disc brake squeel

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Bob, Jan 23, 2003.

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  1. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without the
    back (except high speed turns).

    So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that didn't work. Pulled the pads, steel wooled em
    and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and it worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was getting better.

    Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    this happened? I don't have a warped rotor as far as he eye can tell...

    Bob
     
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  2. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:19:21 -0800, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    >everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    >getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    >the back (except high speed turns).
    Perfect way to learn proper braking and control. I can't stand it when I see someone who can't
    stop properly because they're chicken shit about using their front brakes....THAT WHERE THE
    STOPPING POWER IS!

    >Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    >this happened?
    Yes, they're not vibrating on the rear discs like the other pads were.

    Peace, Bill The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind
    should give an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  3. Slacker

    Slacker Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    > everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    > getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    > the back (except high speed turns).
    >
    > So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    > calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that didn't work. Pulled the pads, steel
    > wooled em and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and it worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was
    > getting better.
    >
    > Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    > this happened? I don't have a warped rotor as far as he
    eye
    > can tell...
    >
    > Bob

    It's not an easy thing to figure out. My Hayes squealed for the first month, then all of a sudden
    silence. But I was having a hard time keeping the rear caliper from moving around too.

    I did notice my front stopped squealing as soon as I switched forks from RS to Marzocchi, so maybe
    it's got something to do with flex???

    Also, if you suspect contamination again try soaking the pads in iso, then light them on fire and
    let them burn themselves out.
    --
    Slacker
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Guest

    never under-estimate the power of coca cola........... I run hope 4 pots and have used everything to
    stop the squealing then I was told to try coke and it worked a damn treat. Also in a uk magazine
    (mbuk) there was a whole "how to" section on stopping hydraulic brake squeal, basically cut a thin
    backing plate for the pads before inserting them. This somehow stopped the vibration building upoin
    brake use and hence lowered the noise.

    Simon "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    > everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    > getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    > the back (except high speed turns).
    >
    > So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    > calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that didn't work. Pulled the pads, steel
    > wooled em and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and it worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was
    > getting better.
    >
    > Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    > this happened? I don't have a warped rotor as far as he
    eye
    > can tell...
    >
    > Bob
     
  5. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Bob wrote:
    >
    > Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    > everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    > getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    > the back (except high speed turns).
    >
    > So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    > calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that didn't work. Pulled the pads, steel
    > wooled em and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and it worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was
    > getting better.
    >
    > Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    > this happened? I don't have a warped rotor as far as he eye can tell...

    I'm guessing contamination. Probably lube from the chain or from a puddle. When you swapped pads,
    you got clean pads with a contaminated rotor and clean rotor with contaminated pads. Since the
    contamination wasn't bad, the swap fixed it for now... It'll come back :).

    I find that mud works. A thin coating on the rotor, then brake! Repeat as necessary. Watch for
    stones in the rotor cut-outs -- they *will* score the pads.

    --
    David
     
  6. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    > everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    > getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    > the back (except high speed turns).
    >
    > So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    > calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that didn't work. Pulled the pads, steel
    > wooled em and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and it worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was
    > getting better.
    >
    > Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel.

    It'll be back.

    > Any ideas on why this happened?

    Yes, they're crap - buy some Hope's.

    Shaun aRe >',;~}
     
  7. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Yeah, I wouldn't use anything other than the bombers also. Interesting thought about the iso fire. I
    wonder if that would burn the crap out of them or just roast them til medium well?

    -B

    "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > It's not an easy thing to figure out. My Hayes squealed for the first month, then all of a sudden
    > silence. But I was having a hard time keeping the rear caliper from moving around too.
    >
    > I did notice my front stopped squealing as soon as I switched forks from
    RS
    > to Marzocchi, so maybe it's got something to do with flex???
    >
    > Also, if you suspect contamination again try soaking the pads in iso, then light them on fire and
    > let them burn themselves out.
    > --
    > Slacker
     
  8. Andy Chequer

    Andy Chequer Guest

    "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > never under-estimate the power of coca cola........... I run hope 4 pots
    and
    > have used everything to stop the squealing then I was told to try coke and it worked a damn treat.
    > Also in a uk magazine (mbuk) there was a whole "how to" section on
    stopping
    > hydraulic brake squeal, basically cut a thin backing plate for the pads before inserting them.
    > This somehow stopped the vibration building upoin brake use and hence lowered the noise.

    The idea's been around for years in automotive disc brakes. I think it's the smooth surface of the
    steel preventing the "stick-slip" of pad against piston that causes squealing. They are known in car
    circles as "anti-squeal shims" - betya didn't see (hear?) that comin'.

    Andy "eeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MOOOOO!" Chequer
     
  9. Michael Dart

    Michael Dart Guest

    "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I did notice my front stopped squealing as soon as I switched forks from
    RS
    > to Marzocchi, so maybe it's got something to do with flex???
    >

    Yeah, my Marzocchi Marathon cured my front Hope Mini from squealing yesterday. By puking foamy fork
    oil all over the front caliper went I released the pressure from the negative chamber. The fork was
    stuck down to 80mm and I was checking the pressures to figure out what was going on. The forks ok
    now but braking isn't so hot. Gonna try that fire thing later. But I'm thinking it's new pad time.

    Actually the Hope rep I spoke with at a Norba Natl blamed Marzocchi forks for squealing because of
    the hollow end of the fork leg was a resonance chamber and suggested filling it with foam.

    Mike - Gonna have to be careful where I point that thing.
    psssssht...dammit!
     
  10. D_d

    D_d Guest

    Bill Wheeler wrote:

    > On Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:19:21 -0800, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    >>everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    >>getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I started using the front almost without
    >>the back (except high speed turns).
    >
    > Perfect way to learn proper braking and control. I can't stand it when I see someone who can't
    > stop properly because they're chicken shit about using their front brakes....THAT WHERE THE
    > STOPPING POWER IS!

    Grip can be a factor when off-road, so sometimes using the rear brake as well as the front will slow
    you quicker, or at least reduce the chance of locking up a wheel.

    >
    >>Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No more squeel. Any ideas on why
    >>this happened?
    > Yes, they're not vibrating on the rear discs like the other pads were.

    Or they're not vibrating against the piston like the other pads were.

    --
    D_D
     
  11. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I thought contamination also, but they "looked" ok. Some minimal pits, but no DOT on them. I like
    the isopropyl fire idea, but then again, I am a licensed pyrotechnic and can't pass up a good flame.
    What about this grease on the backside? What is the reason that should work?

    I still think it is due to a weaker or weakened spring clip on the backside of the pad. The shim
    concept (as with car brakes) probably would work.

    Anyway, thanks and no squealn' now.

    Bob

    PS Nice eeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeee Andy. That is just about how it sounded.

    "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Bob wrote:
    > >
    > > Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    > > everything was fine. Good modulation in all
    conditions
    > > and a pleasure to have. Then I started getting a nasty squeel at the back. It was so bad, that I
    > > started using the front almost without the back (except high speed turns).
    > >
    > > So I cleaned the calipers with isopropyl alcohol - that worked for 2 minutes. Readjusted the
    > > calipers and mounts with proper bolt tension - that
    didn't
    > > work. Pulled the pads, steel wooled em and isopropyl again (cheap stuff) and
    it
    > > worked for----3 minutes. So at least I was getting better.
    > >
    > > Finally, pulled front and back pads and swapped em. That did it!! No
    more
    > > squeel. Any ideas on why this happened? I don't have a warped rotor as far as he
    eye
    > > can tell...
    >
    > I'm guessing contamination. Probably lube from the chain or from a puddle. When you swapped pads,
    > you got clean pads with a contaminated rotor and clean rotor with contaminated pads. Since the
    > contamination wasn't bad, the swap fixed it for now... It'll come back :).
    >
    > I find that mud works. A thin coating on the rotor, then brake! Repeat as necessary. Watch for
    > stones in the rotor cut-outs -- they *will* score the pads.
    >
    > --
    > David
     
  12. John Murf

    John Murf Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    >
    > Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few months. After the breakin,
    >> everything was fine. Good modulation in all conditions and a pleasure to have. Then I started
    >> getting a nasty squeel at the back.
    <snip>

    >> Any ideas on why this happened?
    >
    > Yes, they're crap - buy some Hope's.

    My Hope Minis can squeel when they want to, usually when it's damp and and I trying to ride sensibly
    past the horse riding school out with its beginners class.

    --
    John Murf
     
  13. Bob

    Bob Guest

    The back pads have a little less of tension on the rear set spring. Perhaps that allowed for
    excessive vibration. The idea of a backing plate is interesting, but I think I will try firming the
    spring first if it happens again.

    The Marathon front shock does have a nice vibration to it, but no squeal. I just set my damping a
    little higher to prevent too much vibration.

    Thanks to all (except for Bill pointing out the obvious in CAPS no less.....)

    ......some good ideas here.

    Bob

    "Andy Chequer" <[email protected](removethisbittosend)secretworldgovernment.org> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > The idea's been around for years in automotive disc brakes. I think it's
    the
    > smooth surface of the steel preventing the "stick-slip" of pad against piston that causes
    > squealing. They are known in car circles as
    "anti-squeal
    > shims" - betya didn't see (hear?) that comin'.
    >
    > Andy "eeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MOOOOO!" Chequer
     
  14. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:52:49 +0000, D_D <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Grip can be a factor when off-road, so sometimes using the rear brake as well as the front will
    >slow you quicker, or at least reduce the chance of locking up a wheel.
    >
    I'm not say don't use you rear, you should use both for the best results.....as long as you know how
    to use them to prevent skidding and accidents.

    Peace, Bill The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind
    should give an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  15. Dave Haley

    Dave Haley Guest

    "Andy Chequer" <[email protected](removethisbittosend)secretworldgovernment.org> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > never under-estimate the power of coca cola........... I run hope 4 pots
    > and
    > > have used everything to stop the squealing then I was told to try coke
    and
    > > it worked a damn treat. Also in a uk magazine (mbuk) there was a whole "how to" section on
    > stopping
    > > hydraulic brake squeal, basically cut a thin backing plate for the pads before inserting them.
    > > This somehow stopped the vibration building upoin brake use and hence lowered the noise.
    >
    > The idea's been around for years in automotive disc brakes. I think it's
    the
    > smooth surface of the steel preventing the "stick-slip" of pad against piston that causes
    > squealing. They are known in car circles as
    "anti-squeal
    > shims" - betya didn't see (hear?) that comin'.
    >
    > Andy "eeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MOOOOO!" Chequer
    >

    A small dab of high temp grease or anti-seize on the back (piston side) of the pads will also help
    eliminate squeal. Another tip gained from the automotive industry.

    --

    Dave Haley www.geocities.com/bikegeek66
     
  16. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > What about this grease on the backside?

    Hey, this is a family newsgroup, perv!

    Bill "(disk brake) 'squeel' (sic) like a pig" S.
     
  17. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I thought contamination also, but they "looked" ok. Some minimal pits, but no DOT on them. I like
    > the isopropyl fire idea, but then again, I am a licensed
    pyrotechnic
    > and can't pass up a good flame. What about this grease on the backside?

    Helps you get tight pants on.

    > What is the reason that should work?

    Reduces that blasted arse friction.

    > I still think it is due to a weaker or weakened spring clip on the
    backside
    > of the pad.

    Once the brakes are applied, it shouldn't make any difference, as the forces involved are far
    greater than any force the spiring is capable of appling.

    > The shim concept (as with car brakes) probably would work.
    >
    > Anyway, thanks and no squealn' now.

    For now, heheheheheh >',;~}

    Shaun aRe
     
  18. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    John Murf <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > >
    > > Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >> Been riding some new hayes hydraulic 6" disc brakes the past few
    months.
    > >> After the breakin, everything was fine. Good modulation in all
    conditions
    > >> and a pleasure to have. Then I started getting a nasty squeel at the back.
    > <snip>
    >
    > >> Any ideas on why this happened?
    > >
    > > Yes, they're crap - buy some Hope's.
    >
    > My Hope Minis can squeel when they want to, usually when it's damp and and
    I
    > trying to ride sensibly past the horse riding school out with its
    beginners
    > class.

    <scientific fact> Mine can too, but that's nothing to do with it - _Hope's_ aren't crap. When Hope's
    brakes squeal, it's just them reminding you how well they're working, with the Hayes, it's them
    telling to to buy some Hope Minis. <scientific fact>

    Shaun aRe - 'strue.
     
  19. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:56:21 -0800, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The back pads have a little less of tension on the rear set spring. Perhaps that allowed for
    >excessive vibration. The idea of a backing plate is interesting, but I think I will try firming the
    >spring first if it happens again.

    >Thanks to all (except for Bill pointing out the obvious in CAPS no less.....)

    You're welcome at any rate. Peace, Bill

    The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind should give
    an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  20. Bob

    Bob Guest

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