Dietary treatments for obesity are ineffective



T

TC

Guest
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/309/6955/655

BMJ 1994;309:655-656 (10 September)

Education and debate
Controversies in Management: Dietary treatments for obesity are
ineffective
C S Wooley, D M Garner

University of Cincinnati, College of Medicine, Cincinnati, Ohio 45267,
USA Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy and Research, Bala Cynwood,
Pennsylvania 19001, USA Correspondence to: Dr Wooley.

It is surprising that debate continues about the effectiveness of
dietary treatments for obesity. Perhaps this is partly related to
ambiguity in the term effectiveness. It is well known that most
treatments produce temporary weight loss. But it is equally well known
that 90% to 95% of those who lose weight regain it within several
years.1 This poor outcome has led to charges that traditional
treatments for obesity should be abandoned and countercharges that it
is irresponsible to withhold treatment for such a serious problem. The
failure of reducing diets to produce lasting improvement was recently
reiterated at a National Institutes of Health consensus conference,
which also warned about the adverse effects of treatment.2

The failure of fat people to achieve a goal they seem to want - and to
want almost above all else - must now be admitted for what it is: a
failure not of those people but of the methods of treatment that are
used. It is no longer a mystery why diets have such a poor long term
record of success. Indeed the failure of obese people to become or
remain thin by "normalising" their food intake follows logically from
studies on the heritability of obesity,3 the biology of weight
regulation,4 and the physiology of energy metabolism.5

Demand for treatment is not a justification

Yet many remain enthusiastic about treatment. It could be said that the
main evidence for the value of dieting is that health professionals
continue to prescribe it. Inertia feeds on itself, failure to change
coming to serve as a silent argument that no change is needed. However,
this only partially accounts for the resistance to change among those
treating obesity. Recent findings regarding the benefits of antibiotics
in treating ulcers and the comparative outcomes of procedures for
emergency cardiac care have been rapidly translated into medical
practice. In these cases doctors have only had to adjust what they do;
in the case of obesity treatment, however, there is no replacement
procedure. The question is whether to abandon treatment, putting many
specialists out of business, in the face of relentless popular demand.
Desperate consumers are willing to bear the burden of responsibility
for failure in exchange for continuing access to treatment. This
desperation is best illustrated by Ravitch and Brolin's observation
that patients who had had obesity surgery were unwilling to consider
reversal even when it was discussed in terms of saving their lives.6

As if to avert the central question by introducing more variables, the
debate has shifted from the universal mandate for one treatment, to the
matching of available treatments (from self directed programmes to
surgery) to individual, depending on level of obesity and factors such
as diet history.7 Notably, even for patients as little as 5% overweight
the option of withholding weight loss treatment does not appear on the
decision tree. Wadden has argued that the "no treatment" option "cannot
be universally endorsed until there are definitive research data."8
This is an unusual twist in medical science: demanding proof of
effectiveness of no treatment rather than of active intervention.
Although the no treatment stance has been viewed as radical, it is
actually quite conservative. The drug industry has to show both safety
and efficacy before commercial approval of its products, and, in
general, the burden of proof lies with those advocating treatment.

Health effects of dieting

Proponents of dietary treatment point to the health risks of obesity.
Amassing evidence that weight loss would be beneficial does not make
treatment any more effective. Therapies with modest success rates are
defensibly used when the prognosis for an untreated person is poor and
treatment poses no additional risks. But in the case of dietary
treatments for obesity neither of these assumptions is clearly met.
Success rates are not even modest, and the health risks associated with
untreated obesity remain controversial, largely because in societies in
which dieting is common the effects of high weight are confounded with
the effects of weight cycling.1,9 Dieting not only fails the criterion
of being without risk but has been implicated in increased morbidity
and mortality in several large studies.1,9,10 Dieting often has
negative effects on psychosocial functioning and can lead to eating
disorders such as the binge eating disorder and even bulimia nervosa.11
Finally, dietary treatments are costly, unpleasant, and, when they
fail, tend to damage self esteem.

Treat the patient not obesity

Of course obese patients should be treated for illnesses and injuries
like everyone else. They should be counselled to eat a healthy balanced
diet and to get appropriate amounts of exercise. They should be treated
for the emotional disorders they have and not, as is so often the case,
ones they do not have. They should be treated for eating disorders such
as binge eating, if they have them. Some must be helped to stop chronic
overeating caused by despair over repeated failure. Some will need help
in establishing "normal" eating patterns after decades of diets and
diet rebound. They should be helped to deal with the social and
emotional implications of remaining fat and to improve their body
image. One of the highest priorities should be to protect them from
blame for their condition and the enormous costs resulting from fat
prejudice.

Gotmaker et al recently put the costs of prejudice in terms that
everyone can understand: $6710 (pounds sterling 4470) a year in lost
earnings, as well as fewer years of education and a reduced chance of
marriage for American women in the top 5% of weight for height.12 Many
previous studies have documented discrimination in admission to
colleges, employment, promotion, access to housing, and attribution of
personality traits.11,13 In a commentary Stunkard and Sorensen
criticised the medical profession for being "among the chief offenders"
in the perpetuation of prejudice and issued a "call to action against
the stigmatisation of obesity."14

But how? Prejudice is revived daily in the routine interactions of
doctor and patient in which patients are offered dietary treatments and
fail to benefit from them. This ongoing failure demands a culprit:
either the treatment is flawed or the patient is flawed, failing to
comply with the appropriate remedy. As the more credible medical
profession is refusing to blame its prescriptions patients are left to
absorb the stigma of failure.

We should stop offering ineffective treatments aimed at weight loss.
Researchers who think they have invented a better mousetrap should test
it in controlled research before setting out their bait for the entire
population. Only by admitting that our treatments do not work - and
showing that we mean it by refraining from offering them - can we begin
to undo a century of recruiting fat people for failure.

***********

And start offering effective solutions like low carb diets.

The truth is timeless. In case anyone wants to make a big todo about
the date of this piece.

Twelve years and counting and we still have assholes pushing low fat
dieting.

TC
 
TC wrote:
> Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
>
>>TC wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BMJ 1994;309:655-656 (10 September)
>>>Controversies in Management: Dietary treatments for obesity are
>>>ineffective
>>>C S Wooley, D M Garner

>>
>>http://naturalhealthperspective.com/exercise/losing-fat-without-dieting.html

>
>
> What is the point of your trolling? Either add something useful to the
> discussion or FOAD.


Actually, the link presents quite interesting way how to loose the fat,
one that could in fact work pretty well (at least in short term): offer
$60000 and Lamborghini to the person that looses most fat in 12 weeks
whatever method he uses:)

That tells us something about importance of motivation vs. method, I
guess :)

Mirek
 
"Mirek Fidler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually, the link presents quite interesting way how to loose the
> fat, one that could in fact work pretty well (at least in short term):
> offer $60000 and Lamborghini to the person that looses most fat in 12
> weeks whatever method he uses:)
>
> That tells us something about importance of motivation vs. method, I
> guess :)


Ever notice that when people are truly motivated to lose weight be it
for a Lamborghini prize or a class reunion they do two things - eat less
AND exercise. It's as grossly simple as use more calories you take in.
If one is not motivated to rapidly lose tonnage, simply adding exercise
such that caloric burn is more than input will work. We are an ever
increasing population of lazy ass people all looking for a magic pill
and have it delivered by remote control if not some dumb ass fad diet to
keep them alive.

When will the light bulb go off? Dear Pavlov, every time we bend our
elbow our mouth opens for food.

-DF
 
TC wrote:

> Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?


Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?

The topic of this THREAD is: Dietary treatments for obesity are
ineffective.

You have my condolences.
 
Mirek Fidler wrote:

> TC wrote:
> > Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> >
> >>TC wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>BMJ 1994;309:655-656 (10 September)
> >>>Controversies in Management: Dietary treatments for obesity are
> >>>ineffective
> >>>C S Wooley, D M Garner
> >>
> >>http://naturalhealthperspective.com/exercise/losing-fat-without-dieting.html

> >
> >
> > What is the point of your trolling? Either add something useful to the
> > discussion or FOAD.

>
> Actually, the link presents quite interesting way how to loose the fat,
> one that could in fact work pretty well (at least in short term): offer
> $60000 and Lamborghini to the person that looses most fat in 12 weeks
> whatever method he uses:)
>
> That tells us something about importance of motivation vs. method, I
> guess :)


Actually, the EAS supplement people have a new contest every year.

I believe the winners get a new corvette and some cash prize money.

Of course, it shows that they make so much money on these supplements
that they can afford to give away all these prizes to about 10 winners
every year.
 
Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> TC wrote:
>
> > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?

>
> Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?
>
> The topic of this THREAD is: Dietary treatments for obesity are
> ineffective.
>
> You have my condolences.


Are you still on the low fat bandwagon or not?

TC
 
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:44:22 GMT, Doug Freese wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

> Ever notice that when people are truly motivated to lose weight be it
> for a Lamborghini prize or a class reunion they do two things - eat less
> AND exercise. It's as grossly simple as use more calories you take in.
> If one is not motivated to rapidly lose tonnage, simply adding exercise
> such that caloric burn is more than input will work. We are an ever
> increasing population of lazy ass people all looking for a magic pill
> and have it delivered by remote control if not some dumb ass fad diet to
> keep them alive.


I fully agree with you.

BUT...

if you eat *satiating* and *palatable* foods, it's easier... ;)


--
Enrico C

* cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *
 
> I fully agree with you.
>
> BUT...
>
> if you eat *satiating* and *palatable* foods, it's easier... ;)


Actually, *satiating* and *unpalatable* could work even better :)

Mirek
 
"TC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
>> TC wrote:
>>
>> > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?

>>
>> Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?
>>
>> The topic of this THREAD is: Dietary treatments for obesity are
>> ineffective.
>>
>> You have my condolences.

>
> Are you still on the low fat bandwagon or not?


Are you on you low carb wagon? Is ironhead on his iron kick? Is banmilk
still tilting at his/her windmill? Very few people here without some
strong bias with questionable scientific backing. And you have the balls
to question other people motivation? Mucho gonads
 
Doug Freese wrote:
> "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> >> TC wrote:
> >>
> >> > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?
> >>
> >> Perhaps, if you were to concentrate?
> >>
> >> The topic of this THREAD is: Dietary treatments for obesity are
> >> ineffective.
> >>
> >> You have my condolences.

> >
> > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon or not?

>
> Are you on you low carb wagon? Is ironhead on his iron kick? Is banmilk
> still tilting at his/her windmill? Very few people here without some
> strong bias with questionable scientific backing. And you have the balls
> to question other people motivation? Mucho gonads


So far, my "biased" ideas are winning the day.

Low carb does work better than low fat. Low carb is healthier than low
fatt.

Refined carbs cause chronic disease.

Real food, real meat, real produce is good heathy food.

Manufactured, processed, high-carb **** is not food and is not healthy.
Todays milk is too processed. HFCS is one of the main causes of the
exploding rates of obesity and diabetes.

And no pill will fix that. No pill will make us healthy.

Pork fat rules.

TC
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mirek Fidler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Actually, the link presents quite interesting way how to loose the fat,
>> one that could in fact work pretty well (at least in short term): offer
>> $60000 and Lamborghini to the person that looses most fat in 12 weeks
>> whatever method he uses:)
>>
>> That tells us something about importance of motivation vs. method, I
>> guess :)

>
> Ever notice that when people are truly motivated to lose weight be it for
> a Lamborghini prize or a class reunion they do two things - eat less AND
> exercise. It's as grossly simple as use more calories you take in. If one
> is not motivated to rapidly lose tonnage, simply adding exercise such that
> caloric burn is more than input will work. We are an ever increasing
> population of lazy ass people all looking for a magic pill and have it
> delivered by remote control if not some dumb ass fad diet to keep them
> alive.
>
> When will the light bulb go off? Dear Pavlov, every time we bend our elbow
> our mouth opens for food.
>
> -DF


Exercise alone will not help you lose weight. You just get hungrier. Dietary
intervention is a "necessary evil".

However, from my experience, it alone can help you keep weight off.
 
TC wrote:

> Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?


I do NOT have any pet issues.

I just like to play with Kooks, such as yourself, who do.

Just thouight that you might want to know.
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is a biological factor of the
mind-body connection. Weighing in at 17 web pages, The Nutrition of a
Healthy Diet ( http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/ ) is now with
more documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.
 
Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> TC wrote:
>
> > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?

>
> I do NOT have any pet issues.


Yes or no would suffice. Afraid to own up to the fact that you've been
wrong all this time, banana boy?

>
> I just like to play with Kooks, such as yourself, who do.
>
> Just thouight that you might want to know.
> --
> John Gohde,
> Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!
>
> The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is a biological factor of the
> mind-body connection. Weighing in at 17 web pages, The Nutrition of a
> Healthy Diet ( http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/ ) is now with
> more documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.


How's the brain damage? Getting any better?

TC
 
"TC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Low carb does work better than low fat. Low carb is healthier than low
> fatt.


No eating balanced is the best and yes without the cheap sugar goods.
Lots of yummy grains, vegetables, fruits with a little meat. By God that
looks just like the Harvard School of Public Health. Are they on the
take also?

> Refined carbs cause chronic disease.


Too many calories of any damn food causes obesity or at least a severe
imbalance which in turn starts mud slide to chronic problems.


> Real food, real meat, real produce is good heathy food.


I agree but we must be careful with to limit meat. I don't really trust
organic meat unless I see what they eat is not fertilized ****.

> And no pill will fix that. No pill will make us healthy.


Wait, two places we agree but there are a bazillion people out in TV
land that are gorging themselves until the pill shows up.

> Pork fat rules.


Oh yes, the other white meat. Like any meat, eaten in moderation.

-DF
 
"Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Exercise alone will not help you lose weight. You just get hungrier.
> Dietary intervention is a "necessary evil".


Ideally your are correct. We need to do both. The exercise will not just
have you thinner but a lot healthier. Last time I looked the heart and
some of those other trivial organs are muscles and need to exercised to
stay healthy.

> However, from my experience, it alone can help you keep weight off.


And what people do to win cars and get into a size or two smaller dress,
pants for the family weeding or Cub Med cruise and then give it up once
the superficial crash goal is met.
 
Doug Freese wrote:
> "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Low carb does work better than low fat. Low carb is healthier than low
> > fatt.

>
> No eating balanced is the best and yes without the cheap sugar goods.
> Lots of yummy grains, vegetables, fruits with a little meat. By God that
> looks just like the Harvard School of Public Health. Are they on the
> take also?


Eating balanced? No, eating real foods. The "eating balanced" **** is
another ubiquitous term without any real meaning.

>
> > Refined carbs cause chronic disease.

>
> Too many calories of any damn food causes obesity or at least a severe
> imbalance which in turn starts mud slide to chronic problems.


Calories mean squat. If calories were the only thing, then anyone would
be able to easily lose all the weight they wanted by applying even a
modicum of effort. There is no shortage of low calorie foods to
substitute for higher calorie foods. It ain't hard to find low calorie
foods. And it is very easy to portion control, even over a longer term.
Restricting fat is easy too. There is plenty of low fat foods. But the
fly in the ointment is simply that none of that works. The calorie math
fails to predict the results in almost every case.

Whether the problem is fundamental in the nature of the calorie theory
or in the unwieldliness of the food/calorie quantification
estimations/average or in the day to day estimations of the caloric
contents of a given plate of food, IT DOES NOT WORK. For all practical
purposes, counting calories do not work. Period.

When a given theoretical methodology fails to achieve the desired
results is more than 95% of cases in the real world, it is time to give
up on it and go on to consider more useful and more successful
methodologies.

Give it up already.

>
>
> > Real food, real meat, real produce is good heathy food.

>
> I agree but we must be careful with to limit meat. I don't really trust
> organic meat unless I see what they eat is not fertilized ****.


I could say the same with any foodstuff. Like bean sprouts and e. coli.
Any food crop and fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides.

But real food, without excessive or any processing or refining, will
always, always, always be the healthier alternative.

>
> > And no pill will fix that. No pill will make us healthy.

>
> Wait, two places we agree but there are a bazillion people out in TV
> land that are gorging themselves until the pill shows up.
>
> > Pork fat rules.

>
> Oh yes, the other white meat. Like any meat, eaten in moderation.
>
> -DF


The essential fatty acids come from animals. The essential proteins
come from animals. The best foods in the world are bone broths and
organ meats with plenty of animal fats.

Refined grain products and manufactured and refined vegetable fats are
fake foods and foreign to what we evolved to eat. That is the simple
genetics of the situation. We evolved eating certain foods, when we go
too far off that simple path of eating what we evolved to eat, we run
into serious chronic disease. Diabetes has tripled in 30 year. Obesity
has exploded in thirty year. CVDs have exploded in 30 years. HFCS
consumption has exploded in 30 years. Margarine and trans fat
consumption has increase greatly in the last 30 years. Eating from
boxes has become the norm in the last thirty years.

We need to get back to eating real foods prepared in our own homes as
we used to prepare them.

Instant foods are not real foods.

TC
 
TC wrote:
> Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> > TC wrote:
> >
> > > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?

> >
> > I do NOT have any pet issues.

>
> Yes or no would suffice. Afraid to own up to the fact that you've been
> wrong all this time.


I am right, and you are an ****!

How many times do I have to say this, Dolt?

If I advocate any particular diet, I advocate the Cretan Mediterranean
Diet. The original Cretan Mediterranean Diet is a high fat 40% fat
diet The recommended version for sedentary people, like yourself, is
30% fat.

Any fool who knows anything at all about nutrition knows that it is a
person's activity level that determines the level of fat in their diet
that they can safely consume. Americans do not do physically demanding
work all day long. Ergo, the recommended diet is 30% fat. There is
one big exception, however. If you suffer from Syndrom-X, or are sugar
sensitive, then it is 35% fat with 5% more protein.

My dietary recommendations have been published and have not changed in
over 4 years.

I have a web site on this. Read it, dumb ****!

Just thought that you might want to know.
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is a biological factor of the
mind-body connection. Weighing in at 17 web pages, The Nutrition of a
Healthy Diet ( http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/ ) is now with
more documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.
 
Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> TC wrote:
> > Mr-Natural-Health wrote:
> > > TC wrote:
> > >
> > > > Are you still on the low fat bandwagon?
> > >
> > > I do NOT have any pet issues.

> >
> > Yes or no would suffice. Afraid to own up to the fact that you've been
> > wrong all this time.

>
> I am right, and you are an ****!
>
> How many times do I have to say this, Dolt?
>
> If I advocate any particular diet, I advocate the Cretan Mediterranean
> Diet. The original Cretan Mediterranean Diet is a high fat 40% fat
> diet The recommended version for sedentary people, like yourself, is
> 30% fat.
>
> Any fool who knows anything at all about nutrition knows that it is a
> person's activity level that determines the level of fat in their diet
> that they can safely consume. Americans do not do physically demanding
> work all day long. Ergo, the recommended diet is 30% fat. There is
> one big exception, however. If you suffer from Syndrom-X, or are sugar
> sensitive, then it is 35% fat with 5% more protein.


Why does ones activity level affect the level of fat they can safely
consume? Why is this the case? Are you talking about safely consuming
without weight gain, or safely consume without the appearance of
chronic disease, or both?

I don't think you know what you just said. Nor can you prove it.

>
> My dietary recommendations have been published and have not changed in
> over 4 years.


So you advocate restricting fat intake, albeit based on activity levels
for some strange and unexplained reasons.

Please explain how Inuits and Eskimos ate up to 90% or more of their
diets as fats and still were very healthy, even in their long sedentary
winter months.

Would you recommend that they have restricted their fat intake to 30%?
And for what advantage?

>
> I have a web site on this. Read it, dumb ****!
>
> Just thought that you might want to know.
> --
> John Gohde,
> Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!


Achieving good health is not repeating by rote what you found in some
book somewhere either.

TC