Distance training for short distance events



In article <[email protected]>, Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David Hallsworth wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply Donovan...
>>
>>> How long have you been running for and what milage are you doing ? If
>> you're
>>> getting aches and pains, cut down on milage for a little while until you
>> feel
>>> better. In the long run, you'll do better by maintaining the slightly
>> lower
>>> milage consistently over the next year than you will getting hurt and
>> having
>>> to stop running.
>>
>> I have been running consistently for a little under a year. Before I started training for my
>> first 10k (about 6weeks ago), my weekly milage was about 45k, consisting of on weekly long run of
>> about 20km, a 10km tempo run and two 7-8km easy runs. I find my legs need rest days, so I only
>> ever run 4 times a week.
>
> What pace are you doing the easy runs at (and how fast is your race pace) ? Your legs shouldn't
> need 3 rest days a week -- it's a sign that you're pushing too hard during training. An easy day
> should feel like a rest day (again, if it doesn't your easy days are too hard, or your hard
> sessions are too long)
>
> You'd be better off making the tempo run half as long and reducing the long run to about 8 miles
> (16km), then adding another easy run.

Doh! I meant 12.8km (since you measure everything in km, just use 13km)

Sample program: day 1: 13km day 2: 8km easy day 3: rest day 4: speed: 1.5km warmup, 4x800 with 400m
rests, 1.5km cooldown day 5: 8km easy day 6: 5km tempo + 1.5km warmup + 1.5km cooldown day 7: rest

That would give you 45km per week (both the speed sessions add up to your regular daily milage,
which is appropriate). This looks awfully easy on paper -- and it is. That's the point -- when you
distribute your work over 5 or 6 days, and don't overdo harder workouts, it's much easier to take on
a reasonable training load.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David Hallsworth wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply Donovan...
>>
>>> How long have you been running for and what milage are you doing ? If
>> you're
>>> getting aches and pains, cut down on milage for a little while until you
>> feel
>>> better. In the long run, you'll do better by maintaining the slightly
>> lower
>>> milage consistently over the next year than you will getting hurt and
>> having
>>> to stop running.
>>
>> I have been running consistently for a little under a year. Before I started training for my
>> first 10k (about 6weeks ago), my weekly milage was about 45k, consisting of on weekly long run of
>> about 20km, a 10km tempo run and two 7-8km easy runs. I find my legs need rest days, so I only
>> ever run 4 times a week.

> What pace are you doing the easy runs at (and how fast is your race pace) ? Your legs shouldn't
> need 3 rest days a week -- it's a sign that you're pushing too hard during training. An easy day
> should feel like a rest day (again, if it doesn't your easy days are too hard, or your hard
> sessions are too long)

> You'd be better off making the tempo run half as long and reducing the long run to about 8 miles
> (16km), then adding another easy run.

>>> (2) You don't need an enormous amount of speed work for 10k, except possibly when you get closer
>>> to the race. One session of 800m repeats, plus one tempo run (or tempo pace repeats) is
>>> plenty.
>>
>> At the minute, I'm doing one session of short intervals, high reps (i.e. 10x90secs), one session
>> of long intervals, low reps (i.e. 3x8minutes), weekly alternations of a 30 minute tempo / hill
>> run, and a 60min long run (equating to about 12km)

> Sounds like a lot for your milage. Cut either the low reps or the tempo run: you don't need both.
> You should keep doing the long run though.

> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

---Yes, it does sound like a lot. Typically, I only run about 15% of my miles at a high level of
effort. I could see this going as high as 30% for someone in great shape but on limited total
running time...but any more than that is bound to cause tiredness and problems. I'd either up the
mileage or, like Donovan said, cut out a workout and replace it w/easier mileage. If you have time,
a day of 3-4 miles run very easily should work for recovery. If you actually need multiple days off
per week for recovery, you are likely pushing too hard. Good luck, Andy Hass
 
Cheers guys.

I will probably follow Donovan's plan and one week replace the tempo with an easy run and the rext
replace the long-reps with an easy run.

I have been having 3 rest days not because I actually feel that I need them, just that I feel I
should have them. I assumed that because I am quite a severe over pronator I should take these days
off. I also take this time off to persue my climbing. Maybe this tactic has backfired and I have
actually put extra-stress on my legs.

My long run pace is usually in the region of 8:00 - 8:30 / mile My 5 minute intervals are run at
aproximately 6min / mile (getting slower with each interval though!!) My shorter (i.e. 60sec, 90sec)
interval paces are difficult to guage, because I don't work out at a track.

So, how would this sound for the next two weeks:

Mon : Rest Tues (Today) : Planned to do intervals, climbed instead, doing planned intervals tomorrow
Wed : 6x2mins with 3min recoveries Thurs : 30mins (7.5km) steady Friday : Rest (Climbing) Sat : ~5km
easy Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

Mon : Rest Tues : 5km easy Wed : 30mins fartlek Thurs : 5km easy Fri : Rest (Climbing) Sat : 3x7mins
with 3min recoveries Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

Thanks again, Dave
 
In article <[email protected]>, David Hallsworth wrote:
> Cheers guys.
>
> I will probably follow Donovan's plan and one week replace the tempo with an easy run and the rext
> replace the long-reps with an easy run.
>
> I have been having 3 rest days not because I actually feel that I need them, just that I feel I
> should have them. I assumed that because I am quite a severe over pronator I should take these
> days off. I also take this time off to persue my climbing. Maybe this tactic has backfired and I
> have actually put extra-stress on my legs.
>
> My long run pace is usually in the region of 8:00 - 8:30 / mile My 5 minute intervals are run at
> aproximately 6min / mile (getting slower with each interval though!!)

Slow them down until you can do them at uniform pace, or even do the last one faster. Try using
about 6:10 per mile and see if you can do the last one in under 6:00 pace.

> My shorter (i.e. 60sec, 90sec) interval paces are difficult to guage, because I don't work out at
> a track.

This is not as important as tempo runs or longer intervals anyway. Using a fartlek run is probably
the best way to get in some short intermittent speed work.

Here's one idea: you could use something like week 2 when you're close to a race. Further out from
an important race, do something like week 2 but use a tempo run instead of the fartlek session.

> So, how would this sound for the next two weeks:
>
> Mon : Rest Tues (Today) : Planned to do intervals, climbed instead, doing planned intervals
> tomorrow Wed : 6x2mins with 3min recoveries Thurs : 30mins (7.5km) steady
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope that's a typo. Based on what you've said about your
pace, 4min/km
(6:36/mile) is tempo run pace, not really easy. Use about 5min/km or 8 min/M, same as your
long run pace.

> Friday : Rest (Climbing) Sat : ~5km easy Sun : 60mins (~12km) long
>
> Mon : Rest Tues : 5km easy Wed : 30mins fartlek Thurs : 5km easy Fri : Rest (Climbing) Sat :
> 3x7mins with 3min recoveries Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

Looks good.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
David Hallsworth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cheers guys.

> I will probably follow Donovan's plan and one week replace the tempo with an easy run and the rext
> replace the long-reps with an easy run.

> I have been having 3 rest days not because I actually feel that I need them, just that I feel I
> should have them. I assumed that because I am quite a severe over pronator I should take these
> days off. I also take this time off to persue my climbing. Maybe this tactic has backfired and I
> have actually put extra-stress on my legs.

> My long run pace is usually in the region of 8:00 - 8:30 / mile My 5 minute intervals are run at
> aproximately 6min / mile (getting slower with each interval though!!) My shorter (i.e. 60sec,
> 90sec) interval paces are difficult to guage, because I don't work out at a track.

> So, how would this sound for the next two weeks:

> Mon : Rest Tues (Today) : Planned to do intervals, climbed instead, doing planned intervals
> tomorrow Wed : 6x2mins with 3min recoveries Thurs : 30mins (7.5km) steady Friday : Rest (Climbing)
> Sat : ~5km easy Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

> Mon : Rest Tues : 5km easy Wed : 30mins fartlek Thurs : 5km easy Fri : Rest (Climbing) Sat :
> 3x7mins with 3min recoveries Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

> Thanks again, Dave

---Looks good, but one comment on the repeats. Run them at a speed where you can run them all about
even. You should be able to make your last one the fastest, but it should be an effort to do that.
Getting slower means you are going anaerobic and reducing the benefits of the workout. Andy Hass
 
> Slow them down until you can do them at uniform pace, or even do the last
one
> faster. Try using about 6:10 per mile and see if you can do the last one
in
> under 6:00 pace.

Fair enough.

> > My shorter (i.e. 60sec, 90sec) interval paces are difficult to guage, because I don't work out
> > at a track.
>
> This is not as important as tempo runs or longer intervals anyway. Using a fartlek run is probably
> the best way to get in some short intermittent
speed
> work.
>
> Here's one idea: you could use something like week 2 when you're close to a race. Further out from
> an important race, do something like week 2 but
use a
> tempo run instead of the fartlek session.

Will give that a try.

> > So, how would this sound for the next two weeks:
> >
> > Mon : Rest Tues (Today) : Planned to do intervals, climbed instead, doing planned intervals
> > tomorrow Wed : 6x2mins with 3min recoveries Thurs : 30mins (7.5km) steady
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope that's a typo. Based on what you've said about your pace,
> 4min/km
> (6:36/mile) is tempo run pace, not really easy. Use about 5min/km or 8
min/M,
> same as your long run pace.

I wish that was my steady pace - I meant 6 - 6.5km, equating to 5min/km

> > Friday : Rest (Climbing) Sat : ~5km easy Sun : 60mins (~12km) long
> >
> > Mon : Rest Tues : 5km easy Wed : 30mins fartlek Thurs : 5km easy Fri : Rest (Climbing) Sat :
> > 3x7mins with 3min recoveries Sun : 60mins (~12km) long
>
> Looks good.

Cheers, Dave
 
Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David Hallsworth wrote:
>> Cheers guys.
>>
>> I will probably follow Donovan's plan and one week replace the tempo with an easy run and the
>> rext replace the long-reps with an easy run.
>>
>> I have been having 3 rest days not because I actually feel that I need them, just that I feel I
>> should have them. I assumed that because I am quite a severe over pronator I should take these
>> days off. I also take this time off to persue my climbing. Maybe this tactic has backfired and I
>> have actually put extra-stress on my legs.
>>
>> My long run pace is usually in the region of 8:00 - 8:30 / mile My 5 minute intervals are run at
>> aproximately 6min / mile (getting slower with each interval though!!)

> Slow them down until you can do them at uniform pace, or even do the last one faster. Try using
> about 6:10 per mile and see if you can do the last one in under 6:00 pace.

>> My shorter (i.e. 60sec, 90sec) interval paces are difficult to guage, because I don't work out at
>> a track.

> This is not as important as tempo runs or longer intervals anyway. Using a fartlek run is probably
> the best way to get in some short intermittent speed work.

> Here's one idea: you could use something like week 2 when you're close to a race. Further out from
> an important race, do something like week 2 but use a tempo run instead of the fartlek session.

>> So, how would this sound for the next two weeks:
>>
>> Mon : Rest Tues (Today) : Planned to do intervals, climbed instead, doing planned intervals
>> tomorrow Wed : 6x2mins with 3min recoveries Thurs : 30mins (7.5km) steady
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope that's a typo. Based on what you've said about your pace,
> 4min/km
> (6:36/mile) is tempo run pace, not really easy. Use about 5min/km or 8 min/M, same as your long
> run pace.

>> Friday : Rest (Climbing) Sat : ~5km easy Sun : 60mins (~12km) long
>>
>> Mon : Rest Tues : 5km easy Wed : 30mins fartlek Thurs : 5km easy Fri : Rest (Climbing) Sat :
>> 3x7mins with 3min recoveries Sun : 60mins (~12km) long

> Looks good.

> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

---All right, I gotta start reading all the way through before I reply, I'm creating repetitive
posts as we're telling him the same thing. ;) ANdy Hass
 
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