Describe your best VO2Max Intervals

[wiredued]

I've been doing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday for a while now on those days I think I have 91% FTP low L4 covered with some high L6 and low L7 work mixed in. I want to add a Thursday workout that targets 106% low L5. I'm thinking 5x4 minute intervals with 4 minute L1 or L2 rests in between is that about right?...Thanks

 

[TiMan]

I've been doing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday for a while now on those days I think I have 91% FTP low L4 covered with some high L6 and low L7 work mixed in. I want to add a Thursday workout that targets 106% low L5. I'm thinking 5x4 minute intervals with 4 minute L1 or L2 rests in between is that about right?...Thanks

Don't put your VO2 work late in the training week.

Go from most intense to least intense efforts in the training week, unless you are doing pure block training L2 through L5 one energy system at a time..........

So on Saturdays I would do your L 7 and then L6 work followed by some low L4 perhaps....then on Monday I would do the VO2 work....then Wednesday do your L4 work and if you do Thursdays then do some more L4, perhaps at a lower level or do some L3 .

5 X 4 minutes with equal recovery time is good. Ramp up the effort slightly over the first 30-45 seconds or so.
My favorite VO2 workout is 5 X 5. I like the longer VO2 intervals since you get in more total time at VO2 per interval....about a solid 20 minutes for a 5 X 5.
I also like to do them either climbing or on a trainer as the environment is more controlled.

It would be best to ride L2, L3(plenty), L4(good amount for you) and L7(high L7 sprints) this time of year though. But if you want to try some L5 and L6 work for a few weeks go ahead and try some. Be especially careful with the L6 work as it can burn you out pretty quick if you do too much for too long.

Read through the articles on this web site. These guys have it spot on in my opinion and mirror my training/coaching approach
www.cycle-smart.com

 

[wiredued]

Thanks for the info Timan I will try 5x5 this Thursday I don't think I can change the rest of my regimen right now though due to my need for higher FTP. Mixing L6/L7 with low L4 came naturally because I need the out of the saddle break every 5 minutes any way so I take the wattage up several notches and it doesn't effect my L4 pace at all when I'm back in the saddle. I have to say I avoid high L7 most of the time to prevent knee pain.... maybe just once every two months to see if my sprint has improved I have alot of room for improvement there as well.

 

[Spunout]

Re: Schedule

I think a suggestion is to do L6 Wednesday (after Tuesday's day off) and then L4 Thursday.

Do your most intense workout when fully recovered, followed by progressively longer/less intense workouts.

 

[RapDaddyo]

I've been doing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday for a while now on those days I think I have 91% FTP low L4 covered with some high L6 and low L7 work mixed in. I want to add a Thursday workout that targets 106% low L5. I'm thinking 5x4 minute intervals with 4 minute L1 or L2 rests in between is that about right?...Thanks

I do my L5s at 120%FTP (in contrast to L4s which I do at 91-105%FTP). As to duration and recovery, I do them at anthing >3mins duration and with at least equal recovery duration at ~50%FTP. I don't worry too much about what I did the prior day (i.e., what specific workout), but I try to do L5s following a day with <= 150 TSS points. I try to get in a total of at least 40mins/wk of L5s, but it can vary from 20-60mins.

 

[wiredued]

Looks possible even for a cycling cyborg wannabe like me. Thursday looks less intense than Wednesday on the TSS calculator I think it will work.

Wednesday 3x28 91% FTP with 15x35 second 136% L6 jumps = 127 TSS
Thursday 5x5 120% VO2Max = 76 TSS

I do my L5s at 120%FTP (in contrast to L4s which I do at 91-105%FTP). As to duration and recovery, I do them at anthing >3mins duration and with at least equal recovery duration at ~50%FTP. I don't worry too much about what I did the prior day (i.e., what specific workout), but I try to do L5s following a day with <= 150 TSS points. I try to get in a total of at least 40mins/wk of L5s, but it can vary from 20-60mins.

 

[postal_bag]

I've been doing Saturday, Monday, Wednesday for a while now on those days I think I have 91% FTP low L4 covered with some high L6 and low L7 work mixed in. I want to add a Thursday workout that targets 106% low L5. I'm thinking 5x4 minute intervals with 4 minute L1 or L2 rests in between is that about right?...Thanks

Hey, I think I had a thread questioning the idea of an L5 "sweet spot". Anyway, I seem to recall that the consensus was that low L5 didn't really target VO2 max so much as FTP. I think it was suggested that ~113% was the low end for targeting VO2 max. Since you may really be targeting L4 at 106%, maybe you should shoot for longer intervals and/or shorter recovery.....or do your 4' intervals at 113% or higher.

 

[TiMan]

Hey, I think I had a thread questioning the idea of an L5 "sweet spot". Anyway, I seem to recall that the consensus was that low L5 didn't really target VO2 max so much as FTP. I think it was suggested that ~113% was the low end for targeting VO2 max. Since you may really be targeting L4 at 106%, maybe you should shoot for longer intervals and/or shorter recovery.....or do your 4' intervals at 113% or higher.

Yes...that's true of low L5 I think.


However, I recommend dropping the L5 altogether and save your energy and recovery powers for L4 work....then in March or April start some L5 work.
My .02

 

[wiredued]

Do you think VO2Max intervals just once a week can cause early peaking?

Yes...that's true of low L5 I think.


However, I recommend dropping the L5 altogether and save your energy and recovery powers for L4 work....then in March or April start some L5 work.
My .02

 

[TiMan]

Do you think VO2Max intervals just once a week can cause early peaking?

Yes, if they are "real" VO2 max efforts and the volume is high enough.
But "peaking" isn't the real issue. The real issue is that we all have limited recovery powers and training energy. To do weekly VO2 max intervals at this time of year is a waste of training energy and recovery powers. Save them for building your FTP in the most effective and efficient way by doing L3 and L4 work. Really wiredued, the only intensity above L4 I would recommend at this time of year DONE IN A STRUCTURED MANNER would be Sprinting.
Now it is fine to get in "some" L5 and L6 work in ONE weekly group ride in the winter but to go out and do structured L5 and 6 work at this time of year is now wise IMHO.

High L7(sprinting) should be done year round, if your race road races. Sprinting isn't anywhere near as difficult to recover from as VO2 max and especially AWC intervals.

 

[RapDaddyo]

Looks possible even for a cycling cyborg wannabe like me. Thursday looks less intense than Wednesday on the TSS calculator I think it will work.

Wednesday 3x28 91% FTP with 15x35 second 136% L6 jumps = 127 TSS
Thursday 5x5 120% VO2Max = 76 TSS

That looks doable. At most, you might have to either extend the recovery durations (e.g., 7mins) or go to 6x4 @ 120%FTP. I think the recovery durations are completely irrelevant to the adaptation benefit. Sure, a shorter recovery duration increases NP for the total ride, but you're targeting VO2MAX so who cares?

 

[wiredued]

Now I'm thinking 5x3 just to get used to this consecutive day training that is going to be necessary if I want weekly TSS to top 500 some day and get some benefit in L5. Back to Back L4 just dosen't appeal to me and "L5 Thursday" has a nice ring to it not very scientific but easy to remember.

Yes, if they are "real" VO2 max efforts and the volume is high enough.
But "peaking" isn't the real issue. The real issue is that we all have limited recovery powers and training energy. To do weekly VO2 max intervals at this time of year is a waste of training energy and recovery powers. Save them for building your FTP in the most effective and efficient way by doing L3 and L4 work. Really wiredued, the only intensity above L4 I would recommend at this time of year DONE IN A STRUCTURED MANNER would be Sprinting.
Now it is fine to get in "some" L5 and L6 work in ONE weekly group ride in the winter but to go out and do structured L5 and 6 work at this time of year is now wise IMHO.

High L7(sprinting) should be done year round, if your race road races. Sprinting isn't anywhere near as difficult to recover from as VO2 max and especially AWC intervals.

 

[frenchyge]

6x 4min @115%FTP with 3min rests.

Tweak the power-level and rest interval based on how the ride NP compares with your mean max NP chart for that duration. Try to beat your previous mean max NP by 2-3 watts for the total workout duration.

 

[xcmntgeek]

Has anyone thought about how the duration of VO2max intervals affect the targeted system?

2min at 120% FTP : 2min 50% FTP X 25
vs.
5min at 120% FTP : 5min 50% FTP X 10

Would the first example be considered more of an FTP targeting workout because of the shorter interval times?

Justin

 

[acoggan]

Has anyone thought about how the duration of VO2max intervals affect the targeted system?

Of course.

Search the wattage list for a thread that I started with a title (IIRC) along the lines of "thoughts on level 5 training"...

2min at 120% FTP : 2min 50% FTP X 25
vs.
5min at 120% FTP : 5min 50% FTP X 10

Would the first example be considered more of an FTP targeting workout because of the shorter interval times?

I expect that it would prove to be one of those "neither here nor there" sessions, i.e., the efforts are sufficiently short and the recovery periods sufficiently long for enough energy to be provided via PCr degradation and resynthesis that neither VO2max nor functioanal threshold power are as stressed as they might be with either longer efforts or shorter recoveries.

 

[rmur17]

Of course.

Search the wattage list for a thread that I started with a title (IIRC) along the lines of "thoughts on level 5 training"...

2min at 120% FTP : 2min 50% FTP X 25
vs.
5min at 120% FTP : 5min 50% FTP X 10



I expect that it would prove to be one of those "neither here nor there" sessions, i.e., the efforts are sufficiently short and the recovery periods sufficiently long for enough energy to be provided via PCr degradation and resynthesis that neither VO2max nor functioanal threshold power are as stressed as they might be with either longer efforts or shorter recoveries.

http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=913346382&sort=d&start=43832

is the wattage list link ...

 

[xcmntgeek]

Oh yes, I saw it, one of the reasons I posted here was because it interested me. I always connected PCr with maximal neuromuscular bouts but it does make sense after some looking into.

I'm curious to whether short bouts at VO2 max power combined with a short recovery time (30-60sec?) would eventually put the athlete into "maximal oxygen uptake". Though, probably not most effective training technique because the time in the actual targeted zone would be little.

Justin

 

[acoggan]

I'm curious to whether short bouts at VO2 max power combined with a short recovery time (30-60sec?) would eventually put the athlete into "maximal oxygen uptake". Though, probably not most effective training technique because the time in the actual targeted zone would be little.

Actually, the opposite is true: 30 s on/off intervals allow runners to spend more time at VO2max than continuous exercise at the minimal velocity eliciting VO2max (see papers by V. Billat). What isn't known, however, is whether this is a more effective way to train (in the chronic sense), as no one (to my knowledge) has done the appropriate study to answer this question. I don't think you can automatically assume this to be true (as Billat appears to have done), because 1) it's merely conjecture that time at/near VO2max is the most important factor, and 2) time at/near VO2max is not necessarily the same as time at/near maximal cardiac output (esp. relevant since this type of training results in very high VO2 values in part due to the so-called slow component of VO2, i.e., VO2 drift).

 

[xcmntgeek]

Reading the Billat abstract I came across this at the end:

"The blood lactate responses were less pronounced in the interval runs than for the v delta 50 runs, but not significantly so [6.8 (SD 2.2) mmol.l-1 vs 7.5 (SD 2.1) mmol.l-1]"

Is that really an insignificant blood lactate increase? Could that have something to do with it possibly not being as effective training, assuming that the lactate levels are just a marker of course. It does sound like an interesting study could be performed.

J

Actually, the opposite is true: 30 s on/off intervals allow runners to spend more time at VO2max than continuous exercise at the minimal velocity eliciting VO2max (see papers by V. Billat). What isn't known, however, is whether this is a more effective way to train (in the chronic sense), as no one (to my knowledge) has done the appropriate study to answer this question. I don't think you can automatically assume this to be true (as Billat appears to have done), because 1) it's merely conjecture that time at/near VO2max is the most important factor, and 2) time at/near VO2max is not necessarily the same as time at/near maximal cardiac output (esp. relevant since this type of training results in very high VO2 values in part due to the so-called slow component of VO2, i.e., VO2 drift).

 

[robthompson]

TiMan, I thought your comment of doing high L7 / sprints year around was interesting. Would you be will to share some examples of workouts you do and how many times per season you do them?

Thanks

Rob

Don't put your VO2 work late in the training week.

Go from most intense to least intense efforts in the training week, unless you are doing pure block training L2 through L5 one energy system at a time..........

So on Saturdays I would do your L 7 and then L6 work followed by some low L4 perhaps....then on Monday I would do the VO2 work....then Wednesday do your L4 work and if you do Thursdays then do some more L4, perhaps at a lower level or do some L3 .

5 X 4 minutes with equal recovery time is good. Ramp up the effort slightly over the first 30-45 seconds or so.
My favorite VO2 workout is 5 X 5. I like the longer VO2 intervals since you get in more total time at VO2 per interval....about a solid 20 minutes for a 5 X 5.
I also like to do them either climbing or on a trainer as the environment is more controlled.

It would be best to ride L2, L3(plenty), L4(good amount for you) and L7(high L7 sprints) this time of year though. But if you want to try some L5 and L6 work for a few weeks go ahead and try some. Be especially careful with the L6 work as it can burn you out pretty quick if you do too much for too long.

Read through the articles on this web site. These guys have it spot on in my opinion and mirror my training/coaching approach
www.cycle-smart.com