Diabetes Type 2 and Zocor



P

Pat

Guest
Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms of
diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological testing,
the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately stop
taking it.

The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he cannot
see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has been
told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you diabetic
people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?

Pat in TX
 
Try South Beach?
Weight loss isn't quite as dramatic as on Atkins (but imho,
at a healthier rate, my hubby has lost 20 lbs in 3 months).
It's not technically a LOW carb diet, they say you're eating
the "right" kind of carbs.. but it's not hard to follow without
eating huge amounts of red meat, eggs, cheese, and fat.
Typical diet consists of whole grains, low-fat meats, and lots
of veggies.
Also, using the liquid egg substitutes and lower-fat cheese,
canadian bacon instead of regular, etc.. could help.

Amy


"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
> losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms of
> diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
> much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
> trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological
> testing,
> the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately
> stop
> taking it.
>
> The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he
> cannot
> see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has
> been
> told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you diabetic
> people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
 
Being told to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Most
people report improvement in thei cholesterol numbers when low carbing. The
only way he can tell whether he still needs the Zocor is to stop taking it,
continue to eat the way he has been eating and follow up with tests in a few
months. Every body is different.

In news:[email protected],
Pat <[email protected]> stated
| Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
| losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the
| symptoms of diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers
| have improved so much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But,
| he has been having trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally,
| after neurological testing, the doctor said that Zocor is causing
| Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately stop taking it.
|
| The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he
| cannot see where he can continue on the Atkins way of
| eating---because he has been told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and
| most fat. Have any of you diabetic people had this conundrum? And
| what did you do to manage it?
|
| Pat in TX
 
Pat wrote:
:: Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has
:: been losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the
:: symptoms of diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers
:: have improved so much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But,
:: he has been having trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally,
:: after neurological testing, the doctor said that Zocor is causing
:: Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately stop taking it.
::
:: The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol,
:: he cannot see where he can continue on the Atkins way of
:: eating---because he has been told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and
:: most fat. Have any of you diabetic people had this conundrum? And
:: what did you do to manage it?

Did he pay attention to his cholesterol with just LC and weight loss alone?
I don't see his being T2 and needing to use Zocor as being connected. Zocor
is about cholesterol. Many LCers find improvements in the cholesterol after
weight loss. Exercise and proper diet can improve HDL too, so simply
looking at total cholesterol numbers is almost meaningless. Many times for
many folks dietary cholesterol is not even a factor in serum cholesterol.
Your friend would do well to do some research.
 
Pat wrote:
> Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has

been
> losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the

symptoms of
> diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have

improved so
> much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
> trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological

testing,
> the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to

immediately stop
> taking it.
>
> The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he

cannot
> see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he

has been
> told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you

diabetic
> people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
>
> Pat in TX


Dietary cholesterol does not equate to blood cholesterol. One has
nothing to do with the other.

If he is eating healthy natural fats from healthy animals, he will be
fine. I guarantee that if he cuts out the Zocor and refined carbs in
the diet he will have perfectly fine blood lipids.

I have been low carbing for over four years. I eat plenty of pork,
beef, and chicken fats along with cheese and other full fat dairy. I am
still waiting for the cholesterol boogie man to make his appearance. My
blood lipids are still perfectly within normal range. And I eat a lot
of high cholesterol seafood like lobster and scallops as well.

My father died from heart disease and I have a brother who has had a
heart attack. You might say that I have a familial pattern and thus an
elevated risk of CVDs. Yet my blood lipids are still perfectly normal
on a high fat, low carb diet.

The whole idea of dietary cholesterol causing high blood cholesterol is
bogus.

TC
 
Rhabdomyolysis is serious.
check: http://www.statinalert.org/mainpage.html

Fats and Cholesterol are good:
check: http://www.thincs.org/

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/


"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
> losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms of
> diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
> much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
> trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological

testing,
> the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately

stop
> taking it.
>
> The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he

cannot
> see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has

been
> told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you diabetic
> people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
 
Pat,

If your friend has brought his blood sugars down to normal using a low carb
diet, it is quite likely that his cholesterol will be normal or near normal
too.

As long as carbs are kept low, eating fat will not raise cholesterol in most
people.

If diet alone won't cut it, there is a new drug called Zetia which does not
cause the side effects that the statin drugs cause and which dramatically
lowers LDL while leaving HDL high. I tried it and lowered my cholesterol
30% in three weeks. Zetia blocks the uptake of cholesterol from the gut but
does not mess with the liver and muscles like Zocor.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly Diagnosed.htm


"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
> losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms of
> diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
> much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
> trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological

testing,
> the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately

stop
> taking it.
>
> The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he

cannot
> see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has

been
> told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you diabetic
> people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
 
On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:56:40 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
>losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms of
>diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
>much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
>trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological testing,
>the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately stop
>taking it.
>
>The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he cannot
>see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has been
>told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you diabetic
>people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
>
>Pat in TX
>


I seriously doubt that the doctor is correct on this one. Many of
us on low carb high protein diets have had leg cramps and haven't been
near a zocor.

Pj
 
: >Why those two together? A friend of mine with Type 2 diabetes has been
: >losing weight on Atkins---so much so that he no longer has the symptoms
of
: >diabetes in his blood tests. All his blood test markers have improved so
: >much that the doctor was suitably impressed. But, he has been having
: >trouble with muscle aches in his legs. Finally, after neurological
testing,
: >the doctor said that Zocor is causing Rhabdomyolysis and to immediately
stop
: >taking it.
: >
: >The problem is that without the Zocor stabilizing his cholesterol, he
cannot
: >see where he can continue on the Atkins way of eating---because he has
been
: >told to cut out bacon, eggs, cheese and most fat. Have any of you
diabetic
: >people had this conundrum? And what did you do to manage it?
: >
: >Pat in TX
: >
:
: I seriously doubt that the doctor is correct on this one. Many of
: us on low carb high protein diets have had leg cramps and haven't been
: near a zocor.
:
: Pj

Oh no--you misunderstood. This doctor did neurological studies and found
that the muscle tissue was actually breaking down. It had nothing to do
with leg cramps, per se. It was more to do with restless leg
syndrome---until the nerve conduction tests showed differently. Then, the
lab tests showed his kidneys were being affected. Serious stuff.

Pat in TX
:
 
Pat wrote:
||
|| Oh no--you misunderstood. This doctor did neurological
|| studies and found that the muscle tissue was actually
|| breaking down. It had nothing to do with leg cramps, per se.
|| It was more to do with restless leg syndrome---until the
|| nerve conduction tests showed differently. Then, the lab
|| tests showed his kidneys were being affected. Serious stuff.
||
|| Pat in TX

There are other effective statins besides Zocor that may not
have the
same effect on your friend's muscle tissue. It is not common but
some
people do have to try several statins before they find one that
works
and has no side-effects.

BJ
 
:
: There are other effective statins besides Zocor that may not
: have the
: same effect on your friend's muscle tissue. It is not common but
: some
: people do have to try several statins before they find one that
: works
: and has no side-effects.
:
: BJ

I hope so. But, right now, he is to not take the Zocor and go to have some
blood work in 6 weeks' time. Funny thing is, I too am taking Zocor (without
side effects so far as I know), but it does make me wonder....

Pat
 
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:07:11 -0600, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>:
>: There are other effective statins besides Zocor that may not
>: have the
>: same effect on your friend's muscle tissue. It is not common but
>: some
>: people do have to try several statins before they find one that
>: works
>: and has no side-effects.
>:
>: BJ
>
>I hope so. But, right now, he is to not take the Zocor and go to have some
>blood work in 6 weeks' time. Funny thing is, I too am taking Zocor (without
>side effects so far as I know), but it does make me wonder....
>
>Pat
>


I take a natural supplement called Red Yeast Rice. It works
wonders and has been used safely for hundreds of years.

PJ
 
PJx <[email protected]> wrote:
> I take a natural supplement called Red Yeast Rice. It works
> wonders and has been used safely for hundreds of years.


Red yeast rice naturally contains statins, mostly lovastatin, but
by using a supplement, you're taking it in unknown amounts that vary
from batch to batch. If you think you're taking something safer than
statin drugs, you're very mistaken.

--
jamie ([email protected])

"There's a seeker born every minute."
 
On 8 Dec 2004 01:08:12 GMT, [email protected] (jamie) wrote:

>PJx <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I take a natural supplement called Red Yeast Rice. It works
>> wonders and has been used safely for hundreds of years.

>
>Red yeast rice naturally contains statins, mostly lovastatin, but
>by using a supplement, you're taking it in unknown amounts that vary
>from batch to batch. If you think you're taking something safer than
>statin drugs, you're very mistaken.


I prefer natural foods. You are a ***** of the pharmacy mafia that
thrust chemicals on us and then hide the research results from us.

How can you defend them?

Pj
 
: >> I take a natural supplement called Red Yeast Rice. It works
: >> wonders and has been used safely for hundreds of years.
: >
: >Red yeast rice naturally contains statins, mostly lovastatin, but
: >by using a supplement, you're taking it in unknown amounts that vary
: >from batch to batch. If you think you're taking something safer than
: >statin drugs, you're very mistaken.
:
: I prefer natural foods. You are a ***** of the pharmacy mafia that
: thrust chemicals on us and then hide the research results from us.
:
: How can you defend them?
:
: Pj

Somebody disagrees with you politely and you respond like this? It's not
worth reading what a person like you writes.
<plonk>
:
 
Pat wrote:
||||| I take a natural supplement called Red Yeast Rice. It
||||| works wonders and has been used safely for hundreds of
||||| years.
||||
|||| Red yeast rice naturally contains statins, mostly
|||| lovastatin, but
|||| by using a supplement, you're taking it in unknown amounts
|||| that vary from batch to batch. If you think you're taking
|||| something safer than statin drugs, you're very mistaken.
|||
||| I prefer natural foods. You are a ***** of the pharmacy
||| mafia that thrust chemicals on us and then hide the research
||| results from us.
|||
||| How can you defend them?
|||
||| Pj
||
|| Somebody disagrees with you politely and you respond like
|| this? It's not worth reading what a person like you writes.
|| <plonk>

Pat,

PJ is another of the idiots that thinks because its 'natural'
it not a chemical. It is infact a chemical in an unprodictable
dose.

BJ
 
: Pat,
:
: PJ is another of the idiots that thinks because its 'natural'
: it not a chemical. It is infact a chemical in an unprodictable
: dose.
:
: BJ

That reminds me of the old saying that arsenic is "natural" and so it is
safe, too.

I can understand disagreement--but not that kind of disparagement. It
denotes a closed mind.

Pat
:
:
 
Pat wrote:
> : Pat,
> :
> : PJ is another of the idiots that thinks because its 'natural'
> : it not a chemical. It is infact a chemical in an unprodictable
> : dose.
> :
> : BJ
>
> That reminds me of the old saying that arsenic is "natural" and so it is
> safe, too.
>
> I can understand disagreement--but not that kind of disparagement. It
> denotes a closed mind.
>
> Pat
> :
> :
>
>

Previous Element Table of Elements Next Element


33
As
Arsenic
74.92160

Arsenic
Atomic Number: 33
Atomic Weight: 74.92160
Melting Point: 1090 K (817°C or 1503°F)
Boiling Point: 887 K (614°C or 1137°F)
Density: 5.776 grams per cubic centimeter
Phase at Room Temperature: Solid
Element Classification: Semi-metal
Period Number: 4 Group Number: 15 Group Name: Pnictogen


What's in a name? From the Latin word arsenicum, the Greek word
arsenikon and the Arabic word Az-zernikh.
Say what? Arsenic is pronounced as AR-s'n-ik.
History and Uses:
Although arsenic compounds were mined by the early Chinese, Greek and
Egyptian civilizations, it is believed that arsenic itself was first
identified by Albertus Magnus, a German alchemist, in 1250. Arsenic
occurs free in nature, but is most often found in the minerals
arsenopyrite (FeAsS), realgar (AsS) and orpiment (As2S3). Today, most
commercial arsenic is obtained by heating arsenopyrite.

Arsenic and its compounds are poisonous. They have been used to make rat
poison and some insecticides. Small amounts of arsenic are added to
germanium to make transistors. Gallium arsenide (GaAs) can produce laser
light directly from electricity.

If you were paying careful attention to the physical data listed above,
you may have noticed that arsenic's boiling point is lower than its
melting point. This occurs because these two temperatures are measured
at different atmospheric pressures. When heated at standard atmospheric
pressure, arsenic changes directly from a solid to a gas, or sublimates,
at a temperature of 887 K. In order to form liquid arsenic, the
atmospheric pressure must be increased. At 28 times standard atmospheric
pressure, arsenic melts at a temperature of 1090 K. If it were also
measured at a pressure of 28 atmospheres, arsenic's boiling point would
be higher than its melting point, as you would expect.


Estimated Crustal Abundance: 1.8 milligrams per kilogram

Estimated Oceanic Abundance: 3.7-3 milligrams per liter

Number of Stable Isotopes: 1 (View all isotope data)

Ionization Energy: 9.815 eV

Oxidation States: +5, +3, -3

Electron Shell Configuration: 1s2
2s2 2p6
3s2 3p6 3d10
4s2 4p3
 
: Arsenic
:
I remember from college chemistry class that the instructor said Arsenic was
poisonous to humans in a narrow dosage range. He told us of a case where a
person realized that he had ingested a small amount of Arsenic and so he
immediately swallowed a whole lot more. He was ill, but did not die. I wish
I had a cite....Oh. here is one:
http://94.1911encyclopedia.org/P/PO/POISON.htm

"Arsenic-eating, or the ability of some persons to take relatively large
doses of arsenic habitually, is a well-established fact. The cause of this
singular immunity from the ordinary results of arsenic is unknown."

All in all, though, it IS natural.


Pat in TX