Ahem. Since starting this topic over 10 years ago on google groups a portion of which has ended up here for some reason I have put 90000 miles on dishless wheels I built. I have not only recreated the wheels in the original post but have surpassed them. You can also find photocopies of Campagnolo catalogs which confirm what I stated. My wheels have broken zero spokes this includes the wheels my beta testers use who do things like elude the police. http://zerodish.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/63373992@N07/