Disc brake questions ....



Mike DeMicco wrote:
> if you read the
> reviews in MTB Review, the Avid mechanicals are one of the most highly
> rated disc brakes.



There's a shining example of a parade of idiots, mtbr. Just about
everything there is highly rated because all of the neophytes think
every one of their purchases are so grand and they would never admit to
buying garbage.

JD
 
[email protected] wrote:
>The Avid mechanical brake isn't that much better than a V-Brake, but
>the brake is very trouble-free and easy to install and maintain.



That sentence seems quite contradictory. Trouble-free and easy to
maintain seems better than most linear sidepull brakes. You needn't
worry about pad alignment or rim wear with discs. With the proper
levers, the Avid mechanicals are much better than linear sidepulls,
even
with the dreaded 6" rotor.

>Changing the pads takes just a few seconds.



That seems more trouble-free than any linear sidepull brake pad
changes I have ever done. Then again, according to you the Avid
mechanical discs are not "that much better".


>The 6-inch Avid will fade on a long steep descent, though. (For
>example, Julie Creek near Lowman, Idaho.)



I'm wondering if a) you ever tried anything other than organic
compound Avid brake pads, or b) this Julie Creek near Lowman, ID
has some kind of magical quality that creates unexplained brake
fade on Avid mechanical disc brakes? I've done many steeper drops
than a descent of 2700 feet in 5.3 miles and never experienced brake
fade with Avid mechanical disc brakes after swapping out the stock
organic compound brake pads. I've seen blue-hot 6" rotors after
longer and steeper drops, yet still not any of this brake fade that
you appear to indicate is a problem with all Avid mechanical brakesets.

You need to get out more.

Barry Bargain needs to come back because it looks like someone is
out to claim his "Minister of Misinformation" title.

JD
 
G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > G.T. wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm still thinking about switching from a Juicy to a mech on the rear.


<snip>

> I followed them to a T. But, this last time I once again was hurried so
> maybe I'll sit down when I have zero distractions and do it once more.


They added new instructions about a year ago ... if you have the newer
bleed kit it has the original instructions and an updated "flyer". It
is time consuming, but a really good system.

On one of the bikes we swapped out a caliper because of crash damage.
Knowing that the line and master cylinder had already been purged, we
just closed off the master and did the "suction" bleed on the caliper.
5 minutes from the removal of the original calper, and we had a new
caliper installed and bled ... perfect.

> Goodridges are now available for Avid? I hadn't checked for awhile.


And you can even get them with aluminium fittings ..... oooooh sooo
light and oooh sooo much more fragile.

Goodridge - (Part No. MTB108-1RC-CB) ... so it is basically the 108
kit (1 banjo fitting,one threaded M8x.75 male lever fitting), but if
you have ~ <04 Juicy-7, they require a M8x1.0 lever fitting ... those
can be ordered separately. Oh yah and you use the original Juicy hollow
M6x1 for the Goodridge supplied banjo fitting, since you need the torx
opening for the bleed.

R
 
JD wrote:
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
>> if you read the
>> reviews in MTB Review, the Avid mechanicals are one of the most
>> highly rated disc brakes.

>
>
> There's a shining example of a parade of idiots, mtbr. Just about
> everything there is highly rated because all of the neophytes think
> every one of their purchases are so grand and they would never admit
> to buying garbage.


If you read the reviews and notice a trend in part failures, or performance
decreases, you can glean a lot of information about the product.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
JD wrote:
> Mike DeMicco wrote:
>
>> if you read the
>>reviews in MTB Review, the Avid mechanicals are one of the most highly
>>rated disc brakes.

>
>
>
> There's a shining example of a parade of idiots, mtbr. Just about
> everything there is highly rated because all of the neophytes think
> every one of their purchases are so grand and they would never admit to
> buying garbage.
>


Dude, watch out or you'll be banned from a.m-b.

Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>Goodridges are now available for Avid? I hadn't checked for awhile.

>
>
> And you can even get them with aluminium fittings ..... oooooh sooo
> light and oooh sooo much more fragile.


Stainless is fine with me, I have the original Juicys and the little
bolt that holds the Avid hose to the lever is fragile enough. I broke 5
of them before sending them in to Avid to cut my hose to length. But I
only had to do that for the front, somehow I got the rear tight enough
without breaking it. So the front's were bled by Avid and the rear's
were bled by me, no problem with the front, plenty of fade with the rear.

>
> Goodridge - (Part No. MTB108-1RC-CB) ... so it is basically the 108
> kit (1 banjo fitting,one threaded M8x.75 male lever fitting), but if
> you have ~ <04 Juicy-7, they require a M8x1.0 lever fitting ... those
> can be ordered separately. Oh yah and you use the original Juicy hollow
> M6x1 for the Goodridge supplied banjo fitting, since you need the torx
> opening for the bleed.
>


Thanks for the info, I assume I need the M8x1.0. They also have the
MTB109-1RC, do you know if that is for the early Juicy? And do you know
anyone online that has these available?

Thanks again,
Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
 
G.T. wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> Goodridges are now available for Avid? I hadn't checked for awhile.

>>
>>
>>
>> And you can even get them with aluminium fittings ..... oooooh sooo
>> light and oooh sooo much more fragile.

>
>
> Stainless is fine with me, I have the original Juicys and the little
> bolt that holds the Avid hose to the lever is fragile enough. I broke 5
> of them before sending them in to Avid to cut my hose to length. But I
> only had to do that for the front, somehow I got the rear tight enough
> without breaking it. So the front's were bled by Avid and the rear's
> were bled by me, no problem with the front, plenty of fade with the rear.
>


Oh yeah, this is the first (well, 2nd) time in my life where I'm
thinking I should have a shop work on my bike. The only other time I've
taken my bike in was to have a rear triangle spread from 130 to 135 and
aligned. I've rebuilt forks, built bikes from scratch, built wheels,
but hydraulic disc brakes are a PITA.

Greg


--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
 
"G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JD wrote:
>> Mike DeMicco wrote:
>>
>>> if you read the
>>>reviews in MTB Review, the Avid mechanicals are one of the most highly
>>>rated disc brakes.

>>
>>
>>
>> There's a shining example of a parade of idiots, mtbr. Just about
>> everything there is highly rated because all of the neophytes think
>> every one of their purchases are so grand and they would never admit to
>> buying garbage.
>>

>
> Dude, watch out or you'll be banned from a.m-b.
>
> Greg
> --
> "All my time I spent in heaven
> Revelries of dance and wine
> Waking to the sound of laughter
> Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons



Shhhhhhhhhhh.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Avid mechanical brake isn't that much better than a V-Brake, but
> the brake is very trouble-free and easy to install and maintain.
> Changing the pads takes just a few seconds. Probably you should wait
> for the brake until you need a new wheel, if you're trying to save
> money,though.
>
> The 6-inch Avid will fade on a long steep descent, though. (For
> example, Julie Creek near Lowman, Idaho.)
>
> http://www.gpstrailmaps.com/idaho/JulieCreek/JulieCreek.html
>
> Dave
>


Not much better than a V-brake? I switched to mechanicals about 6 months ago
and thought
they were much better than not much but then I have no metrics to define the
difference
between much better and NOT much better. My instinct says that I should just
ignore
what you say and go with what I say but then I've been called an idiot
before so
go figure.

Marty
 
JD wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> The 6-inch Avid will fade on a long steep descent, though. (For
>> example, Julie Creek near Lowman, Idaho.)

>
>
> I'm wondering if a) you ever tried anything other than organic
> compound Avid brake pads, or b) this Julie Creek near Lowman, ID
> has some kind of magical quality that creates unexplained brake
> fade on Avid mechanical disc brakes? I've done many steeper drops
> than a descent of 2700 feet in 5.3 miles and never experienced brake
> fade with Avid mechanical disc brakes after swapping out the stock
> organic compound brake pads. I've seen blue-hot 6" rotors after
> longer and steeper drops, yet still not any of this brake fade that
> you appear to indicate is a problem with all Avid mechanical brakesets.
>
> You need to get out more.
>
> Barry Bargain needs to come back because it looks like someone is
> out to claim his "Minister of Misinformation" title.
>
> JD
>


I have to agree, I switched to disc brakes because I didn't like the way
linear brakes felt on a long, sustained downhill, and I decided on Avid
mechanicals because I wanted the ease in maintenance.
So far, I have not been disappointed with the decision.

BTW, I don't see how the mechanical aspect could have an affect on brake
fade. I would suspect that the rotor design may have some (independent
of size) but that overwhelmingly, brake compound is the largest
contributor. And that is pretty easy to modify, especially versus linear
brakes.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado

Owner/Operator of the Pekingnese Ranch.
 
Per Marty:
>Not much better than a V-brake? I switched to mechanicals about 6 months ago
>and thought
>they were much better than not much but then I have no metrics to define the
>difference
>between much better and NOT much better


I don't see fade or braking power as the significant distinction between v's and
discs.

For me it's modulation, predictability, and what doesn't happen to the rims in
mud.
--
PeteCresswell
 
Yeah, I know it's an oldschool hardtail ... but what the hey ... I love
that freakin' bike and I absolutely cannot afford to buy a newer bike. A
couple hundred or so for brakes is one thing, but no way I can shell out
a grand or more for a newer ride.
Don't need new wheels. It's already got disc hubs ..... just need the
brake sets and someone to install them .... got a favorite local bike
shop that will install anything whether you bought it from them or not
and they're very fair on the labor charge.

Oh well ... sometimes a pig looks kinda cute in a dress!
;)

todd

Paladin wrote:
> I haven't read your other responses, but putting disks on that bike is
> kinda like putting a dress on a pig, no offense intended. I have a
> Diamondback Outlook that is similar to yours that I keep around for a
> loaner. I can't imagine going from v-brakes to discs on that, what
> with buying new wheels, buying the brakes, etc. and still having an
> old-school hardtail.
>
> I have Avid mechanicals on the Rev, and love them, but good avids on
> the other mtnbikes, and they work just fine. But if you find yourself
> on long, sustained downhills, and you're gonna keep the bike, you
> wouldn't regret the ease you'll get on your hands by using discs over
> rim brakes.
>
> YMMV, but hey.
>
> CDB
>
 
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Marty:
> >Not much better than a V-brake? I switched to mechanicals about 6 months ago
> >and thought
> >they were much better than not much but then I have no metrics to define the
> >difference
> >between much better and NOT much better

>
> I don't see fade or braking power as the significant distinction between v's and
> discs.
>
> For me it's modulation, predictability, and what doesn't happen to the rims in
> mud.
> --
> PeteCresswell



If you ever get caught in the rain on a DG based trail in the San
Gabriels, you might experience a huge difference in power between
linear sidepulls ad discs. I burned through a set of new pads in my
Avid Arch Supremes on a long downhill and virtually had no brakes by
the bottom because there was no pad left. The rims got shaved quite a
bit from that misadventure as well.

Like I said, this wissenbach character needs to get out more.

Any seconds on the M.O.M. nomination?

JD
 
G.T. wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Goodridges are now available for Avid? I hadn't checked for awhile.

> >
> >
> > And you can even get them with aluminium fittings ..... oooooh sooo
> > light and oooh sooo much more fragile.

>
> Stainless is fine with me, I have the original Juicys and the little
> bolt that holds the Avid hose to the lever is fragile enough. I broke 5
> of them before sending them in to Avid to cut my hose to length. But I
> only had to do that for the front, somehow I got the rear tight enough
> without breaking it. So the front's were bled by Avid and the rear's
> were bled by me, no problem with the front, plenty of fade with the rear.
>
> >
> > Goodridge - (Part No. MTB108-1RC-CB) ... so it is basically the 108
> > kit (1 banjo fitting,one threaded M8x.75 male lever fitting), but if
> > you have ~ <04 Juicy-7, they require a M8x1.0 lever fitting ... those
> > can be ordered separately. Oh yah and you use the original Juicy hollow
> > M6x1 for the Goodridge supplied banjo fitting, since you need the torx
> > opening for the bleed.
> >

>
> Thanks for the info, I assume I need the M8x1.0. They also have the
> MTB109-1RC, do you know if that is for the early Juicy?


LOL I have been working with the other kit for so long now that I
didn't pull out the sheets from goodridge. You are correct sir ... that
kit should be it.

> And do you know
> anyone online that has these available?


I don't know anyone online, but if you have a hard time finding them, I
can probably get you a hook up.

R
 
Sounds good. If you can convert for $200 or less, then you'll never
regret discs. I never have to think about braking with the Avid
Mechanicals, and never get tired, even on long descents.

Post a picture or a ride report some time, OK?



CDB
so many bikes, so little time, what a poseur!
 
"Steve B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Todd Day" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Wow ....
> > Many, many thanks to all who responded. A ton of great information. I've
> > got my homework to do now for sure! I haven't ridden much lately due to
> > work and school slamming me, time wise ... but I'm looking forward to
> > going all out this spring/summer.
> >

>
> Some additional thoughts: I'm considering the same upgrade, and stand
> corrected if any of the info below is in error
>
> - Do you need new wheels ?, do you have disc ready hubs ?, and or frame
> ("I'm not doing any research as to the bike). New decent wheels are
> $300/pair


Yes don't forget the disc wheelset. I got a pair of decent new WTB's off
eBay
for $60 that I put on my SS.

>
>
> SB
> .
>
>
>


--
- Zilla
Cary, NC USA
(Remove XSPAM)
 
Cool beans ...
I'll definitely do a RR sometime soon. Winter weather coming to my part
of NC this weekend so I don't expect to be out and around but hopefully
soon!

thetodd

Paladin wrote:
> Sounds good. If you can convert for $200 or less, then you'll never
> regret discs. I never have to think about braking with the Avid
> Mechanicals, and never get tired, even on long descents.
>
> Post a picture or a ride report some time, OK?
>
>
>
> CDB
> so many bikes, so little time, what a poseur!
>
 
"Zilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Steve B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Todd Day" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Wow ....
> > > Many, many thanks to all who responded. A ton of great information.

I've
> > > got my homework to do now for sure! I haven't ridden much lately due

to
> > > work and school slamming me, time wise ... but I'm looking forward to
> > > going all out this spring/summer.
> > >

> >
> > Some additional thoughts: I'm considering the same upgrade, and stand
> > corrected if any of the info below is in error
> >
> > - Do you need new wheels ?, do you have disc ready hubs ?, and or frame
> > ("I'm not doing any research as to the bike). New decent wheels are
> > $300/pair

>
> Yes don't forget the disc wheelset. I got a pair of decent new WTB's off
> eBay
> for $60 that I put on my SS.
>
> >
> >
> > SB
> > .
> >
> >
> >

>
> --
> - Zilla
> Cary, NC USA
> (Remove XSPAM)
>
>
>


For example here's a seemingly good set for $100.00 (not mine).
I don't know how heavy your are and if the Mavic 117 rims will work
for you.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: FS: MTB wheelset $100


> Buy My Stuff! Spring garage sale. My spare wheels, unridden.
> mavic rims, deore hubs, speedmax tires are ridden. $100, details at
> the link
>
> http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/pages/mavicwheels.htm
>
> Thanks,
> Drew
>



--
- Zilla
Cary, NC USA
(Remove XSPAM)