Dieting vs training

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by [email protected], Mar 19, 2008.

  1. I want to get stronger, and to lose weight. How mutually exclusive are
    these goals? If they are, how should I prioritize them?

    I have been sticking to eating more or less to 2500 kcal per day
    irrespective of how much I ride (if at all) that day. On some days,
    like today where I did a hilly 165km I have a daily calorie deficit of
    at least 4000, probably more. On more moderate days the deficit is
    between 500-2000. On non ride days, and certain days I have a surplus
    of maybe 500.

    Is this deficit going to negate some of the fitness gains these rides
    might otherwise promote?

    If I had to chose, I'd rather weigh less than be stronger, but I want
    to have my cake and eat it too!

    Joseph
     


  2. On Mar 19, 9:19 am, "[email protected]"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I want to get stronger, and to lose weight. How mutually exclusive are
    > these goals? If they are, how should I prioritize them?


    Dumbass,

    If one's body fat percentage were in the single digits this might be a
    legitimate question. In your case? Not so much.

    BTW, on the Styrkeproven, were you wearing a jacket? Don't.
     
  3. On Mar 19, 7:49 pm, [email protected] wrote:
    > On Mar 19, 10:05 am, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > BTW, on the Styrkeproven, were you wearing a jacket? Don't.

    >
    > Ah, yes. I forgot I'd seen this:http://tinyurl.com/29uwfz


    Sucker that I am, I coughed up the $40 for the digital version:

    http://arbitrary.org/dovre_2007.jpg

    So why no jacket? Parachute or heat?

    Last year was crap weather. If it's like that again this year I'll
    wear wind tights and a very slim fitting Windtex jacket. If it is
    normal conditions, I'll go with a similar outfit to the picture. But
    I've got new leggings that don't strangle my thighs.

    No way I'd wear a parachute rain jacket like some of my buddies
    donned:

    http://teampf.wordpress.com/bilder/

    Most were way optimistic about the weather and suffered. They way I
    look at it is that in that race, the likelihood of being too cold at
    some point is almost gauranteed. The likelihood of being too hot is
    virtually nil. So I plan to overdress a bit. That might make me sweat
    a bit too which will help move fluids through which is an important
    part of my fueling strategy.

    Joseph
     
  4. On Mar 19, 12:24 pm, "[email protected]"
    > So why no jacket? Parachute or heat?


    Parachute. Actually, looking at that photo, it'd be a parachute on a
    parachute. Aero position is key but that photo makes it look like
    you're never going to have the CdA of a little guy. Still, you're
    probably on the cusp of being able to stick with the team all the way
    to Oslo so it may make sense to pay attention to even smallish effects
    (and a floppy rain jacket is actually not a very small effect). At
    least for me, arm warmers and tight short-sleeve jersey are clearly
    better than a loose-fitting long-sleeve jersey that wrinkles on your
    sleeves and shoulders; two pairs of arm warmers and two jerseys are
    better than a jersey and a jacket. Next to positional changes, wearing
    tighter clothing has pretty good bang-per-buck in terms of CdA.

    Do you have enough flexibility to go to a smaller position?
     
  5. On Mar 19, 9:04 pm, [email protected] wrote:
    > On Mar 19, 12:24 pm, "[email protected]"
    >
    > > So why no jacket? Parachute or heat?

    >
    > Parachute. Actually, looking at that photo, it'd be a parachute on a
    > parachute. Aero position is key but that photo makes it look like
    > you're never going to have the CdA of a little guy. Still, you're
    > probably on the cusp of being able to stick with the team all the way
    > to Oslo so it may make sense to pay attention to even smallish effects
    > (and a floppy rain jacket is actually not a very small effect). At
    > least for me, arm warmers and tight short-sleeve jersey are clearly
    > better than a loose-fitting long-sleeve jersey that wrinkles on your
    > sleeves and shoulders; two pairs of arm warmers and two jerseys are
    > better than a jersey and a jacket. Next to positional changes, wearing
    > tighter clothing has pretty good bang-per-buck in terms of CdA.
    >
    > Do you have enough flexibility to go to a smaller position?


    That pic is on a 4-5% hill, going sloooow. I had the bars extra high
    for that race so I could stay in the drops virtually the whole time. I
    was also worried about my back. I have since flipped the stem, and I
    have been working on dropping the bars 2.5mm at a time every week or
    so. Now it's flipped back down with 10mm of spacers moved to the top.
    No back problems yet, but I haven't ridden in the drops for more than
    2 hours yet. My bar height is mostly dictated by my far aft seat to
    help reduce hand problems.

    A big CdA problem for me is helmets. This idea that one size fits most
    is dumb. They end up sitting on the top front of my head sticking
    several inches into the air (above everyone else, too.)

    It would be nice to save some energy with tighter clothes, but my real
    problem is the hills. On the flats they told me to cool it a few
    times, but on the hills I was doomed.

    Funny about the wrinkles. I hadn't noticed that. When I stand up
    straight, the shirt is quite trim. But with hunched shoulders it's a
    different story. I'm also looking for shoe covers that fit.

    Joseph
     
  6. <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A big CdA problem for me is helmets. This idea that one size fits most
    > is dumb. They end up sitting on the top front of my head sticking
    > several inches into the air (above everyone else, too.)


    Helmets are tricky. Not all aero helmets are particularly aero,
    especially since their aeroness depends on how they fit into your
    body. However, tall, wide helmets are pretty sure to be bad.

    > It would be nice to save some energy with tighter clothes, but my real
    > problem is the hills. On the flats they told me to cool it a few
    > times, but on the hills I was doomed.


    Don't throw away free watts. As for hills, you already know the key is
    watts/kg. Increase the numerator, decrease the denominator.
     
  7. On Mar 19, 10:19 am, "[email protected]"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I want to get stronger, and to lose weight. How mutually exclusive are
    > these goals?




    Dumbass -


    They are definitely not mutually exclusive.

    Otherwise, the Fatties would be winning the TdF.


    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.
     
  8. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

  9. On Mar 20, 9:49 am, Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    > > On Mar 19, 7:49 pm, [email protected] wrote:
    > >> On Mar 19, 10:05 am, [email protected] wrote:

    >
    > >>> BTW, on the Styrkeproven, were you wearing a jacket? Don't.
    > >> Ah, yes. I forgot I'd seen this:http://tinyurl.com/29uwfz

    >
    > > Sucker that I am, I coughed up the $40 for the digital version:

    >
    > >http://arbitrary.org/dovre_2007.jpg

    >
    > That's quite a steep chain angle you have there. Straightening that line
    > will feel like you suddenly lost 2 kilos.


    That was a momentary lapse. I'd just been dropped by the group (that's
    why I'm alone in the pic), and had been dropping one cog at a time
    trying to keep up.

    That said, I doubt it is that big a waste.

    Joseph
     
  10. JSWin

    JSWin Member

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    Always 3,000 or higher. Even when you are not exercising. Under 3,000 is starving the body. 500 calories in a day is a famine state. You can eat good food this way. Junk food is not food.
     
  11. Damien Lee

    Damien Lee Active Member

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    I don't really believe in diets, as they don't often work, or the results are only temporary for most folks. But I guess, for folks that are clinically obese, they have no choice but to undergo a diet in order to get their weight back to a correct level. Proper exercise and eating (no over-eating) is what does the trick to remain healthy and look good.
     
  12. Corzhens

    Corzhens Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for supporting my theory. For me, any kind of diet works only on the first 2 weeks and after that, my body goes berserk and would go back to the previous weight before the dieting. Right now I am on a diet, that means I eat moderately and no more famished days. And to lose weight, I complement that diet with physical activities, not necessarily exercise. In the office building, I use the stairs to the 4th floor where my office is located. At home, I do some morning exercise aside from brisk walking at night after dinner. I lose about 1 pound a week and it's fine with me.
     
  13. sharkantropo

    sharkantropo Member

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    Remember that during a workout, particularly one involving intense strength training, your muscles experience normal microscopic damage that breaks down muscle fiber, and produces lactic acid. Following an exercise session, the protein you take in rebuilds these muscle fibers as your body recovers. So high protein intake should be a priority: meat, fish, oatmeal, whey etc.
     
  14. oportosanto

    oportosanto Well-Known Member

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    Yep, that's why it's so important to stretch, to avoid that lactic acid damages our muscles. Nutrition plays a big role here too.
     
  15. mauricioq

    mauricioq Member

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    They're both very important and essential, they compliment each other, so you need to keep up with both. Training can be way harder but you need to keep doing it, make yourself a playlist with songs that motivate and go for it.
     
  16. pwarbi

    pwarbi Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think that if a person is trying to lose weight, then both dieting and trying will play a huge role in getting you to your goal.

    The main way to lose weight as I'm sure we all know, is to consume less calories but training is an important part aswell. When we lose weight we need to do it in a healthy manner, and that's where the training regime, coupled with a healthy diet and lifestyle comes in.
     
  17. oportosanto

    oportosanto Well-Known Member

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    Most of all we need to eat in a balanced way, because if we have the proper nutrients we won't have cravings as often.
     
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