"Designing Healthy Communities: Raising Healthy Kids"

[Jeanne]

Erik Sandblom wrote:
> i artikel [email protected], skrev Mike
> Kruger på [email protected] den 06-04-26 03.42:
>
>
>>"Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:C07431BF.1C139%[email protected]...
>>
>>>I don't see how maintenance could be an issue. Water and sewage and roads
>>>etc also need maintenance, but you don't get people saying "oooh, can't
>>>have
>>>sewage pipes, who is going to maintain them?"
>>>
>>
>>Wrong. "Who pays for replacement" is often an interesting political battle
>>for upgraded water lines, sewage lines, and roads. For example, if upgraded
>>storm sewers are needed to prevent storm flooding, should this cost be borne
>>by all the taxpayers in the district, those who live along the line to be
>>rebuilt, or only that subset who have flooding problems? There are no right
>>or wrong answers, just hard questions.
>>
>>As for roads: why are some expressways in the Chicago area toll roads paid
>>for by those who use them , while others are free and paid for by general
>>taxes? In the end, it was who had (a) more money and (b) less political
>>clout.
>
>
>
> Okay, I didn't know that. Sometimes I think democracy can get a little
> excessive. Why not just pay your tax and leave things like sewage to the
> experts?

Money. There's not enough of it, so arguments arise over who will pay.

>Do you have arguments about what colour to paint the stripes on the
> road too?
>

Maybe. There have been arguments over *where* to paint the stripes
(e.g., should the roads be striped to allow bike lanes?).

 

[Bill Baka]

Jeanne wrote:
> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Mike
>> Kruger på [email protected] den 06-04-26 03.42:
>>
>>
>>> "Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:C07431BF.1C139%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I don't see how maintenance could be an issue. Water and sewage and
>>>> roads
>>>> etc also need maintenance, but you don't get people saying "oooh, can't
>>>> have
>>>> sewage pipes, who is going to maintain them?"
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong. "Who pays for replacement" is often an interesting political
>>> battle
>>> for upgraded water lines, sewage lines, and roads. For example, if
>>> upgraded
>>> storm sewers are needed to prevent storm flooding, should this cost
>>> be borne
>>> by all the taxpayers in the district, those who live along the line
>>> to be
>>> rebuilt, or only that subset who have flooding problems? There are
>>> no right
>>> or wrong answers, just hard questions.
>>>
>>> As for roads: why are some expressways in the Chicago area toll roads
>>> paid
>>> for by those who use them , while others are free and paid for by
>>> general
>>> taxes? In the end, it was who had (a) more money and (b) less political
>>> clout.
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, I didn't know that. Sometimes I think democracy can get a little
>> excessive. Why not just pay your tax and leave things like sewage to the
>> experts?
>
> Money. There's not enough of it, so arguments arise over who will pay.
>
>> Do you have arguments about what colour to paint the stripes on the
>> road too?
>>
>
> Maybe. There have been arguments over *where* to paint the stripes
> (e.g., should the roads be striped to allow bike lanes?).
>
You just got me back into this since I kind of pushed it along about
greedy developers not giving a damn about the neighborhood they are
building. They tore out the 100 year old trees (all 3 of them) to make
room for new houses. They put up signs saying 1; (Proposed park) yet to
be built, and 2; (Proposed school) yet to be built, so all the families
that moved there have to send their kids to the already vastly
overcrowded local schools.
The icing on the cake came for me yesterday when I was riding around the
houses still being built and looked at the air conditioning units that
were being installed on these $300,000 box houses. The legal SEER was
from 10.0 to 17.0+ and guess what, they were all 10.0, as in el-cheapo
and maximum profit for the (need I say it?) GREEDY developer. These
people are going to have a big surprise when they try to cool their
barely insulated houses in the local 100+ summers. The electric bills
are going to be over $400 a month so the developer saves a few hundred
bucks a house and the chump that buys it pays an extra hundred every
month for as long as he owns the house.
Bike paths?
You have to be kidding. This developer builds and runs to the next
county. They could give a **** once the houses are sold and the
complaints start coming in. Not their problem since the county didn't
enforce decent development.
The only bike lanes are on the main roads where everyone is hauling anyway.

 

[Colorado Bicycler]

They put the bike paths in first around here. No kidding, and they all
have to interconnect with the Town's master bike path system. Every
subdivision is interconnected with the main system, which goes to
downtown Denver and beyond.

 

[[email protected]]

== They put the bike paths in first around here. No kidding, and they
all
have to interconnect with the Town's master bike path system. Every
subdivision is interconnected with the main system, which goes to
downtown Denver and beyond.


Denver sounds like it is way ahead of the game.

 

[George Conklin]

"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> >
> You just got me back into this since I kind of pushed it along about
> greedy developers not giving a damn about the neighborhood they are
> building.

I suppose selfless city administrations can house you in their public
housing units, obviously nirvana for you and your parents.

 

[George Conklin]

"Colorado Bicycler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They put the bike paths in first around here. No kidding, and they all
> have to interconnect with the Town's master bike path system. Every
> subdivision is interconnected with the main system, which goes to
> downtown Denver and beyond.
>

Lovely. Those bike paths extend all the way to LA?

 

[George Conklin]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> == They put the bike paths in first around here. No kidding, and they
> all
> have to interconnect with the Town's master bike path system. Every
> subdivision is interconnected with the main system, which goes to
> downtown Denver and beyond.
>
>
> Denver sounds like it is way ahead of the game.
>

What about horse trails for mules?

 

[Erik Sandblom]

i artikel [email protected], skrev Jeanne på
[email protected] den 06-04-26 13.44:

> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>> i artikel [email protected], skrev Mike
>> Kruger på [email protected] den 06-04-26 03.42:
>>
>>> "Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:C07431BF.1C139%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I don't see how maintenance could be an issue. Water and sewage and roads
>>>> etc also need maintenance, but you don't get people saying "oooh, can't
>>>> have sewage pipes, who is going to maintain them?"
>>>
>>> Wrong. "Who pays for replacement" is often an interesting political battle
>>> for upgraded water lines, sewage lines, and roads. For example, if upgraded
>>> storm sewers are needed to prevent storm flooding, should this cost be borne
>>> by all the taxpayers in the district, those who live along the line to be
>>> rebuilt, or only that subset who have flooding problems? There are no right
>>> or wrong answers, just hard questions.
>>>
>>> As for roads: why are some expressways in the Chicago area toll roads paid
>>> for by those who use them , while others are free and paid for by general
>>> taxes? In the end, it was who had (a) more money and (b) less political
>>> clout.
>>
>> Okay, I didn't know that. Sometimes I think democracy can get a little
>> excessive. Why not just pay your tax and leave things like sewage to the
>> experts?
>
> Money. There's not enough of it, so arguments arise over who will pay.


Arguments cost money too. Sometimes directly in the form of ad campaigns,
but always indirectly in time unusable for other purposes.

So this kind of direct democracy, where you argue over sewage costs, is
quite expensive compared to representative democracy, where you elect a guy
or some guys who quietly take care of it.


--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary

 

[Erik Sandblom]

i artikel [email protected], skrev George
Conklin på [email protected] den 06-04-26 21.03:
>
> "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> You just got me back into this since I kind of pushed it along about
>> greedy developers not giving a damn about the neighborhood they are
>> building.
>
> I suppose selfless city administrations can house you in their public
> housing units, obviously nirvana for you and your parents.


Selfless?

What ever happened to selling something you're proud of, building a
reputation and profiting from that?

I can really recommend Philip Kotler "Principles of Marketing". It's a
staple of business education. One of the things marketing people talk about
is "building a brand", which is just newspeak for "building a reputation".

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary

 

[George Conklin]

"Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:C0766FB8.1C217%[email protected]...
> i artikel [email protected], skrev
George
> Conklin på [email protected] den 06-04-26 21.03:
> >
> > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> You just got me back into this since I kind of pushed it along about
> >> greedy developers not giving a damn about the neighborhood they are
> >> building.
> >
> > I suppose selfless city administrations can house you in their public
> > housing units, obviously nirvana for you and your parents.
>
>
> Selfless?
>
> What ever happened to selling something you're proud of, building a
> reputation and profiting from that?
>
> I can really recommend Philip Kotler "Principles of Marketing". It's a
> staple of business education. One of the things marketing people talk
about
> is "building a brand", which is just newspeak for "building a reputation".

You spoke of greedy developers. Now you praise greedy developers. You
don't know your own mind now do you?

 

[George Conklin]

"Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:C0766E6F.1C215%[email protected]...
> i artikel [email protected], skrev Jeanne på
> [email protected] den 06-04-26 13.44:
>
> > Erik Sandblom wrote:
> >> i artikel [email protected], skrev Mike
> >> Kruger på [email protected] den 06-04-26 03.42:
> >>
> >>> "Erik Sandblom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>> news:C07431BF.1C139%[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>>> I don't see how maintenance could be an issue. Water and sewage and
roads
> >>>> etc also need maintenance, but you don't get people saying "oooh,
can't
> >>>> have sewage pipes, who is going to maintain them?"
> >>>
> >>> Wrong. "Who pays for replacement" is often an interesting political
battle
> >>> for upgraded water lines, sewage lines, and roads. For example, if
upgraded
> >>> storm sewers are needed to prevent storm flooding, should this cost be
borne
> >>> by all the taxpayers in the district, those who live along the line to
be
> >>> rebuilt, or only that subset who have flooding problems? There are no
right
> >>> or wrong answers, just hard questions.
> >>>
> >>> As for roads: why are some expressways in the Chicago area toll roads
paid
> >>> for by those who use them , while others are free and paid for by
general
> >>> taxes? In the end, it was who had (a) more money and (b) less
political
> >>> clout.
> >>
> >> Okay, I didn't know that. Sometimes I think democracy can get a little
> >> excessive. Why not just pay your tax and leave things like sewage to
the
> >> experts?
> >
> > Money. There's not enough of it, so arguments arise over who will pay.
>
>
> Arguments cost money too. Sometimes directly in the form of ad campaigns,
> but always indirectly in time unusable for other purposes.
>
> So this kind of direct democracy, where you argue over sewage costs, is
> quite expensive compared to representative democracy, where you elect a
guy
> or some guys who quietly take care of it.

Yes, and when homeowners get to vote on whether they will raise their
dues to take care of worn-out trails, they always say NO.

 

[Colorado Bicycler]

That is gross mismanagement of the HOA.

There should have been a "sinking" or reserve fund built up over the
years to provide for the capital to keep things up. At least, that is
what we have with our HOA>

 

[George Conklin]

"Colorado Bicycler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That is gross mismanagement of the HOA.
>
> There should have been a "sinking" or reserve fund built up over the
> years to provide for the capital to keep things up. At least, that is
> what we have with our HOA>
>

HOAs are controlled not by boards but by the homeowners who simply refuse
dues increases to maintain trails or anything else. It is a long-term
problem. We even have a revolt over a management company which is working
for half-price. Radials say everyone should volunteer including voluntary
mowing. Board members refuse to raise money to pay for projects like
maintenance because they themselves would have to pay about $10 a month more
and they refuse.

 

[Colorado Bicycler]

Don't you love HOA's!

Our town is responsible for the main bicycle trail system, which is
most of the trails, and is meticulously kept up. It is swept
regularly, plowed shortly after every snowstorm, mowed edges regularly,
etc.


>From what I can tell, the trails inside the HOA's responsibility are
also kept in great condition. I've never found a bad one, and we
certainly have a plentitude of HOA's.

 

[Pat]

Okay guys, here's a scary thought for you. As I have said, I work in
developing apartments and most of my work is in rural or semi-rural
areas. I use public funding for most of the development. As part of
the application process, the state has a scoring system.

In NY, you get more point if you include 1 of 2 amenities: central
airconditioning or internet access. No points for workout rooms or
trails. So guess what we include in our buildings? On the good side,
there is a requirement for a playground for tots and a separate area
for pre-teens. But once you are older than that, I guess the state
thinks it's okay to sit in your air conditioned room and surf the web.

If you were to propose a public walking trail, it would create
feasibility issues with their underwriting unit and you'd have trouble
getting funded.

I think the reason for this is that the policy people tend to live in
NYC and the Albany area. So it's not an issue for them.

 

[George Conklin]

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay guys, here's a scary thought for you. As I have said, I work in
> developing apartments and most of my work is in rural or semi-rural
> areas. I use public funding for most of the development. As part of
> the application process, the state has a scoring system.
>
> In NY, you get more point if you include 1 of 2 amenities: central
> airconditioning or internet access. No points for workout rooms or
> trails. So guess what we include in our buildings? On the good side,
> there is a requirement for a playground for tots and a separate area
> for pre-teens. But once you are older than that, I guess the state
> thinks it's okay to sit in your air conditioned room and surf the web.
>
> If you were to propose a public walking trail, it would create
> feasibility issues with their underwriting unit and you'd have trouble
> getting funded.
>
> I think the reason for this is that the policy people tend to live in
> NYC and the Albany area. So it's not an issue for them.
>

In seriously urban areas, trails represent a safety hazard. When Hillary
and Bill got a house a few years back, the Secret Service said it was ok
except for the added danger of a trail. They still got the house I believe,
but at least the increased risk of a trail behind your house was properly
mentioned in the press.