Discovery disbands

[poulidor]

All teams had doped. Some of this teams are trying, maybe without their willing, to stop doping particularly since the recent years.
But there is still some teams which didn't try as we can see, even their PR are BS. DC was one of them.
We can hope some progress for Rabo and Astan since their disappointement.
Italian teams are pressured by CONI, we would see something better.
What about spanish teams? I think the misnister of Sport (?) has sent a bad message sticking with Contador.

 

[Andrija]

Two things,

Johan and Lance are feeling the heat behind the corner... It's time to leave.
Second, great image cycling has... Team with TDF winner and third placed rider can't find the sponsor.
And at the end, I wonder where will finish Contador & co. and how well will they perform next season(s).
Expect to see some very good results from DC riders in next races... They need to find employer.

 

[limerickman]

The facts are that Rabo tried to do everything they could to keep their guy in the Tour until he was caught red handed lying about issues that were central to doping.

Rabo removed their rider from the TDF.
That is the bottom line.

When doubts were raised and when proof of doping was shown to be happening at DC - they refused to pull their riders from the TDF.

 

[saluki]

Rabo removed their rider from the TDF.
That is the bottom line.

When doubts were raised and when proof of doping was shown to be happening at DC - they refused to pull their riders from the TDF.

No that's not the bottom line. They refused to remove their rider from the TDF until they were forced into a position of supporting a liar.

There was no proof of doping shown to be happening at DC and there was no evidence against Contador presented at all. That is the bottom line.

 

[Serafino]

Rabo removed their rider from the TDF.
That is the bottom line.

When doubts were raised and when proof of doping was shown to be happening at DC - they refused to pull their riders from the TDF.

The point is that you single out Disco. Always have. Which team will be your scapegoat next year

Trying to find a scapegoat or pariah is pointless. The system is at fault. The system has to change.

Do you really think that Rabo was SHOCKED just SHOCKED that the Chicken was caught up in these scandals? Just like T-Mobile was SHOCKED that the EPO injecting doping docs were in charge of its anti-doping program. SHOCKED even though they injected Rolf Aldag et al. for all of those years.

Rabo pulled him only when they had a gun pointed to their heads. It was not their option. This is not a team based on ethics. Its a team steeped in doping.

I'd like to see you go after ALL OF THE TEAMS instead of your chosen scapegoat (riders and teams).

Otherwise, we'll have the charade of the ASO "ensuring" a clean tour next year (let's loosen up the testing a bit boys) where nobody (unless the chosen victim(s) on the day) tests positive and VOILA! a clean and shiny new cycling.

 

[limerickman]

No that's not the bottom line. They refused to remove their rider from the TDF until they were forced into a position of supporting a liar.

They removed their rider from the TDF, Saluki.

DC refused to remove their rider from the TDF.

There was no proof of doping shown to be happening at DC and there was no evidence against Contador presented at all. That is the bottom line.

If that's what you choose to think - then so be it.

Given the day that's in it.

 

[limerickman]

The point is that you single out Disco. Always have. Which team will be your scapegoat next year

.............because we have a number of members here who insisted on telling us that there was never any doping at DC.
And they also insisted that not only did their man not dope....but that he even rode clean!

The empirical evidence and the scientific evidence showed otherwise.

 

[saluki]

They removed their rider from the TDF, Saluki.

DC refused to remove their rider from the TDF.

Yes, and every other team refused to remove their rider from the TDF. So what is your point? You want them to remove Contador because you are a Disco bashing bigot and because he was winning? There was no evidence against Contador! Can you absorb that simple fact?

 

[limerickman]

Yes, and every other team refused to remove their rider from the TDF. So what is your point? You want them to remove Contador because you are a Disco bashing bigot and because he was winning? There was no evidence against Contador! Can you absorb that simple fact?

Given the day that's in it Saluki, there is no point in my presenting the opposing argument.
You're not prepared to accept either the empirical evidence or the scientific evidence that doping has been rife at USPS/DC since 1999.

 

[JRMDC]

Given the day that's in it Saluki, there is no point in my presenting the opposing argument.
You're not prepared to accept either the empirical evidence or the scientific evidence that doping has been rife at USPS/DC since 1999.

Like it or not, Lim, there were sufficient specific allegations against Rasmussen that his team pulled him. The allegations against Contador were, to some extent, cleared by the UCI, correctly or not. I don't see why Disco had any more obligation to pull their rider than any other team, besides Rabobank. So I do not see the parallel between the two in terms of the events of the 2007 TdF. Disco had no greater obligation to pull a rider, because of the various facts and beliefs regarding their riders going back to 1999, than any other 2007 TdF team. Perhaps they earn greater distrust, but not greater obligation.

As for the general anti-Disco tenor here, whatever the historical origins, it does seem especially virulent and imbalanced as of 2007, when all or many teams are under suspicion.

 

[nns1400]

The point is that you single out Disco. Always have. Which team will be your scapegoat next year

.

Obviously we will all be able to pick on Cadel Evans and Australians next year.

There is already a groundswell of support building around here that HE is the clean rider. LA fades into the sunset, American Disco disbands.....Cadel is clean!! He's an Aussie! Look at his work ethic! He's a nice guy! He's never tested positive!

Don't worry, Serafino. As long as the Aussies sound like you, saluki, and musette, there will be plenty of "scapegoating" to go around.

Which begs the question, who will Discovery fans support next year? I like Discovery myself, so I will be "shopping" for a new team. I guess we'll have to wait and see who's left...

 

[saluki]

Given the day that's in it Saluki, there is no point in my presenting the opposing argument.
You're not prepared to accept either the empirical evidence or the scientific evidence that doping has been rife at USPS/DC since 1999.

What I do know, limerickman, is that your and Trash's playground has just been blown up. Even the lifeless retarts that frequent your forum will eventually tire of dropping in to make adolecent remarks about a team that no longer exists. And I won't be waiting for it to happen. I'm leaving now. Goodbye and good riddance.

 

[dexjava]

Like it or not, Lim, there were sufficient specific allegations against Rasmussen that his team pulled him. The allegations against Contador were, to some extent, cleared by the UCI, correctly or not. I don't see why Disco had any more obligation to pull their rider than any other team, besides Rabobank. So I do not see the parallel between the two in terms of the events of the 2007 TdF. Disco had no greater obligation to pull a rider, because of the various facts and beliefs regarding their riders going back to 1999, than any other 2007 TdF team. Perhaps they earn greater distrust, but not greater obligation.

As for the general anti-Disco tenor here, whatever the historical origins, it does seem especially virulent and imbalanced as of 2007, when all or many teams are under suspicion.

Logic, Reason, Balance, and Unbiased discussion are not welcome here. If you're not a hypocritical bigot, then GTFO of here. This is cyclingforums.com... i don't know where the hell you think you are.

 

[limerickman]

Like it or not, Lim, there were sufficient specific allegations against Rasmussen that his team pulled him. The allegations against Contador were, to some extent, cleared by the UCI, correctly or not. I don't see why Disco had any more obligation to pull their rider than any other team, besides Rabobank. So I do not see the parallel between the two in terms of the events of the 2007 TdF. Disco had no greater obligation to pull a rider, because of the various facts and beliefs regarding their riders going back to 1999, than any other 2007 TdF team. Perhaps they earn greater distrust, but not greater obligation.

As for the general anti-Disco tenor here, whatever the historical origins, it does seem especially virulent and imbalanced as of 2007, when all or many teams are under suspicion.

All teams are under suspicion, I agree.

I have to say when other teams/team riders have been shown to have doped - their supporters here have (in most cases) accepted that they have doped and have not tried to defend them with convoluted arguments about the
professionalism of the laboratory/laboratory staff, xenophobic comments about the nationality of the race organisers/race locations, condescending remarks about the ability of riders on other teams.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said when legitimate doubts were raised about USPS/DC here.
Certain USPS/DC-supporting forum members insisted on making derogatory comments bout the professionalism of the laboratory/laboratory staff.
Making xenophobic comments about the nationality of the race organisers/race locations
Making xenophobic comments about the media of the race organisers/race locations.
And making condescending remarks about the ability of riders on other teams.
Indeed some even stated that any criticism of DC was a criticism of America
and Americans.

 

[cyclingheroes]

You guys win the prize for the day.

Bruyneel said on belgian TV that he will retire from pro cycling... But....
http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id826.html

Anyway I know Disco isn't exactly popular here but I think its a bad day for pro cycling. Another big sponsor leaves the sport, no new sponsor came in.

And T-Mobile... well they already insisted in 1998 that they were clean and we all know who wrote the new TM anti-doping programm (but hé, maybe they are serious this time, could very well be the case..)

 

[earth_dweller]

After some thoughts, I think this is a brilliant move on Armstrong's part. He leaves the sport as a clean TdF winner (in the eyes of mainstream America) who was alwyas under attack by those 'nasty and jealous' Europeans. If he had stayed (with Tailwind) as part of a team, he stood to either not have a winning team (if they tried to adjust to current fad of being clean) or gotten busted for doping (if they didn't change their model).

This way he goes out a winner, and now he can focus on his political ambitions - brilliant.

As for Bruyneel, he'll take a year or two off, comes back as a DS for a Belgian or Dutch team, brings in his Spanish team doctors, re-etablishes connection with Ferrari, wins a few more races and is still lauded as a great DS.

 

[jsull14]

Wow, how screwed is pro cycling if this squad can't get a sponsor. It's not so much all the success they had with Lance or a new Tour winner in Contador, but Levi, George, and even little Tommy D. are All American boys at their finest and I would think very attractive in the eyes of sponsors. I guess not.

RIP pro cycling.

 

[nns1400]

Wow, how screwed is pro cycling if this squad can't get a sponsor. It's not so much all the success they had with Lance or a new Tour winner in Contador, but Levi, George, and even little Tommy D. are All American boys at their finest and I would think very attractive in the eyes of sponsors. I guess not.

RIP pro cycling.

But if you read between the lines a little, I think some other posters are correct about why this squad can't get a sponsor. Conditions. I don't think they could get the money they were looking for without some serious in-house anti-doping conditions that they could not accept.

Lance said that they (tailwind) did not continue discussions. I think they want out until the current climate of supposedly targeting certain riders goes away. What else could he mean by waiting for a "unified front?" As in ASO/UCI/WADA getting it together and pretending cycling is clean again?

 

[cyclingheroes]

For sponsors pro cycling is unreliable, even if you obtain a pro-tour license a sponsor can't be sure that the team they are sponsoring will start at the big races. Unibet invested millions in their squad and are thinking about leaving the sport as well, not because of doping, but because the team was not allowed to start at the major races.

That is a much bigger problem as doping for investors!

 

[Klodifan]

some general comments:

noone is saying disco was the only dirty team. they were just the most egregious in the way they looked the other way. hiring birillo is a prime example. if this the the main defense disco defenders use, it is pretty weak. please use another tactic.

as I said in my post at the beginning of this thread, la is probably the one behind the disbanding.

I keep reading here and elsewhere that its a problem that this team didnt find a sponsor. if you read what disco actually says, it is not that they could not find a sponsor, it is that they (disco) "have chosen, however, to end those discussions"

considering the current climate, if and when they reenter the sport, it will be after the doping issues die down. there is no way in hell, considering their history, would they agree to strick in-house doping controls. besides, la doesnt want to be associated w/the sport right now, doesnt care about its survival and is only out for himself and his reputation.