Demise of commuting cycling



J

Jonathan Amery

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Colin Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Jonathan Amery" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:snn*[email protected]
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Nick Maclaren <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> >In Cambridge, typically 15-30% of the way across a cycle lane.

>>
>> A fairly retiring road-position for a single cyclist, then?

>
>If the cycle lane is 1m wide and 30cm is useless, I'm afraid that I
>physically don't fit in the remainder.
>

I should klike to hope that you usually cycle at least 50cm from the
road edge in a 1m cycle lane -- which should have you fairly central,
and fitting in the lane (assuming, of course, you aren't more than 1m
wide!).

Granted it would be better to have proper-width cycle lines though.

--
Jonathan Amery. [Mierin] said she had found a new source for the One Power.
##### [Lanfear] was the most beautiful woman Min had ever seen...
#######__o "Lews Therin was mine, he is mine, and he will be mine, forever.
#######'/ I give him into your charge, to keep for me until I come."
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
Nick Maclaren wrote:
>
> In Cambridge, typically 15-30% of the way across a cycle lane.
>


I ignore cycle lanes and position myself on the road. Where some
non-cycling numpty from the council has decided to paint a white line is
of no interest to me.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
>Nick Maclaren wrote:
>>
>> In Cambridge, typically 15-30% of the way across a cycle lane.

>
>I ignore cycle lanes and position myself on the road. Where some
>non-cycling numpty from the council has decided to paint a white line is
>of no interest to me.


Well, I am flabberghasted that you have not observed yourself being
assaulted by motorists, then.

I used to do that, and was assaulted several times a week. As I
said, I was also deliberately run into 3 times in a year (admittedly,
all by StageRoach buses, but in previous years there had been
Panther cars and others). The last time was serious enough that I
had to choose between survival and cycling.

Of course, the police were largely to blame in that :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
M

Mark Thompson

Guest
> I used to do that, and was assaulted several times a week. As I
> said, I was also deliberately run into 3 times in a year


Might be worth getting some training (if available) to check you're doing
things 'right'. 3 times run into is bad, but add the assaults and it
suggests something that you're doing is really pissing people off.
 
M

Mike Causer

Guest
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:26:33 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:

> Might be worth getting some training (if available) to check you're doing
> things 'right'. 3 times run into is bad, but add the assaults and it
> suggests something that you're doing is really pissing people off.


I wouldn't say he's /really/ pi ohhh, you mean /cycle/ training?








(Note for uk.rec.cyclists: this is a regular feature on cam.transport)


Mike
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark Thompson <[email protected]*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote:
>> I used to do that, and was assaulted several times a week. As I
>> said, I was also deliberately run into 3 times in a year

>
>Might be worth getting some training (if available) to check you're doing
>things 'right'. 3 times run into is bad, but add the assaults and it
>suggests something that you're doing is really pissing people off.


You don't know the background. That would have been a complete and
utter waste of time. I know why I was pissing people off, and it
was because I was riding according to Cyclecraft on a road where
that prevents motor vehicles (especially the unspeakable StageRoach
buses) from passing as if I were not there.

And the REASON that I was riding 1-2 metres out from the kerb was
because I had to. I have next to no middle-ear function, balance
by sight and touch, and cannot recover from being knocked off balance
at speed. In particular, it is catastrophic for me to clip a pedal
on the kerb, ride of the edge of the metalling, ride into a sunken
gutter, get clipped by a pedestrian stepping out, etc. That means
leaving plenty of room.

In over a decade of cycling daily, I had effectively no accidents,
did not change my riding style, and the assault rate built up as
forcing cyclists into the gutter and off the road became policy.
I was one of the last remaining non-racing, on-road cyclists on that
route. The final straw was the unspeakable Trumpington Road scheme
for the Park and Ride, combined with a clear police policy of
tolerating StageRoach drivers using their vehicles as weapons
against cyclists.

Anyway, I am now a car commuter - a BIG car commuter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
A

Ara

Guest
Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mark Thompson <[email protected]*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote:
> >> I used to do that, and was assaulted several times a week. As I
> >> said, I was also deliberately run into 3 times in a year

> >
> >Might be worth getting some training (if available) to check you're doing
> >things 'right'. 3 times run into is bad, but add the assaults and it
> >suggests something that you're doing is really pissing people off.

>
> And the REASON that I was riding 1-2 metres out from the kerb was
> because I had to. I have next to no middle-ear function, balance
> by sight and touch, and cannot recover from being knocked off balance
> at speed. In particular, it is catastrophic for me to clip a pedal
> on the kerb, ride of the edge of the metalling, ride into a sunken
> gutter, get clipped by a pedestrian stepping out, etc. That means
> leaving plenty of room.


It's sad and everything but if you have no balance, *should* you be
riding a bike in traffic? To me it seems irresponsible on your part.

Ara (cyclist)
 
D

dave

Guest
Ara wrote:
> Nick Maclaren wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Mark Thompson <[email protected]*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I used to do that, and was assaulted several times a week. As I
>>>>said, I was also deliberately run into 3 times in a year
>>>
>>>Might be worth getting some training (if available) to check you're doing
>>>things 'right'. 3 times run into is bad, but add the assaults and it
>>>suggests something that you're doing is really pissing people off.

>>
>>And the REASON that I was riding 1-2 metres out from the kerb was
>>because I had to. I have next to no middle-ear function, balance
>>by sight and touch, and cannot recover from being knocked off balance
>>at speed. In particular, it is catastrophic for me to clip a pedal
>>on the kerb, ride of the edge of the metalling, ride into a sunken
>>gutter, get clipped by a pedestrian stepping out, etc. That means
>>leaving plenty of room.

>
>
> It's sad and everything but if you have no balance, *should* you be
> riding a bike in traffic? To me it seems irresponsible on your part.
>
> Ara (cyclist)
>

Hmmmm What happened to being impressed that he can ride without
balance? But if you ask me he should be driving. In a 4WD. Along with
all the other unbalanced people ;)

Just kidding Nick. You keep riding mate.

Dave
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Ara <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>It's sad and everything but if you have no balance, *should* you be
>riding a bike in traffic? To me it seems irresponsible on your part.


It's sad and everything but if you have no comprehension, *should* you be
replying to Usenet postings? To me it seems irresponsible on your part.

I suggest that you reread what I posted. It is a common myth that
balance is entirely a matter of middle-ear function - it is a
combination of that, sight and touch. That is what I said.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
M

Mark Thompson

Guest
> It's sad and everything but if you have no balance, *should* you be
> riding a bike in traffic? To me it seems irresponsible on your part.


Bloody impressive thobut it's a perfect excuse for a trike, a recumbent
trike. With high end shiny bits all over the drivetrain.

If a significant minority of people were getting irate at not being able to
get past, perhaps pulling in more frequently would have helped. I do it
when dawdling along - delays me by, ooooh, seconds. To them, not aware of
your condition, you were presumably being a complete git and doing it
deliberately.

p.s. I'd probably come off too if I brushed a ped or a car door.
 
E

Espen Koht

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

> I suggest that you reread what I posted. It is a common myth that
> balance is entirely a matter of middle-ear function - it is a
> combination of that, sight and touch.


What about proprioception? Is it purely a combination of traditional
senses or a sense of its own?
 
J

Jonathan Amery

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Nick Maclaren <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Nick Maclaren wrote:
>>>
>>> In Cambridge, typically 15-30% of the way across a cycle lane.

>>
>>I ignore cycle lanes and position myself on the road. Where some
>>non-cycling numpty from the council has decided to paint a white line is
>>of no interest to me.

>
>Well, I am flabberghasted that you have not observed yourself being
>assaulted by motorists, then.
>

This is also my approach and I have never been assaulted on the
road. I have witnessed one of my friends being assaulted on the road,
by a Stagecoach vehicle, and later testified in court about it.

--
Jonathan D. Amery, http://www.pick.ucam.org/~jdamery/ #####
"Oh, my God," Senji said again. "Don't keep saying that, you o__#######
don't even know who your God is." "But you will Senji, and once \'#######
you have met him you will follow Him all the days of your life" - D. Eddings
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Nick Maclaren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>
> And the REASON that I was riding 1-2 metres out from the kerb was
> because I had to. I have next to no middle-ear function, balance
> by sight and touch, and cannot recover from being knocked off balance
> at speed. In particular, it is catastrophic for me to clip a pedal
> on the kerb, ride of the edge of the metalling, ride into a sunken
> gutter, get clipped by a pedestrian stepping out, etc. That means
> leaving plenty of room.


A suggestion. A recumbent trike, see http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/

I have an Ice T (2004 model) and when I'm riding that as opposed to my
'normal' bike, the difference in attitude from motorists is distinctly
noticeable. I am given a much wider berth by passing motorists. Motorists
wave friendly waves: they wait behind until safe to overtake and when they
do then overtake, they smile and wave cheerily. On narrow roads where on my
'normal' bike has been known to be rendered invisible to the retinas of
oncoming motorists, I find they willingly pull in to the side of the road,
wave me on and smile as I pass by. The difference in driver attitude is so
noticeable, I refer to my 'bent trike as my smilemobile. Even white-van-man
is known to wave and smile!

Also the added benefit of exceptionally good stability. On slippy roads the
'bent is much more stable than a 'normal' bike - my teenage son uses it to
cycle commute to college & back in such weather. They are also incredible
fun!

On the down side, it is heavier than my 'normal' bikes, so I am slower on
it. and you use the muscles in your legs in a different way to being on an
upright. I refer to it as getting used to my 'bent legs.

Put it this way - if I had to get rid of all my steeds except one, I'd keep
the recumbent trike.

If you fancy trying a recumbent trike out - DTek at Little Thetford, near
Ely in Cambridgeshire. As well as new recumbents, he has second-hand ones
for sale too. And he will let you try out loads of them in order for you to
decide if a 'bent is the way to go. Or, if you happen to ever come up to
Norfolk, you are welcome to try out mine.

Cheers, helen s
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <ehk20-3D429A.0[email protected]>,
Espen Koht <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
>
>> I suggest that you reread what I posted. It is a common myth that
>> balance is entirely a matter of middle-ear function - it is a
>> combination of that, sight and touch.

>
>What about proprioception? Is it purely a combination of traditional
>senses or a sense of its own?


I believe that it is essentially a combination of those three senses,
possibly plus a bit of echolocation and infra red sensing in confined
areas and near people/animals or hot/cold objects.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>
>
>A suggestion. A recumbent trike, see http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/


Sigh. I thought of that, but it obviously wouldn't help. As I posted,
I had an essentially zero accident rate (including even trivial ones),
which indicates that I could compensate for my loss of middle-ear
function. And a tricycle of any sort would INCREASE the conflict
(being wider and not able to use the so-called cycle path on that
road), which would almost certainly increase the rate of assault.

What is the betting that a StageRoach driver wouldn't run right over
me on a recumbant tricycle, and then claim that it was unlit and he
didn't see me? Lights tend not to work after being squashed, so it
would be very hard to disprove.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
R

Richard

Guest
Nick Maclaren wrote:

> function. And a tricycle of any sort would INCREASE the conflict
> (being wider and not able to use the so-called cycle path on that
> road), which would almost certainly increase the rate of assault.


Hmmm. You don't see many assaults against the drivers of those very
wide, very slow Armored Personnel Carriers - er, at least not in this
country. Now there's a thought. And if your licence is as old as
mine, it'll be a provisional licence for tracked vehicles...

> What is the betting that a StageRoach driver wouldn't run right over
> me on a recumbant tricycle, and then claim that it was unlit and he
> didn't see me? Lights tend not to work after being squashed, so it
> would be very hard to disprove.


Use filament lights; you can tell whether these were on or off at the
time of the crash, provided the filament can be found. :cool: Not a great
deal of comfort, mind.

I've found that drivers give me plenty of space when I look vaguely like
a policeman. Odd, that.

R.
 
N

Nick Maclaren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Richard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Hmmm. You don't see many assaults against the drivers of those very
>wide, very slow Armored Personnel Carriers - er, at least not in this
>country. Now there's a thought. And if your licence is as old as
>mine, it'll be a provisional licence for tracked vehicles...


They dropped that when I was given my new, non-renewable (paper)
licence. I did seriously think of getting an armoured tricycle,
but reckoned that the police would slap an ASBO on me.

>Use filament lights; you can tell whether these were on or off at the
>time of the crash, provided the filament can be found. :cool: Not a great
>deal of comfort, mind.


Not reliably. They could have burnt out earlier.

>I've found that drivers give me plenty of space when I look vaguely like
>a policeman. Odd, that.


I also thought of that. I wasn't any more optimistic that the plod
would allow it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Nick Maclaren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>A suggestion. A recumbent trike, see http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/

>
> Sigh. I thought of that, but it obviously wouldn't help. As I posted,
> I had an essentially zero accident rate (including even trivial ones),
> which indicates that I could compensate for my loss of middle-ear
> function. And a tricycle of any sort would INCREASE the conflict
> (being wider and not able to use the so-called cycle path on that
> road), which would almost certainly increase the rate of assault.
>
> What is the betting that a StageRoach driver wouldn't run right over
> me on a recumbant tricycle, and then claim that it was unlit and he
> didn't see me? Lights tend not to work after being squashed, so it
> would be very hard to disprove.
>
>

You see, that's where, through experience of cycling both a 'normal' bike
and a recumbent trike I completely disagree with you. What you believe is
what a lot of non-recumbent riders think before they've given a recumbent a
go. Aggressive drivers are not exclusive to Cambridge. I cycle assertively
be it on the 'normal' bike or on the trike. In either case I take the road
room I need for my safety. I do not cycle in the gutter. I am considerate, I
will say/wave a thank you to drives who show me courtesy. Where I do a lot
of my cycling, I see the same drivers day after day. Without fail, I am
shown more courtesy when I am on the recumbent trike than when I'm on the
upright two-wheeler. You'd think that the 'bent taking up more room that
drivers would be more impatient when I'm on the 'bent, but they are not:
they are *noticeably* more patient and courteous when I'm on the 'bent. I
can be on my bike and a driver can act as if I'm invisible, yet the same
driver, on the same bit of road, at the same time of day will cheerily pull
in and wave to gve me priority over him when I'm on the 'bent. Go figure.
It's not just me that has noticed this difference in reaction as my son has
the same experience when he's riding the 'bent compared to when he's on his
normal bike, as does my husband when he's ridden the 'bent. Indeed, cycling
the 'bent through the middle of Dereham, the traffic stopped.... I kid you
not!

Cheers, helen s
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Richard <[email protected]> wrote:


>>I've found that drivers give me plenty of space when I look vaguely like
>>a policeman. Odd, that.


> I also thought of that. I wasn't any more optimistic that the plod
> would allow it.


There's impersonating, and looking "vaguely like". My dad used to
commute into London by m/cycle. He found when he has a bike with a
white fairing and wore a black Belstaff, white helmet and reflective Sam
Brown he got quite a bit more respect than before...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
M

Mark McNeill

Guest
Response to wafflycat:
> Without fail, I am
> shown more courtesy when I am on the recumbent trike than when I'm on the
> upright two-wheeler. You'd think that the 'bent taking up more room that
> drivers would be more impatient when I'm on the 'bent, but they are not:
> they are *noticeably* more patient and courteous when I'm on the 'bent. I
> can be on my bike and a driver can act as if I'm invisible, yet the same
> driver, on the same bit of road, at the same time of day will cheerily pull
> in and wave to gve me priority over him when I'm on the 'bent.


Exactly so. I make my disgracefully short commute a couple of times a
day, and there's one short stretch, a few yards before I take a left
turn, where I invariably take the primary position. I'll get honked at
on the upright on average once every couple of weeks; in two years, it's
happened only once on the trike.

I think the most likely reason is simply that the trike looks more
impressive - a bike, to many drivers, may be just a toy, and the rider
needn't be taken seriously as a road user; but the trike can be seen as
a more "serious" machine. I'm not by any means saying that's a
defensible point of view, but I'll bet that's the way a lot of drivers
see it.

--
Mark, UK
"CYCLIST WEDS - - News? Faith then I can't see it. Why, pray, should
cyclists not wed? Is there something in the exercise of the craft, some
secret vow, some occult commitment that makes the founding of a family,
the cultivation of the sweet domestic arts, the cherishing of womankind
(aplurally) incompatible with cyclism? Are we to infer, forsooth, that
there was never any Mrs Sturmey Archer?"