Democracy anyone?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Ride Your Bike, Aug 23, 2003.

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  1. http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072103Landes/072103landes.html

    Offshore company captures online military vote By Lynn Landes Online Journal Contributing Writer
    July 21, 2003-Last year, while George W. Bush marshaled U.S. forces for the invasion of Iraq, the
    patriots at the Department of Defense awarded the contract for a new online voting system for the
    military . . . to an offshore company. It gets worse. Secure Electronic Registration and Voting
    Experiment (SERVE) is the system and Accenture (formerly Anderson Consulting of Enron bankruptcy
    fame) is the company. And although Accenture has not been officially implicated in the Enron
    scandal, they have created a reputation of their own that is already raising eyebrows. This is hot
    off the newswire-7/15/03 NEW YORK (CBS.MW)-Accenture Ltd., the former Andersen Consulting, disclosed
    Tuesday that it might have violated the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Chairman and CEO Joe
    Forehand, on an earnings call with analysts and reporters Tuesday, said the consulting firm's Middle
    East operations could be in non-compliance with the Act, which prohibits the bribery of foreign
    government officials by U.S. persons. The Canada-based Polaris Institute published a scathing report
    on Accenture, saying, "Accenture's efforts in government outsourcing have often been very expensive
    and/or of poor quality. There is good reason to question Accenture's track record in outsourcing of
    government services." Accenture is the leading offshore beneficiary of government contracts whose
    main business is the privatization of government services, according to Lee Drutman of Citizen
    Works, a non-profit founded by Ralph Nader. Accenture has a troubling track record, a close business
    relationship with Dick Cheney's Halliburton, and 2,500 partners of which more than half are not U.S.
    citizens. Since 2001. Accenture and Election.com have been strategic partners "to jointly deliver
    comprehensive election solutions to governments worldwide," according to their press release. Last
    month Accenture bought the public-sector election assets of Election.com, which suffered its own
    scandal this year when it was discovered that Osan Ltd, a firm of Saudi and other foreign investors,
    bought controlling interest in it. According to Mark Harrington of NewsDay.com, "Several
    shareholders of the company said they were surprised by the recent buyout and have asked for
    securities regulators to investigate." Election.com has had other problems. In January 2003, during
    Canada's New Democratic Party leadership convention, the Canadian Broadcasting System reported,
    "Earl Hurd of Election.com said he believes someone used a 'denial of service' program to disrupt
    the voting-paralyzing the central computer by bombarding it with a stream of data" . . . service was
    restored, then . . ."Toronto city councilor Jack Layton's victory on the first ballot surprised
    many, who had expected a second or even third round of voting before a leader was chosen from the
    pack of six candidates." For election security experts, a strong and growing suspicion is that
    computer glitches or disruptions are actually vote rigging. A surprise election result should raise
    a red flag. Accenture is big. It has more than 75,000 employees in 47 countries, and generated net
    revenues of $11.6 billion for the fiscal year ended Aug. 31, 2002. On their board of directors is
    Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's CEO and known to many as Bad Boy Ballmer for his ruthless, if not
    illegal, business practices. Microsoft has been sued by the federal government and several states
    for monopolistic business practices which were designed to destroy their competition.
    Massachusetts's Attorney General is still pursuing Microsoft. In March 13, 2000 Andersen Consulting
    (now Accenture) and Microsoft signed a "$1 Billion Pact To Form Joint Venture and Expand Global
    Alliance." What's the alliance? To control voting systems around the world? A sense of civic duty
    isn't high on Accenture's list of priorities. According to an article last year in
    TheDailyEnron.com, "Accenture is lobbying furiously on Capitol Hill to defeat a measure that would
    deny federal contracts to US companies that move offshore to escape US taxes. Accenture, you see,
    has incorporated in Bermuda. But, Accenture also holds nearly $1 billion in government contracts in
    the US. The company earned nearly $700 million last year working for Uncle Sam and, ironically, is
    currently under contract with the Internal Revenue Service itself to redesign its online and
    Internet operations." Then there's the Accenture connection to Halliburton, Vice President Dick
    Cheney's former employer. Halliburton is widely criticized for doing business with brutal regimes
    and was the subject of an SEC investigation and several lawsuits surrounding their accounting
    practices during and after Cheney's tenure at the helm. The Polaris Institute says that in July 2000
    David Lesar succeeded Dick Cheney as chairman and CEO of Halliburton Company. Before joining
    Halliburton, Lesar was employed by Arthur Andersen, Accenture's former parent company. Polaris says,
    " . . . while defending Halliburton's accounting practices, David Lesar publicly acknowledged that
    Cheney knew about the firm's accounting practices . . ." In an October 2001 press release,
    Halliburton and Accenture announced a major expansion of their longstanding relationship with the
    signing of an alliance between Accenture and Landmark Graphics Corporation, a wholly owned business
    unit of Halliburton. And unlike the words of the U.S. military's anthem, "I'm proud to be an
    American," Accenture owes its allegiance to "partners" outside the USA. In a letter to the editor of
    the Austin Chronicle last year, Accenture Director of Corporate Communications Roxanne Taylor wrote,
    "When Accenture's parent company, Accenture Ltd., was first incorporated last year, the
    organization's 2,500 partners, more than half of whom are non-U.S. citizens, decided to incorporate
    in Bermuda. With thousands of partners and employees of many nationalities, it was important
    commercially and culturally for the organization to select a neutral location such as Bermuda for
    its parent company." How very global of them. Potentially, 6 million U.S. military and civilian
    voters could soon be using the military's new online voting system. According to computer voting
    security experts, any online system will be easy to rig by company insiders and vulnerable to attack
    by outsiders. Apart from that reality, does the U.S. military really want a company owned by
    non-U.S. citizens in charge of their vote? Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
     
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  2. Doug Huffman

    Doug Huffman Guest

  3. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    ride your bike rode completely off topic with: <a load of stuff snipped>
    > Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
    Can anyone post to appropriate newsgroups?

    Well, while we're off topic, Winston Churchill said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst
    form of government except all the others that have been tried".

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  4. Bgaudet0801

    Bgaudet0801 Guest

    "ride your bike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072103Landes/072103landes.html
    >
    > Offshore company captures online military vote By Lynn Landes Online Journal Contributing Writer
    >> Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment (SERVE) is the
    system
    > and Accenture (formerly Anderson Consulting of Enron bankruptcy fame) is the company. And although
    > Accenture has not been officially implicated in the Enron scandal, they have created a reputation
    > of their own that is already raising eyebrows.

    To be fair Accenture was spun off from Andersen years before Enron, Worldcom and the rest. In fact
    they had a legal battle over the use of the Andersen name - hence the name Accenture. I'm guessing
    it's one case Accenture execs now fall to the ground and thank lucifer they lost.

    On another note I'm not sure why the author is so disturbed about the location of the company's
    head office.
     
  5. Doug Huffman

    Doug Huffman Guest

    The subjects of the United Kingdom may play at 'democracy' but I believe that their form of
    government is still "constitutional monarchy" just as the United States' form is "constitutional
    republic". Further, armed men may be citizens but disarmed they are no more than subjects.

    Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. THAT is egalitarianism and that is what egalitarianism will
    get you. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense - even on bicycles, damn it!

    "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > ride your bike rode completely off topic with: <a load of stuff snipped>
    > > Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
    > Can anyone post to appropriate newsgroups?
    >
    > Well, while we're off topic, Winston Churchill said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst
    > form of government except all the others that have been tried".
    >
    > --
    > Jim Price
    >
    > http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com
    >
    > Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  6. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "ride your bike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072103Landes/072103landes.html
    >
    > Offshore company captures online military vote By Lynn Landes Online Journal Contributing Writer
    > July 21, 2003-Last year, while George W. Bush marshaled U.S. forces for
    the

    <<snip..>

    > Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
    >

    WTF does this have to do with rec.bicycles.misc? Fear monger somewhere else please.

    Scott..
     
  7. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "Doug Huffman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The subjects of the United Kingdom may play at 'democracy' but I believe that their form of
    > government is still "constitutional monarchy" just as
    the
    > United States' form is "constitutional republic". Further, armed men may
    be
    > citizens but disarmed they are no more than subjects.
    >
    > Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. THAT is egalitarianism and that
    is
    > what egalitarianism will get you. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense - even
    > on bicycles, damn it!

    So what is voting all about, Doug? Are you saying that votes are of no use, and have no effect? By
    your arguments, justice and civil rights sprout from the barrel of a gun. How does that work,
    exactly? Sounds to me like the Pentagon has all the marbles, in your view of the world. Perhaps it's
    true; and if so, then all of the militias and 2nd Amendment thumpers are the biggest fools of all:
    One USAF air strike would knock out any Idaho militia compound in a matter of minutes.

    I've rarely run across such an arrogant aphorism as "the conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as
    common sense." The irony is that those who quote it often usually do so after proving their own
    ignorance rather obviously.

    -Barry

    >
    > "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > ride your bike rode completely off topic with: <a load of stuff snipped>
    > > > Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
    > > Can anyone post to appropriate newsgroups?
    > >
    > > Well, while we're off topic, Winston Churchill said: "It has been said that democracy is the
    > > worst form of government except all the others that have been tried".
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jim Price
    > >
    > > http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com
    > >
    > > Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
    > >
     
  8. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    >
    > Democracy, the rule of fools by fools.

    Yes, Emperor Huffman and his +4 SD IQ should rule us all.

    I wonder if Mr. Huffman still has me killfiled on his newsreader?

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  9. Doug Huffman wrote:
    > The subjects of the United Kingdom may play at 'democracy' but I believe that their form of
    > government is still "constitutional monarchy" just as the United States' form is "constitutional
    > republic". Further, armed men may be citizens but disarmed they are no more than subjects.

    The UK can hardly be called a monarchy of any kind anymore. While they still have a monarch, that
    monarch has no real governmental power anymore.

    The U.S. is a democratic republic. That is, the laws are made and in many cases enforced by people
    elected by the people. Pure democracy is impractical on a large scale because otherwise we'd all
    have to go to the polls every day. A democratic republic is as close as we can reasonably get to
    democracy.

    > Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. THAT is egalitarianism and that is what egalitarianism
    > will get you. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense - even on bicycles, damn it!

    Of course, you have a better way?

    --Bill Davidson
    --
    Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

    I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now
     
  10. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Doug Huffman top posted:

    > The subjects of the United Kingdom may play at 'democracy' but I believe that their form of
    > government is still "constitutional monarchy" just as the United States' form is "constitutional
    > republic".

    Actually, we don't have a constitution.

    > Further, armed men may be citizens but disarmed they are no more than subjects.

    I am reminded of an Irish friend of mine, who said after working for a few years in the US "the
    problem with Americans is they don't know how to lose their temper". You have obviously never met an
    enraged inhabitant of the British Isles (which amusingly enough still covers the whole of Ireland).

    > Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. THAT is egalitarianism and that is what egalitarianism
    > will get you.

    No, the French are the people claiming the egalitarianism, amongst two other things on their
    former coinage.

    > The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense - even on bicycles, damn it!

    Thats why we don't have votes on every issue, or enough bicycles.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  11. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Bill Davidson wrote:
    > The UK can hardly be called a monarchy of any kind anymore. While they still have a monarch, that
    > monarch has no real governmental power anymore.

    I'm not convinced we can be called united with a capital U after all the devolution thats been going
    on here recently.

    > The U.S. is a democratic republic. That is, the laws are made and in many cases enforced by people
    > elected by the people.

    So how come you guys ended up with the DMCA and patentable genes? Worse, how come you've got states
    with utterly mad bicycle laws?

    > Pure democracy is impractical on a large scale because otherwise we'd all have to go to the polls
    > every day. A democratic republic is as close as we can reasonably get to democracy.

    Um, from the original Churchill quote, its only really as close as we've got so far. Some
    improvement still needed, I think.

    >> Democracy is the rule of fools by fools. THAT is egalitarianism and that is what
    >> egalitarianism will get you. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense - even on
    >> bicycles, damn it!
    >
    > Of course, you have a better way?

    Indeed, if they actually had the intellect to match their ambition, they'd be far more dangerous.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  12. Brian Wax

    Brian Wax Guest

    Actually it has quite a lot to do with bicycling. You simply need a larger systems perspective.

    You can go back to sleep now.

    "S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "ride your bike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    >
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072103Landes/072103landes.html
    > >
    > > Offshore company captures online military vote By Lynn Landes Online Journal Contributing Writer
    > > July 21, 2003-Last year, while George W. Bush marshaled U.S. forces for
    > the
    >
    > <<snip..>
    >
    > > Can anyone at the Pentagon spell "national security?"
    > >
    >
    > WTF does this have to do with rec.bicycles.misc? Fear monger somewhere
    else
    > please.
    >
    > Scott..
     
  13. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "Brian Wax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Actually it has quite a lot to do with bicycling. You simply need a larger systems perspective.
    >
    > You can go back to sleep now.
    >
    >

    Sure..so do ten commandments monuments, the seal hunt and global warming. This isn't a forum for
    those things, unfortunately, so take it some place else where it's on-topic and somebody
    actually cares.

    Zzzzzzzz.....

    Scott..
     
  14. Jim Price wrote:
    > Bill Davidson wrote:
    >> The U.S. is a democratic republic. That is, the laws are made and in many cases enforced by
    >> people elected by the people.
    >
    > So how come you guys ended up with the DMCA and patentable genes? Worse, how come you've got
    > states with utterly mad bicycle laws?

    DMCA - Most americans don't even know what it is or that it exists. It was passed by powerful
    lobbies influencing congressmen. We need more activism. I wrote to my congressional representatives
    about it a few years ago. Unfortunately, since I live in California,

    because she works for the movie and music industry and the other didn't respond. I voted
    against both of them the last time they were up and will continue to do so in the future. My
    house representative responded but I wasn't sure of his position on the matter. He's already
    gone anyway. Patentable Genes - Again, widespread ignorance and a generally clueless patent
    office that needs a major overhaul. They also award patents for mathematical algorithms
    here. Sigh. Bicycle laws - Actually, given the general public's attitude towards cyclists, I
    think we have suprisingly good bicycle laws in most places. I think if people were actually
    directly voting on bicycle laws, we cyclists would probably have it a lot worse. We're lucky
    that most of the people with an activist agenda about bicycle laws are cyclists. The typical
    cager doesn't like bikes but also isn't motivated enough to write letters to his state
    representatives.

    --Bill Davidson
    --
    Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

    I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now
     
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