Saint

Guest
Hi

I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
with a higher degree of comfort.

A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting it
appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but the 401
(having front suspension which I don't really want) are a
little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone recommend
a good, general purpose as described above hybrid? Budget is
about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch). Would appreciate
views on the Discovery range plus also stuff like Ridgeback
and Specialized - in addition to others considered
meritworthy.

Thanks

S
 
Saint wrote:
> Hi
>
> I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
> for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
> bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
> with a higher degree of comfort.
>
> A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
> satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
> which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting
> it appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but
> the 401 (having front suspension which I don't really
> want) are a little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.
>
> Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone
> recommend a good, general purpose as described above
> hybrid? Budget is about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch).
> Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
> stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
> others considered meritworthy.

A friend has a Ridgeback £200 quidder, more town bike than
hybrid. It weighs a bit more than my Giant hardtail, has 7
gears instead of 28, but compared to my Giant on semi
slicks, it climbs like mad. Part of it must be down to the
lower rolling resistance of the tyres on the Ridgeback, but
the lack of suspension forks IMO makes a big difference.
 
I have a Dawes 301 from a couple of years back. I bought it
for cycle touring / camping. Now the bike has going on 1600
miles on it and running fine.

The bigest problem is the straight handle bars, but bar ends
sort that for £15, and its worth canging the saddles at
least on the range 2 years back.

All round it is a good strong bike. I didn't fancy
suspension, but i've not really riden a bike with it so
don't know what i'm missing.

Gearing is fine, but if anything the frame is a bit on the
heavy side.

cheers

p

Saint wrote:
> Hi
>
> I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
> for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
> bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
> with a higher degree of comfort.
>
> A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
> satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
> which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting
> it appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but
> the 401 (having front suspension which I don't really
> want) are a little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.
>
> Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone
> recommend a good, general purpose as described above
> hybrid? Budget is about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch).
> Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
> stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
> others considered meritworthy.
>
> Thanks
>
> S
 
The Specialized Sirrus range is GREAT! You should be able to find one within your budget. I used to have a Sirrus Sport (approx £500) and it was fast, light and comfortable.

Great value for money.
 
I'm very happy with my Marin Kentfield. Paid £300 in March this year with rack & 'puter thrown in.
Only done about 250 contry lane commuter miles on it but it is still crisp.
Sort of reasonably comfy but I am going down the harder saddle route to try and stop numbing.
I have no experience of other hybrids but this does what it is supposed to and is still fun.

======================

19:45 roads will be still....
 
Originally posted by Saint
Hi

I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
with a higher degree of comfort.

A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting it
appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but the 401
(having front suspension which I don't really want) are a
little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone recommend
a good, general purpose as described above hybrid? Budget is
about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch). Would appreciate
views on the Discovery range plus also stuff like Ridgeback
and Specialized - in addition to others considered
meritworthy.

Thanks

S

I think we need to look a bit more closely at what your needs are before deciding what type of bike would suit.

"Hybrid" means different things to different people but the usual definition is:
- Road Frame
- 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)
- Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
- Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel

If I have got you right, you want something for road use, not built for speed but still fairly light and comfortable for longer rides.

Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
- Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what you want
- 700c wheels - these are really built for speed, including "fast-touring" or audax. If speed is not important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big fat tyres.
- Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of personal choice but drop bars do give more riding positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides may turn out to be less comfortable.
- Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said, most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

If you can have a think about that lot and them come back, we should be able to home in on the right kind of bike.

Ian
 
wheelsgoround wrote:

> "Hybrid" means different things to different people but
> the usual definition is:
> - Road Frame

I wonder how many people could tell the difference between a
"road frame" and an "MTB frame" where used to trundle about
town. If you're using them in performance places, maybe, but
for trundling about town I suspect there's rather less
difference than a lot of people might think. After all, one
of the great things about the diamond frame is its
flexibility in a variety or roles.

> - 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)

Quite a lot have 26"

> - Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
> - Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel

I think there are increasingly more with hub gears as time
goes by. ICBW and have no hard data but my impression is
that as time marches on the many more of the UK bike buying
public are finally coming to realise that sporty looks and
cool sounding specs are not necessarily the same as most fit
for utilitarian purpose.

> Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
> - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what
> you want

see above

> - 700c wheels - these are really built for speed,
> including "fast- touring" or audax. If speed is not
> important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be
> stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big
> fat tyres.

A bit like the frame, I don't think this will make nearly as
much difference as a lot of people like to think. Yes, all
else being equal 700c will have slightly lower rolling
resistance, but frankly you'll make far, far, far more
difference with choice of tyres. Note that Moultons have set
speed records "despite" their wee wheels. A few years ago
I'd have been loathe to consider a machine for the road
without 700c wheels, but after some actual experience of
smaller wheels I'm reasonably convinced that sales of 700c
owe more to perception than reality. 26" aren't much slower,
especially if you put on fast tyres like Stelvios, but they
are stronger and suit a greater range of rider sizes. If I
bought an upright diamond frame for utility trundling now
I'd take 26" wheels rather than 700c if all else was equal,
and with the right tyres I wouldn't get left behind on it if
I wanted to put my foot down.

> - Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of
> personal choice but drop bars do give more riding
> positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions
> (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides
> may turn out to be less comfortable.

This is true, but OTOH drop bars do take some getting used
to and the "more positions" thing only becomes relevant on
fairly long rides, especially if you've got a more upright
position with more weight on the saddle rather than on the
bars. Like 700c wheels, I wouldn't ride on roads on anything
but drops for years. More recent practical experience of
actually riding flat bars for utility jobs have enlightened
me that I was being a bit precious about my personal
definition of a "proper bike".

> - Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said,
> most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

On a utility hack hub gears might make a lot more sense than
a derailleur. It's less about sheer number of gears than are
the ones you've got the right ones. I have 3 on my urban
hack bike ranging from quite low to moderate. It's easy to
spin out down hills but trundling round town I'm happy to
let gravity do the work, and 3 is enough even though Dundee
comes fitted with wide ranging hills as standard...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
>wheelsgoround wrote:

>> Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
>> - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is
>> what you want

For me the distinction between on-road and off-road is more
fuzzy than most people here seem to take it. I have used my
hybrid mainly for hacks in and around Amsterdam, but that
included usually a fair amount of poorly paved surfaces:
roadworks with temporary bricks layed out, tarmac cycle path
with tree roots growing under it, road with uneven concrete
slabs, snow and slush in winter, the odd driveway to a
farmhouse. And on holidays we tended to stay on the roads
but some of these were rather bumpy (especially when foreign
maps had different ideas about what a "road" is supposed to
mean - anything driveable by a tractor in some cases)

And currently: I don't consider myself to be cycling off-
road but the lane to our house is steeper and bumpier than
the sort of off-road most people do in Tentsmuir forest...

Roos
 
<snip>
>
>I think we need to look a bit more closely at what your
>needs are before deciding what type of bike would suit.

OK - I appreciate the help.
>
>"Hybrid" means different things to different people but the
>usual definition is:
> - Road Frame
> - 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)
> - Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
> - Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel
>
>If I have got you right, you want something for road use,
>not built for speed but still fairly light and comfortable
>for longer rides.

Yes as long as it's not an old tug which weighs a ton. I
don't want to race or set any speed records - this is not
its purpose and aI already have a road bike in the Scott for
that. I want to use this for slower, maybe longer rides.
This may include terrain like canal paths and the like but
not off road in the MTB sense.
>
>Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
> - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what
> you want

See above - off road-ish would be more appropriate.

> - 700c wheels - these are really built for speed,
> including "fast- touring" or audax. If speed is not
> important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be
> stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big
> fat tyres.
> - Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of
> personal choice but drop bars do give more riding
> positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions
> (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides
> may turn out to be less comfortable.

Yes I want straight bars - definitely not drops. My Scott
has straight ones and I have bar ends fitted and am
comfortable with that positon and set up.

> - Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said,
> most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

I want a triple as where I live can be quite hilly and I am
a lazy bugger. ;-)
>
>If you can have a think about that lot and them come back,
>we should be able to home in on the right kind of bike.
>
> Ian

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
On 21 Jun 2004 13:36:13 GMT, Roos Eisma <[email protected]> wrote:

>>wheelsgoround wrote:
>
>>> Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
>>> - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is
>>> what you want
>
>For me the distinction between on-road and off-road is
>more fuzzy than most people here seem to take it. I have
>used my hybrid mainly for hacks in and around Amsterdam,
>but that included usually a fair amount of poorly paved
>surfaces: roadworks with temporary bricks layed out,
>tarmac cycle path with tree roots growing under it, road
>with uneven concrete slabs, snow and slush in winter, the
>odd driveway to a farmhouse. And on holidays we tended to
>stay on the roads but some of these were rather bumpy
>(especially when foreign maps had different ideas about
>what a "road" is supposed to mean - anything driveable by
>a tractor in some cases)
>
>And currently: I don't consider myself to be cycling off-
>road but the lane to our house is steeper and bumpier than
>the sort of off-road most people do in Tentsmuir forest...
>
>Roos

Together with general roads near where I live your above
description summarises nicely what I mean when I try to
describe what I want a second bike for. Definitely not off
raoding in the MTB sense but to go to places I wouldn't ever
ever take my Scott.

I hope I am making sense.

On another note I went to speak to my LBS today as I
understood they stock Ridgeback Hybrids which I have been
advised to consider. They have just stopped doing them and
now only do the Dawes Discovery range of hybrid. They look
nice too but I genuinely do not know anything about them.

Funny thing was how less friendly the LBS People became when
I said I may have to go elsewhere if I plump for a
RIdgeback.

Cheers

S
 
Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the distinction between road frames and off-road frames.

Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the "chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty chunky these days) the main characteristic of the MTB frame is the high bottom bracket and resulting reduced seat tube length. This is fine if you are hopping over boulders and logs but not necessary for the high street or cycle paths & canal towpaths.

Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
- 26in wheels
- Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range - pricey)
- Straight Bars
- Frame - open-minded
- Mudguards ? I would recommend them
- Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility

Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily rectified

Comments anyone?
 
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:51:43 GMT, wheelsgoround
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the
>distinction between road frames and off-road frames.
>
>Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the
>"chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty chunky
>these days) the main characteristic of the MTB frame is the
>high bottom bracket and resulting reduced seat tube length.
>This is fine if you are hopping over boulders and logs but
>not necessary for the high street or cycle paths & canal
>towpaths.
>
>Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
> - 26in wheels
> - Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range -
> pricey)
> - Straight Bars
> - Frame - open-minded
> - Mudguards ? I would recommend them
> - Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility
>
>Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your
>budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with
>mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily
>rectified
>
>Comments anyone?

That's one of the ones I have been looking at and, for the
intended purpose, it looks like a nice bike although the
601 looks slightly better given it's Deore mechs and
lighter frame.

I'd really welcome comments from Discovery riders and also
Ridgeback Rapide series riders to get a feel for the VFM of
the bikes.

Thanks to all for help so far.

Saint
 
Saint wrote: <snip>
> Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
> stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
> others considered meritworthy.
>
> Thanks
>
> S

I am no expert, but I recently got back into the saddle
after a 15 year absence. I got a Ridgeback hybrid-type of
bike - the Rapide Velocity (http://tinyurl.com/38tbk). I
have not really taken it out much due to the arrival of
sonandheir, but have found it very pleasant indeed.

HTH,

Patrick

--
Patrick Mullin,

Email <first name> at AuroraDigitalis dot com
 
in message <j%[email protected]>, wheelsgoround
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the
> distinction between road frames and off-road frames.
>
> Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the
> "chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty
> chunky these days) the main characteristic of the MTB
> frame is the high bottom bracket and resulting reduced
> seat tube length. This is fine if you are hopping over
> boulders and logs but not necessary for the high street or
> cycle paths & canal towpaths.
>
> Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
> - 26in wheels
> - Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range -
> pricey)
> - Straight Bars
> - Frame - open-minded
> - Mudguards ? I would recommend them
> - Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility
>
> Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your
> budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with
> mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily
> rectified

Look at the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op's Revolution Courier.
It's worth considering and excellent value for money.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; Our modern industrial
economy takes a mountain covered with trees, ;; lakes,
running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey
 
Saint wrote:

> I want a triple as where I live can be quite hilly and I
> am a lazy bugger. ;-)

That applies to me too. My tourer does have a triple but my
freight bike has no front changer and an 8 speed rear and
can lug 50 Kg of coal up fair sized hills, and my folder has
a 3 speed hub and still gets me round a hilly town. If
you're not in a hurry (and it seems you're not) then as long
as the bottom gear is low enough then a 1 x 8 or a hub gear
costs less (or effectively means you spend the money on more
useful things) and requires less maintenance both for gears
and chain.

Another possibility to consider would be the SRAM Dualdrive,
which has a rear derailleur mounted on a three speed hub so
you get the same sort of range as a front triple but you can
change the hub when you're still (useful at lights and
junctions) and have the maintenance advantages of a hub.
Slightly less efficient, I'm guessing, but I think it would
suit a trundler /much/ better than a triple front
derailleur. Roos has one on her serious new tourer and has
expressed no regrets as yet.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:16:19 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Another possibility to consider would be the SRAM
>Dualdrive, which has a rear derailleur mounted on a three
>speed hub so you get the same sort of range as a front
>triple but you can change the hub when you're still (useful
>at lights and junctions) and have the maintenance
>advantages of a hub. Slightly less efficient, I'm guessing,
>but I think it would suit a trundler /much/ better than a
>triple front derailleur. Roos has one on her serious new
>tourer and has expressed no regrets as yet.
>

Another benefit is that you get to use all the gears - no
worrying about big-big or small-small chain line problems.

Tim
--
For those who have trouble distinguishing, cynicsm, sarcasm,
humour etc, try mentally inserting smilies thoughout my post
until it either matches what you'd like to read, or what
you'd expect me to write.

(Jon Senior urc)
 

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