Devine followup



To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
BCC: Mediawatch
Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
their place. I was sorely disappointed.

As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
correspondance with me regarding the issue.

Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
matter,
yours sincerely,
Samuel Russell
[address suppressed]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
To: [email protected], [email protected]


Dear Miranda,

Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
of an article.

Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
(all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
of fact.

yours,
[contact details suppressed]
 
To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
BCC: Mediawatch
Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
their place. I was sorely disappointed.

As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
correspondance with me regarding the issue.

Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
matter,
yours sincerely,
Samuel Russell
[address suppressed]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
To: [email protected], [email protected]


Dear Miranda,

Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
of an article.

Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
(all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
of fact.

yours,
[contact details suppressed]
 
[email protected] wrote:
> To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
> BCC: Mediawatch
> Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
> commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
>
> Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,
>
> I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
> Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
> article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
> intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
> earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
> their place. I was sorely disappointed.
>
> As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
> am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:
>
> Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
> mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
> correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
> mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
> wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
> social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
> the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
> record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
> obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.
>
> I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
> fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
> the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
> are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
> are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
> provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
> regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
> utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
> challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
> writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
> correspondance with me regarding the issue.
>
> Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
> matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
> am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
> original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
> competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
> and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
> Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
> example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
> cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
> there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
> opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
> with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
> for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
> left." which is obviously a statement of fact.
>
> I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
> matter,
> yours sincerely,
> Samuel Russell
> [address suppressed]
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
> Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
> Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
> To: [email protected], [email protected]
>
>
> Dear Miranda,
>
> Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
> exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
> more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
> expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
> of an article.
>
> Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
> roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
> Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
> (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
> on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
> and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.
>
> I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
> of fact.
>
> yours,
> [contact details suppressed]
>

Pure class :)

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast
 
[email protected] wrote:
> To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
> BCC: Mediawatch
> Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
> commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
>
> Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,
>
> I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
> Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
> article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
> intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
> earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
> their place. I was sorely disappointed.
>
> As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
> am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:
>
> Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
> mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
> correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
> mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
> wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
> social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
> the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
> record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
> obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.
>
> I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
> fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
> the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
> are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
> are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
> provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
> regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
> utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
> challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
> writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
> correspondance with me regarding the issue.
>
> Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
> matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
> am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
> original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
> competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
> and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
> Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
> example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
> cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
> there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
> opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
> with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
> for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
> left." which is obviously a statement of fact.
>
> I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
> matter,
> yours sincerely,
> Samuel Russell
> [address suppressed]
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
> Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
> Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
> To: [email protected], [email protected]
>
>
> Dear Miranda,
>
> Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
> exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
> more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
> expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
> of an article.
>
> Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
> roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
> Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
> (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
> on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
> and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.
>
> I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
> of fact.
>
> yours,
> [contact details suppressed]
>

Pure class :)

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast
 
i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been pure class!)

methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and were very not happy.

i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH :D
 
i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been pure class!)

methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and were very not happy.

i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH :D
 
She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to do
the anti cyclist one.
fb

"asterope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto
> (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been
> pure class!)
>
> methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
> boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
> were very not happy.
>
> i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH :D
>
>
> --
> asterope
>
 
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:31:27 GMT, Fractal wrote:

> She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
> last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to do
> the anti cyclist one.


She neglected to mention that Marionite Christians were the people involved
in the branch stacking exercise in the Cherrybrook branch, because that
didn't suit her argument. She also down plays Smiths conservative religious
veiws, which many in the Epping Electorate don't like.

But it was a reasonable article, like most of hers.

>> methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
>> boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
>> were very not happy.


She didn't make a mistake, she stated an opinion that bikes shouldn't be
one the road. She never argued it as a legal point that they have no right
to be there under law.

She won't be worried in the slightest.

If you put the point in a brief and interesting bit, the letter editors
would love to publish it.

dewatf.
 
"dewatf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:31:27 GMT, Fractal wrote:
>
>> She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
>> last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to
>> do
>> the anti cyclist one.

>
> She neglected to mention that Marionite Christians were the people
> involved
> in the branch stacking exercise in the Cherrybrook branch, because that
> didn't suit her argument. She also down plays Smiths conservative
> religious
> veiws, which many in the Epping Electorate don't like.
>
> But it was a reasonable article, like most of hers.
>
>>> methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
>>> boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
>>> were very not happy.

>
> She didn't make a mistake, she stated an opinion that bikes shouldn't be
> one the road. She never argued it as a legal point that they have no right
> to be there under law.
>
> She won't be worried in the slightest.
>
> If you put the point in a brief and interesting bit, the letter editors
> would love to publish it.
>
> dewatf.


Actually, one of the main problems most of us here had with the article
(Have you been paying attention? There will be a test later.) was that she
didn't offer opinions. She held forth utter bollox as irrefutable fact.
 

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