Di2 Updates, Comments, etc.

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by larrynipon, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    Because it isn't an 'unfair' advantage?
     


  2. Camilo

    Camilo New Member

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    I wasn't thinking about unfair, just the evolution of the sport - they seem to have very specific intent not to change the basic design of the bike, even in very small ways (small aero changes), not to mention basic, major frame design features. There's no unfair advantage involved because if the rules were changed (or not), everyone would be able to follow the design parameters, it's just that the bike itself would change from what is traditional.

    Same with the electronic shifters. Not an unfair advantage issue because anyone can buy them and use them. It could be said that they don't even give an advantage to those that use them vs.those that do not (remains to be seen, I have absolutely no idea). But, to me, it is a significant change in the entire concept of what a bicycle is vs. what it is not (which is the whole purpose behind frame design rules, no?). Just my opinion though, but I do think it relates to those kind of design parameters that are so specific and enforced to keep the essence of the bike pretty traditional.
     
  3. larrynipon

    larrynipon New Member

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    Tech72...thank you. My only intention was to use this forum for what it was created for..to share experiences, and learn from the collective experience of others with the same interests. Providing background info on bike year, model, etc., help others make a decision based on cost, function, comparative experience, etc.
    I'm not gong to bother getting into a digital flame with tonyzackery...being an asshole is a large enough burden to bear. I suggest this thread be used for what it was intended...help people learn about all aspects of a sport we are passionate about. Comments like "take a chill-pill, homey. Your emotional investment in this thread is all over your sleeves. Further, your attempt to rescue the OP from some perceived damnation that doesn't exist is silly."..indicate an emotional or pharmacological induced imbalance that fortunately, is probably treatable. So don't worry Tony, it's all good.

    :D :D
     
  4. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. You hurt me terribly.
    Here, let me assuage your fragile ego: you won. I'm done.
     
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    N.B. You can actuate a Campagnolo's thumb shifters when your hands are on the crossbar by flicking the thumb lever with whichever finger is convenient (e.g., your ring finger) ... at least, I can ... the spring on the respective derailleur assists the shift (actually, YOU are simply releasing the "escape" mechanism and the derailleur's spring is effecting the shift) -- 'I' am limited to one shift at a time BUT I suppose that if you have a REALLY LARGE hand then you might be able to shift through a couple of "clicks" ...

    I first noticed this when on one of my bikes which has an older pair of Chorus shifters ... I guess the ease-of-shifting from the crossbar depends on how stiff/soft the G-springs are + how the levers are located on the bend of the handlebar ...

    Of course, your hands have to be on the hoods or drops if you want to actuate the blades.
     
  6. PeterF

    PeterF New Member

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    Good point. I will try that on tomorrow's ride. I have 2004 Record shifters with soft springs (they still shift great, so I feel no need to replace the springs yet). I never tried that before.

    Regarding the OP, not sure why we're harshing on him. He is just reporting on something new that has been in the works for many years (remember Mavic Zap or was it zaap?). Campy has dabbled with it too. This is an honest impression of an electronic system available to the pubblic. I sensed no motives here, just a guy happy with his purchase. Good for him. It does sound pretty cool. Not enough to make me switch from Campy and I still like the idea of cables, but it's nice to hear about it anyway.
     
  7. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    From the tops, I can activate the thumb levers with my pinkies and am able to go down a few cogs, like that, on the right.

    I don't know where or how the buttons were placed on the tops of pro bikes running Di2 in the Classics, but I do wonder if they could be accidentally activated when it got bumpy, the rider changed grip, and so on.

    As for the OP and his posts, my only objection is that the posts had way too much hyperbole to be considered reviews. I feel the same way about 90% or so of all journalists' reviews, with Bicycling mag and Pez being the worst offenders.

    As I said earlier, I think Di2 is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It does make possible the integration of several systems--drivetrain, computer, power measurement--but again that's just evolutionary. One thing I think that has been rarely discussed is the importance or lack of importance of tactile feedback when shifting. I don't want a system that removes the feeling of the "snick" when upshifting or downshifting. When I've tried Dura Ace in the past, I've always disliked it because it lacked the tactile feedback that Campy provides. That feedback is important, I think, for good integration of rider and bike or man and machine. I always hated the comparitively indistinct feeling of shifting on street legal motorcycles, so whenever I converted one for track use, it got a new gear selector with definite clicks (Ducati's, like Campy, always provided a very distinct mechanical feel on shifting. Maybe it's an Italian thing..... :D). To me, gaining an extra gear--and a 12-27 cassette (for climbing), it's a much more desirable development than electronic shifting.

    I've got friends that have tried Di2, one having used it now for over a month everyday (he loves it), and I remain unconvinced by its feature set. One of the friends even went back to SRAM, giving Di2 a big "meh."

    Quick releases, indexed shifting, integrated shifting/braking, and the parallelogram RD were all revolutionary. Di2 just doesn't make that cut. Hell, CF made a much bigger impact, yet it still wasn't revolutionary.
     
  8. PeterF

    PeterF New Member

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  9. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    Teeny point. 'Noticeably inferior'? Almost the same BB spindle as Chorus/Record, same bearings, just longer spindle. Essentially the same crankarms, whether they be carbon or aluminum and non treated chainrings. Less difference in UT. What was noticeable? Please don't say crank/bb flex, that is almost entirely in the frame.
     
  10. larrynipon

    larrynipon New Member

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    Interesting...everyone that rides it loves it....everyone that hasn't ridden it has opinions based on...opinions...everyone can wax poetic on the intellectual expectation...but ride it....

     
  11. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    You are obnoxious. Objectivity is certainly lost on you.
     
  12. kdelong

    kdelong Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is based on cost, I CAN"T AFFORD IT! Therefore, for me, cables are the best thing out there:).
     
  13. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Tell us, again, how Di2 doesn't cross-chain! :rolleyes:
     
  14. PeterF

    PeterF New Member

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    the Record cranks on the chorus bb will spin very freely while the centaur set-up has noticealy more friction. After that the only other differences are in the finish quality.

    In all my live I have never felt a bb flex under my 100kg carcass...:eek:
     
  15. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    For me it's based on need. Don't race, ride lots tho. Don't really like to work on my own bike. Most of my $ is in the frame(Waterford Stainless..see it on their website, the red one with fancy lugs), still use friction DT shifters cuz they work everyday. My group is only 20 years 'young', just getting broken in(C-Record Delta from about 1988). Don't have ERGO or STI or Di2 or little red frog made stuff.
     
  16. larrynipon

    larrynipon New Member

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    What objectivity? Ride it, then comment. There is no objective comment from someone that hasn't RIDDEN the equipent...everything said prior to actually experiencing the equipment ON THE ROAD is SUBJECTIVE...what's witrh you guys? I'm having an amazing experience with a new (evolutionary, revolutionary...doesn't matter) piece of equipment. Forget the debates about electronic vs. mechanical...going against the "purity" of the bike as a mechanical yada yada...
    Shimano came to market with a new "bit"...it's cool, it's fun., and it works!
    What's with all the attitude?
    Oh, by the way Alienator...get a date...

     
  17. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    Sure, the current one will allow cross-chaining, but I'll bet a next-gen Di will have an "ACS" (anti-cross-chain) feature programming into it's auto-shift computer, complete with a lighted override button. It will likely be programmed as a sequential shift pattern, so that the pro rider could just pull the + lever on the right side of the bars, or - lever on the left whenever he wanted a crisp 200 ms up or down shift. Can you imagine the race advantage to being able to get all 20 gears in numerical sequence without ever having to think about what chainring you're in?:rolleyes:
     
  18. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    It'll be supplemented by an anal probe which measures the rider's state of fatigue. If the rider is too tired, it'll override his gear choice and opt for an easier one. Unfortunately, the anal probes won't be reusable, and since they'll be attached to the computer in wiring loom, you'll have to buy a new computer after each ride.
     
  19. Feltski

    Feltski New Member

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    that was my exact thought when I first heard about theses...
     
  20. spinner32

    spinner32 New Member

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    Di2 definitely has the "wow" factor associated with it, but for most of us it's probably not an affordable option. Oh well - no reason to rip on somebody who can afford it. It's like hearing what it's like to climb in the alps or something to me - I haven't done it, but I sure love hearing what it's like. We're a curious lot as humans.

    OP, thanks for sharing - Tony, you can suck a lemon. (No emotional investment here, I just don't like you... Oops, forgot the faux-friendly smiley face, here it is --> :D )

    What are people's thoughts with the auto trim feature? I was talking to a friend of mine at the LBS, and he said it just blows you away at first when you realize there's no fine tuning necessary with the system to achieve perfect, frictionless derailleur position up front. I can certainly respect that it would be a relief, (to say the least) to know that there's little risk of dumping the chain leading into tough hill efforts in races or group rides. Though, to be fair, you can buy some of that with a chain guide for a fraction of the price. (But, honestly, who looks P.R.O. with one of those... other than the guy/gal who wins with one on? :rolleyes: )

    I'd be interested in knowing how the battery life compares to Shimano's claims. I got to see one after a supposed 1,200 miles on it, and it appeared to work flawlessly. It's nice to know that the battery "sleeps" when not in use, to avoid needless drain when not shifting. Let us know how long it goes before the little warning light device starts flashing at you. (Haha, it reminds me of the idiot lights in car dashboards - hopefully this thing won't require an oil change after 1,500 miles :p )
     
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