Disc brakes squeal due to loose pads?

[Michael Press]

I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting
(road) bike. The pads have a little play in them - they'll
rock about 1mm if you push forward and back (along the axis
of the bike, not in toward the rotor) on the little pad
mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me new pad mounting
clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)

Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is
fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is loud and
VERY annoying.

Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely the
cause of the squealing, or is this just the kind of disc
brake squealing I've read about on this NG? I recall
suggestions about using mud on the rotors to reduce squeal -
any suggestions for that?

Thanks, Michael

 

[Sdmike]

"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting
> (road) bike. The pads have a little play in them - they'll
> rock about 1mm if you push forward and back (along the
> axis of the bike, not in toward the rotor) on the little
> pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me new pad
> mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement
> slightly.)
>
> Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
> applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake
> is fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is loud
> and VERY annoying.
>
> Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely
> the cause of the squealing, or is this just the kind of
> disc brake squealing I've read about on this NG? I recall
> suggestions about using mud on the rotors to reduce squeal
> - any suggestions for that?
>
> Thanks, Michael

Have you tried cleaning off the rotors with Dawn and water?
Sometimes when you get oily fingerprints/etc. on the rotors
is screws everything up.

If the Dawn + H2O don't work, then try some really fine mud.
It may scrape off both contaminated layers.

If you haven't done it, reverse the QR on the wheels so
you're not tempted to grab the rotor when you're installing
the wheel in the dropout.

HTH,

M

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:57:43 -0400, Michael Press
<[email protected]> may have said:

>I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting
>(road) bike. The pads have a little play in them - they'll
>rock about 1mm if you push forward and back (along the axis
>of the bike, not in toward the rotor) on the little pad
>mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me new pad mounting
>clips but it only reduced the pad movement slightly.)
>
>Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
>applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake is
>fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is loud and
>VERY annoying.
>
>Are the pads supposed to move that much?

Yes.

>Is that likely the cause of the squealing,

No.

>or is this just the kind of disc brake squealing I've read
>about on this NG?

Disc brake squeal is caused by a high-frequency cyclic
oscillation in the pad/caliper and pad/disc interfaces;
stabilize the former, and the squeal will generally go
away. If there is enough clearance for the pad to move at
all, there's enough motion possible to permit squeal.
Since the pad must be able to float a bit in nearly all
caliper designs, squeal is possible in virtually all disc
brake systems.

>I recall suggestions about using mud on the rotors to
>reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?

Counterproductive even when effective.

I suggest going to an auto parts store and getting some disc
brake anti-squeal compound; apply it to the back of the
pads, NOT the friction surface. Follow the instructions
included with the product. Be aware that it's sticky, and
most types must dry thoroughly before the pads can be
reinstalled. Just about any of these compounds will usually
damp the oscillations and silence the squeal. Short-term
reduction in squeal can sometimes be had by applying a very
thin film of high-temp grease to the back of the pad, but
this is an inherently hazardous method as it is possible for
the grease to contaminate the friction material too easily.
I have also seen other anti-squeal measures used, but I
disdain the majority of them due to the fact that a
reasonably reliable and generally inexpensive solution is
available which is likely to be more effective.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Jim Beam]

both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered
e.b.c. pads. i've used them ever since and have had no
problems whatsoever in all kinds of conditions.

Michael Press wrote:

> I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting
> (road) bike. The pads have a little play in them - they'll
> rock about 1mm if you push forward and back (along the
> axis of the bike, not in toward the rotor) on the little
> pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me new pad
> mounting clips but it only reduced the pad movement
> slightly.)
>
> Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
> applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake
> is fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is loud
> and VERY annoying.
>
> Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely
> the cause of the squealing, or is this just the kind of
> disc brake squealing I've read about on this NG? I recall
> suggestions about using mud on the rotors to reduce squeal
> - any suggestions for that?
>
> Thanks, Michael

 

[Michael Press]

jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered
>e.b.c. pads. i've used them ever since and have had no
>problems whatsoever in all kinds of conditions.

Green or gold?

Thanks, Michael

 

[Michael Press]

Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:57:43 -0400, Michael Press
><[email protected]> may have said:

>I suggest going to an auto parts store and getting some
>disc brake anti-squeal compound; apply it to the back of
>the pads, NOT the friction surface. Follow the instructions
>included with the product.

Wow, sounds perfect. I need some more loctite anyway, so
i'll look for the stuff at the auto parts store.

Thanks, Michael

 

[Jim Beam]

green

Michael Press wrote:

> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered
>>e.b.c. pads. i've used them ever since and have had no
>>problems whatsoever in all kinds of conditions.
>
>
> Green or gold?
>
> Thanks, Michael

 

[Michael Press]

"SDMike" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Have you tried cleaning off the rotors with Dawn and water?
>Sometimes when you get oily fingerprints/etc. on the rotors
>is screws everything up.
>

Tried it last night. It stopped the squealing for the first
7 miles, but then it returned... :-(

Michael

 

[John]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered
> e.b.c. pads. i've used them ever since and have had no
> problems whatsoever in all kinds of conditions.
>
> Michael Press wrote:
>
> > I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my
> > commuting (road) bike. The pads have a little play in
> > them - they'll rock about 1mm if you push forward and
> > back (along the axis of the bike, not in toward the
> > rotor) on the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech
> > support sent me new pad mounting clips but it only
> > reduced the pad movement slightly.)
> >
> > Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
> > applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake
> > is fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is
> > loud and VERY annoying.
> >
> > Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely
> > the cause of the squealing, or is this just the kind of
> > disc brake squealing I've read about on this NG? I
> > recall suggestions about using mud on the rotors to
> > reduce squeal - any suggestions for that?
> >
> > Thanks, Michael

I'd love to get the EBC pads. Who might be a good source for
them in the U.S.?

Thanks, John

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[Jim Beam]

John wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>both my avids & shimanos squealed bad until i discovered
>>e.b.c. pads. i've used them ever since and have had no
>>problems whatsoever in all kinds of conditions.
>>
>>Michael Press wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have Avid Ball Bearing Road disc brakes on my commuting
>>>(road) bike. The pads have a little play in them -
>>>they'll rock about 1mm if you push forward and back
>>>(along the axis of the bike, not in toward the rotor) on
>>>the little pad mounting stems. (Avid tech support sent me
>>>new pad mounting clips but it only reduced the pad
>>>movement slightly.)
>>>
>>>Here's the problem - the front brakes squeal when the
>>>applied at any pressure less than death-grip. Rear brake
>>>is fine. The brakes work great, but the squealing is loud
>>>and VERY annoying.
>>>
>>>Are the pads supposed to move that much? Is that likely
>>>the cause of the squealing, or is this just the kind of
>>>disc brake squealing I've read about on this NG? I recall
>>>suggestions about using mud on the rotors to reduce
>>>squeal - any suggestions for that?
>>>
>>>Thanks, Michael
>
>
> I'd love to get the EBC pads. Who might be a good source
> for them in the U.S.?
>
> Thanks, John

your lbs should be able to get them for you. or online at
places like cambria bike.

>
>
>
>
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> Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1
> Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---=
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[Evan Evans]

I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful , but
they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are
better than v's.

 

[Michael Press]

[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
>but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are
>better than v's.

I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to
road rim brakes, especially in the wet.

Michael

 

[Sdmike]

"Evan Evans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
> but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are
> better than v's.

"Better" depends on how you define it.

In the muck and slop, discs are FAR superior. In general JRA
it isn't as big a difference.

M

 

[David Damerell]

Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
>>but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they are
>>better than v's.
>I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior to
>road rim brakes, especially in the wet.

I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet or
dry. How _exactly_ would discs be superior?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

 

[Chris B .]

On 17 Jun 2004 18:51:46 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>>>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
>>>but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they
>>>are better than v's.

>>I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior
>>to road rim brakes, especially in the wet.
>
>I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet
>or dry. How _exactly_ would discs be superior?

Dude! Just look at them!

 

[Evan Evans]

Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
> >but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they
> >are better than v's.
>
> I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior
> to road rim brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> Michael

Maybe you should try them :}

 

[Michael Press]

David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:
>I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet
>or dry. How _exactly_ would discs be superior?

I can't. When it gets really wet my stopping distances
increase dramatically. I get almost no braking at first,
until the pads squeegee off the water on the rim.

I weigh 210# and ride in urban traffic, so I prefer the
shortest possible stopping distance when I'm approaching a
traffic light at the bottom of a hill at 30mph in heavy rain
with a truck coming through the intersection.

Michael

 

[Sdmike]

"David Damerell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:IAw*[email protected]...
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
> >>but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they
> >>are better than v's.
> >I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior
> >to road rim brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet
> or dry. How _exactly_ would discs be superior?
> --
> David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

By your argument, why did you leave cantis? Or Rollercams,
or Scott Self-Energizing brakes, or... I could endo with my
cantis, skid the rear wheel with U-brakes. They don't do
anything that V-brakes do.

How much stronger braking do you need when you can skid the
tires with cantis?

Discs aren't really superior to cantis, Vs, or even
Rollercams in the respect that all can lift the rear wheel,
or skid it if you want to.

Where discs shine is when the rims get wet, dirty, and/or
worn. Discs have none of the speeding up feeling that brakes
do when a rim's wet. They don't grind down the sides of your
rims when you've been running thru the mud.

And best of all, they're easily replaceable vs.
rebuilding a wheel.

Now, discs aren't for everyone. If you ride on bridle trails
and MUTs, ferget
it. Don't need 'em. Come riding in the woods of the middle
Atlantic (or the UK) when conditions aren't perfect,
then they're not a bad thing.

M

 

[x]

RE/
> How _exactly_ would discs be superior?

- Going down a grade that's slippery and/or covered with
loose stones you'd be able to walk a finer line between
washing out the front wheel and not having enough
braking power.

--
PeteCresswell

 

[Jonesy]

David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<IAw*[email protected]>...
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
> >>I won't say that someday disc brake will become useful ,
> >>but they arn't there yet & i won't use them until they
> >>are better than v's.
> >I've never used V-brakes, but discs are far far superior
> >to road rim brakes, especially in the wet.
>
> I can lift or lock the rear wheel with my rim brakes, wet
> or dry. How _exactly_ would discs be superior?

"Can" does not imply ease or simplicity. One can hammer in a
nail with a pair of pliers. And your anecdotal (possibly
apocryphal) evidence is meaningful in what way?
--
Jonesy