did you used to take WURM more seriously?



cheapie

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Aug 16, 2004
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i gotta admit, there was a time when i thought he was sane. i would read his rantings against bush and think maybe he had a point and that i was just resistant to it because i had never thought about it.

then over the last year he has really REALLY seemed to lost whatever teneous grasp he once had on reality and i'm like.....hey wait a minute! what if he's been insane all along and when i was sort of agreeing with him i was actually agreeing with an insane person? :confused:

i mean, has he always been talking crazy about the gvt perpetrating 9/11, blaming bush for the zidan headbutt affair, and linking to each and every anti-bush article regardless of the incredulity it should generate in a normal person and i just never noticed?

i find myself in a conundrum. if he believes something to be true, should i automatically believe the opposite or just try to disregard his opinion altogether? hmmmm....
 
Never took him serious though he obviously takes his mission serious, which I find entertaining in an odd way.
 
I can't see the purpose of this particular thread - except as an attempt to try to start a slagging match.

I note that there is already a thread called "Dear Wurm" in this part of the site.

If no one has any objections - I think we ought to terminate this thread.
 
go ahead i guess. i just can't hardly stand going into YBS anymore cuz of all the absolutely mindless garbage he posts. and he honestly seem to be moving away from lucidity.


but feel free to close it. thx for asking.
 
cheapie said:
go ahead i guess. i just can't hardly stand going into YBS anymore cuz of all the absolutely mindless garbage he posts. and he honestly seem to be moving away from lucidity.


but feel free to close it. thx for asking.

I can leave this thread open, Cheapie.

If you can't stand going in to the YBS - why not start some threads which might be of interest to you?
(OK - you started this thread - but surely there are other subjects you're interested in which might move the discussion to what you'e interested in??
Just a thought).
 
i suppose. but if you had to pass a drunk smelly guy waving and screaming at you every day when you went into your favorite coffee shop wouldn't you want to have to guy restrained and cleaned up a bit rather than finding somewhere else to get your cup of joe?


not a perfect illustration but you get my point.
 
cheapie said:
i suppose. but if you had to pass a drunk smelly guy waving and screaming at you every day when you went into your favorite coffee shop wouldn't you want to have to guy restrained and cleaned up a bit rather than finding somewhere else to get your cup of joe?


not a perfect illustration but you get my point.

talking of that - I had to take a train yesterday to Dublin (easier than driving).
This lunatic was on the train screaming obscenities at people - like the guy in your analogy above.
I entered the train carriage behind him - he didn't see me in the seat behind him.
Lots of commuters started to fill the train from the opposite end of the carriage - and this guy was "**** youse all..." this and "you're all a showers of ****s....." that.
People wouldn't remain in the carriage as they entered from their end.
I stayed put (he still hadn't seen me).

Next thing he turned round and seeing me - started the routine "**** you....." blah, blah.

As I've done throughout my life - I did what I was always told to do and that is to confront bullies head on.
I gently said to him "what did you sayto me?".
Immediately he stopped cursing.
He knew that I wasn't going to take any shite from him.
He moved out of the carriage and I didn't see him again.

If people allow themselves to be intimidated they'll be intimidated.
 
He's entertaining, that is true.

Felt_Rider said:
Never took him serious though he obviously takes his mission serious, which I find entertaining in an odd way.
 
limerickman said:
As I've done throughout my life - I did what I was always told to do and that is to confront bullies head on.
I gently said to him "what did you sayto me?".
Immediately he stopped cursing.
He knew that I wasn't going to take an shite from him.
He moved out of the carriage and I didn't see him again.

If people allow themselves to be intimidated they'll be intimidated.
Good for you
I feel the same way. I can't stand bullies. I feel real encouraged to fight when something like that happens, but in todays American law if you even lay a hand on a person even if the bystanders want to see you pound the guy the law will condemn you and not the bully so I try my best to show restraint.
 
cheapie said:
i gotta admit, there was a time when i thought he was sane. i would read his rantings against bush and think maybe he had a point and that i was just resistant to it because i had never thought about it.

then over the last year he has really REALLY seemed to lost whatever teneous grasp he once had on reality and i'm like.....hey wait a minute! what if he's been insane all along and when i was sort of agreeing with him i was actually agreeing with an insane person? :confused:

i mean, has he always been talking crazy about the gvt perpetrating 9/11, blaming bush for the zidan headbutt affair, and linking to each and every anti-bush article regardless of the incredulity it should generate in a normal person and i just never noticed?

i find myself in a conundrum. if he believes something to be true, should i automatically believe the opposite or just try to disregard his opinion altogether? hmmmm....
I can assure you Cheapass that I have a much more "sane" outlook on what this country and it's politicians and corporations have been up to the past several years than you or anyone like you has. All I have to do is look around to see what the results are. That tells me that something is very wrong with the situation; unlike other's who are simple enough to buy the pablum that's spoon fed to them every day by the mass media.

First off, over the last year things have gotten more and more out of control with what the Bu$hCo's have been doing. It never stops with them, it's at least weekly now that there is some new domestic illegality or heinous overseas crime revealed.

Whether you and your ilk like it or not, I'm going to do my best to expose these criminals for what they are, because you damned sure are not going to hear about it from the nightly TV news or even in most larger newspapers.

How long is it going to take for you rubes to understand that the vast majority of the public airwaves and print media are now run not by some "liberal press" - which may have had some truth to it 30 years ago - but are owned and directed by right-wing ideologues and corporations? That is a basic truth, go ahead and find out for yourself.

Even the so-called "liberal" New York Times pounded the war drums supporting the invasion of Iraq, when they knew all along that Bu$hCo's fear-mongering stories were lies. Just ask Judith Miller.

So now, why do you think Congress is trying to limit and interfere with the internet?? It has done fine for itself for quite awhile without gov't intervention, but now they've realized that the 'net is the last place where free and honest communication with the public can happen.

You should start putting 2 + 2 together, and realize that yep, sometimes it DOES add up to 4. :rolleyes:

As tough as it may be to believe that your own gov't - the lying, greedy jackasses you and I might have actually voted for - is involved in the most despicable depravity you could imagine, it is nonetheless true.

I would say that if anyone is "insane", it is you and any and all Republican/right-wingers that still back the Bush regime - knowing what we all now know about what they have done, and have even shamelessly admitted to.
 
Wurm said:
for the sake of this argument, let's say i agree with everything you just said.


that still doesn't make saying the US gvt committed 9/11 any less nonsensical. or any other the other crazy things you say.

i can fully understand being ticked at the current administration. i am also. but getting from that position to one where you take every single anti-bush story, article, position, etc. at face value is an enourmous leap. one which sane people do not make.


and for the last time, i am not a fan of bush. just because i think you have a collection of tinfoil hats does not mean i endorse bush. it would be nice and simple for you if i was merely disagreeing with you because you're cracking on someone i support, but sadly that's not the case.
 
2FAST4U said:
Good for you....
Edited by Moderator... but he forgot to let anyone know.....Hell, I guess it's better than having an entire post deleted...again, again and again....
 
cheapie said:
If you had the clear sense enough to acknowledge the evidence against Bu$hCo vis-a-vis 9-11, it would be non-sensical not to agree with what I've said.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

FYI, I don't take every anti-Bush article, position, etc. at face value. Far from it in fact. The ones I post here are usually the ones that I've looked into and stand up the best under scrutiny.

However, Bu$hCo has violated the law (both domestic and international) so many times and so egregiously that it would be hard not to agree with nearly everything that is published about them.
 
Absolutely. For example:

9-11 "conspiracy theorists" vindicated: Pentagon deliberately misled public opinion; military officials made false statements to Congress and to the 9-11 Commission

Aug 4, 2006, 00:15



Recent revelations by members of the 9-11 Commission (quoted in the Washington Post, 2 August 2006) have far reaching implications.

They confirm that the Pentagon was involved in criminal wrongdoing by deliberately distorting and/or withholding information concerning the September 2001 attacks:

"Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate." (WP, 2 August 2006)

These revelations uphold what has been documented regarding 9-11 in several carefully researched studies, which the mainstream media continues to identify as "conspiracy theories".

It would appear that the 9-11 "Conspiracy Theorists" have at last been vindicated. The information now released and yet to come is that the Pentagon was involved in acts of cover-up at the highest levels of the military hierarchy.

"Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said." (Ibid)

If this were known to the 9-11 Commission, why was it withheld?

More generally, why was the contradictory evidence presented by the Pentagon, the White House and the CIA taken at face value. Why did the 9-11 Commission uphold the lies and falsehoods in its "authoritative" report?

Damage control

The Commission was not misled. The Commission deliberately and consciously distorted the facts regarding 9-11. A large part of the 9-11 narrative as presented in its report is fabricated.

The Pentagon's top brass (including senior NORAD officials) were involved in acts of perjury with a view to misleading public opinion. If the Commission doubted the veracity of the information presented, why did it replicate the lies and falsehoods in its report?

These recent revelations have all the appearances of "damage control": they consist in admitting that the Pentagon withheld information, without questioning the broader findings of the 9-11 Commission Report:

"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview. "The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. . . . This is not spin. This is not true." (Ibid).

Arnold, who could not be reached for comment yesterday, told the commission in 2004 that he did not have all the information unearthed by the panel when he testified earlier. Other military officials also denied any intent to mislead the panel.

John F. Lehman, a Republican commission member and former Navy secretary, said in a recent interview that he believed the panel may have been lied to but that he did not believe the evidence was sufficient to support a criminal referral.

"My view of that was that whether it was willful or just the fog of stupid bureaucracy, I don't know," Lehman said. "But in the order of magnitude of things, going after bureaucrats because they misled the commission didn't seem to make sense to me." (Ibid).

The integrity of the 9-11 commission members remains unscathed. The broader issue of sheer fabrication, presenting al Qaeda as the architect of the WTC attacks is not mentioned. Neither is the issue of Operation Able Danger, the Pentagon's secret operation, which consisted essentially in fabricating terrorist cells ahead of 9-11:

"Atta," according to the Kean report, was the �tactical leader of the 9/11 plot.� He was the pilot who on that dreadful morning flew the first plane, American Airlines 11, into the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York. It was Atta�s face, on television and in newspapers across the world, that became the symbol of Islamic terrorism. And it was Atta�s name -- not the names of any of the 18 other hijackers allegedly lead by Atta on that day -- that was cited by international security researchers. Atta was, as the Kean report stresses, �the tactical commander of the operation in the United States.� According to both the Bush administration and the official 9/11 Commission report, he was working on the orders of Osama Bin Laden who, from remote Afghanistan, controlled the entire operation.

Now, almost exactly four years after 9/11, the facts appear to have been turned upside down. We now learn that Atta was also connected to a top secret operation of the Pentagon�s Special Operations Command (SOCOM) in the US. According to Army reserve Lieutenant-Colonel Anthony Shaffer, a top secret Pentagon project code-named Able Danger had identified Atta and three other 9/11 hijackers as members of an al-Qaida cell more than a year before the attacks.

Able Danger was an 18-month highly classified operation tasked, according to Shaffer, with �developing targeting information for al-Qaida on a global scale,� and used data-mining techniques to look for �patterns, associations, and linkages.� He said he himself had first encountered the names of the four hijackers in mid-2000." (See Daniele Ganser's study on Operation Able Danger
Link
 
http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm
"A 112-page document drawn up by Ramzi Binalshibh, of Al Qaeda, and released by Qatar-based TV station Al Jazeera, admits that the organisation was involved in the terrorist attacks in the USA on September 11th and warns of a wave of new terrorist activities.

The document, called “The new reality of the Crusades” is about the justification for the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001 and celebrates the destruction caused by the attacks on the twin towers and the Pentagon, described by the author as “That glorious Tuesday”.

The document tries to justify the attacks by quoting from Islamic Sunnah, or teachings, such as “For anyone that has followed the events, it is clear that what happened in America was a punishment from God for all the injustice and oppression which America has done to the nations everywhere in the world, especially to the Moslems”.

It claims that the main planners for the attacks were Khaled Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh and the four pilots of the hijacked aircraft, Mohammed Atta, Marwan Al-Shehhi, Ziad Samir Jarrah and Hani Hanjour, although it attributes the responsibility for the attacks on the USA, stating that the Koran stipulates that it is legal to destroy any country which shows aggressiveness against Moslem nations, claiming also that “if the infidel fixes as objectives women, children and old people, then the Moslems can do the same thing”.

The document declares that “America converted itself into a country at war when it broke the peace and helped the Jews, over 50 years ago, to occupy Palestine…the day it bombed Iraq and began the blockade, when it attacked Sudan and when it bombed and blockaded Afghanistan and attacked the Moslems there”.

It is claimed that the attacks were a pre-emptive strike because the USA was already planning to attack Afghanistan: “America had drawn up a plan to invade Afghanistan and to make an attack there by diverse countries long before the events in America”.

The author of the document goes on to gloat over the fact that the USA lost around one billion USD in revenue after the attacks on September 11th, and the fact that it lost 2,000 financial experts, suffered a Stock Exchange crash, the USD lost value and airline companies went bankrupt.

Finally, the document promises “thousands more attacks” like September 11th to make that event “the beginning of the end for America”.

Timothy BANCROFT-HINCHEY PRAVDA."


Wurm said:
Absolutely. For example:

Link
 
Nice try Crappyshorts, but this is more hopeful rantings from extremist Muslims, used as red meat propaganda to stir up the masses, but highly doubtful that it's an an accurate story.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
I go back to the cost/benefit analysis as regards 9/11?

What was the cost ? And who stood to benefit most ?

There are serious gaps in what the various commissions reported in the aftermath of 9/11.
Indeed the conduct of the central players like Bush has never really been able to standup to questioning.

I don't believe that what we have heard about 9/11 is the truth.

The fact that the truth has been witheld, this allows various pro and anti conspiracy theories to germinate and fester.