Disc brakes squeal due to loose pads?

[Michael Press]

I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)

Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.

Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the cause of
the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
read about on this NG? I recall suggestions about using mud on the
rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[SDMike]

"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
> The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
> push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
> rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
> new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
>
> Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
> pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
> great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.
>
> Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the cause of
> the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
> read about on this NG? I recall suggestions about using mud on the
> rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael

Have you tried cleaning off the rotors with Dawn and water? Sometimes when you
get oily fingerprints/etc. on the rotors is screws everything up.

If the Dawn + H2O don't work, then try some really fine mud. It may scrape off
both contaminated layers.

If you haven't done it, reverse the QR on the wheels so you're not tempted to
grab the rotor when you're installing the wheel in the dropout.

HTH,

M

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:57:43 -0400, Michael Press
<[email protected]> may have said:

>I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
>The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
>push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
>rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
>new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
>
>Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
>pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
>great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.
>
>Are the pads supposed to move that much?

Yes.

>Is that likely the cause of
>the squealing,

No.

>or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
>read about on this NG?

Disc brake squeal is caused by a high-frequency cyclic oscillation in
the pad/caliper and pad/disc interfaces; stabilize the former, and the
squeal will generally go away. If there is enough clearance for the
pad to move at all, there's enough motion possible to permit squeal.
Since the pad must be able to float a bit in nearly all caliper
designs, squeal is possible in virtually all disc brake systems.

>I recall suggestions about using mud on the
>rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?

Counterproductive even when effective.

I suggest going to an auto parts store and getting some disc brake
anti-squeal compound; apply it to the back of the pads, NOT the
friction surface. Follow the instructions included with the product.
Be aware that it's sticky, and most types must dry thoroughly before
the pads can be reinstalled. Just about any of these compounds will
usually damp the oscillations and silence the squeal. Short-term
reduction in squeal can sometimes be had by applying a very thin film
of high-temp grease to the back of the pad, but this is an inherently
hazardous method as it is possible for the grease to contaminate the
friction material too easily. I have also seen other anti-squeal
measures used, but I disdain the majority of them due to the fact that
a reasonably reliable and generally inexpensive solution is available
which is likely to be more effective.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[jim beam]

both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered e.b.c. pads.
i've used them ever since and have had no problems whatsoever in all
kinds of conditions.

Michael Press wrote:

> I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
> The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
> push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
> rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
> new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
>
> Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
> pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
> great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.
>
> Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the cause of
> the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
> read about on this NG? I recall suggestions about using mud on the
> rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael

 

[Michael Press]

jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered e.b.c. pads.
>i've used them ever since and have had no problems whatsoever in all
>kinds of conditions.

Green or gold?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Michael Press]

Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:57:43 -0400, Michael Press
><[email protected]> may have said:

>I suggest going to an auto parts store and getting some disc brake
>anti-squeal compound; apply it to the back of the pads, NOT the
>friction surface. Follow the instructions included with the product.

Wow, sounds perfect. I need some more loctite anyway, so i'll look
for the stuff at the auto parts store.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[jim beam]

green

Michael Press wrote:

> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered e.b.c. pads.
>>i've used them ever since and have had no problems whatsoever in all
>>kinds of conditions.
>
>
> Green or gold?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael

 

[Michael Press]

"SDMike" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Have you tried cleaning off the rotors with Dawn and water? Sometimes when you
>get oily fingerprints/etc. on the rotors is screws everything up.
>

Tried it last night. It stopped the squealing for the first 7 miles,
but then it returned... :-(

Michael

 

[John]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered e.b.c. pads.
> i've used them ever since and have had no problems whatsoever in all
> kinds of conditions.
>
> Michael Press wrote:
>
> > I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
> > The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
> > push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
> > rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
> > new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
> >
> > Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
> > pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
> > great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.
> >
> > Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the cause of
> > the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
> > read about on this NG? I recall suggestions about using mud on the
> > rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael

I'd love to get the EBC pads. Who might be a good source for them in the
U.S.?

Thanks,
John




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[jim beam]

John wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered e.b.c. pads.
>>i've used them ever since and have had no problems whatsoever in all
>>kinds of conditions.
>>
>>Michael Press wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting (road) bike.
>>>The pads have a little play in them - they'll rock about 1mm if you
>>>push forward and back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
>>>rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
>>>new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
>>>
>>>Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the applied at any
>>>pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is fine. The brakes work
>>>great, but the squealing is loud and VERY annoying.
>>>
>>>Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the cause of
>>>the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've
>>>read about on this NG? I recall suggestions about using mud on the
>>>rotors to reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Michael
>
>
> I'd love to get the EBC pads. Who might be a good source for them in the
> U.S.?
>
> Thanks,
> John

your lbs should be able to get them for you. or online at places like
cambria bike.

>
>
>
>
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[Evan Evans]

I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.

 

[Michael Press]

[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
>arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.

I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
brakes, especially in the wet.

Michael

 

[SDMike]

"Evan Evans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
> arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.

"Better" depends on how you define it.

In the muck and slop, discs are FAR superior. In general JRA it isn't as big a
difference.

M

 

[David Damerell]

Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
>>arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.
>I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
>brakes, especially in the wet.

I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or dry. How
_exactly_ would discs be superior?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

 

[Chris B.]

On 17 Jun 2004 18:51:46 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>>>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
>>>arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.

>>I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
>>brakes, especially in the wet.
>
>I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or dry. How
>_exactly_ would discs be superior?

Dude! Just look at them!

 

[Evan Evans]

Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
> >arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.
>
> I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
> brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> Michael

Maybe you should try them :}

 

[Michael Press]

David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:
>I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or dry. How
>_exactly_ would discs be superior?

I can't. When it gets really wet my stopping distances increase
dramatically. I get almost no braking at first, until the pads
squeegee off the water on the rim.

I weigh 210# and ride in urban traffic, so I prefer the shortest
possible stopping distance when I'm approaching a traffic light at the
bottom of a hill at 30mph in heavy rain with a truck coming through
the intersection.

Michael

 

[SDMike]

"David Damerell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:IAw*[email protected]...
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
> >>arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.
> >I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
> >brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or dry. How
> _exactly_ would discs be superior?
> --
> David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

By your argument, why did you leave cantis? Or Rollercams, or Scott
Self-Energizing brakes, or... I could endo with my cantis, skid the rear wheel
with U-brakes. They don't do anything that V-brakes do.

How much stronger braking do you need when you can skid the tires with cantis?

Discs aren't really superior to cantis, Vs, or even Rollercams in the respect
that all can lift the rear wheel, or skid it if you want to.

Where discs shine is when the rims get wet, dirty, and/or worn. Discs have none
of the speeding up feeling that brakes do when a rim's wet. They don't grind
down the sides of your rims when you've been running thru the mud.

And best of all, they're easily replaceable vs. rebuilding a wheel.

Now, discs aren't for everyone. If you ride on bridle trails and MUTs, ferget
it. Don't need 'em. Come riding in the woods of the middle Atlantic (or the
UK) when conditions aren't perfect, then they're not a bad thing.

M

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

RE/
> How
>_exactly_ would discs be superior?

- Going down a grade that's slippery and/or covered with loose stones you'd be
able to walk a finer line between washing out the front wheel and not having
enough braking power.

--
PeteCresswell

 

[Jonesy]

David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<IAw*[email protected]>...
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but they
> >>arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are better than v's.
> >I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to road rim
> >brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or dry. How
> _exactly_ would discs be superior?

"Can" does not imply ease or simplicity. One can hammer in a nail with
a pair of pliers. And your anecdotal (possibly apocryphal) evidence is
meaningful in what way?
--
Jonesy