Divorce Your Car --and get into a relationship with a Bike!



"Steve Daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 03:18:16 -0500, against all advice, something
> compelled Kevan Smith <[email protected]>, to say:
>
>>There's really no reason to
>>eat meat other than taste.

>
>
> You say that like that's not a good enough reason.


Animals have a place in my world. On the plate next to the potatoes. <G>

I'm a member of PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

But then there are those of us that are supposed to eat 8 oz of meat a day
and can't eat the subsitutes for whatever reason.

Really, I'm against animal cruelty, but the people at PETA are way too far
to the LEFT on this one.

Charles of Schaumburg
 
"Steve Daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 03:18:16 -0500, against all advice, something
> compelled Kevan Smith <[email protected]>, to say:
>
>>There's really no reason to
>>eat meat other than taste.

>
>
> You say that like that's not a good enough reason.


Cats, the other white meat.
 
"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:


> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
> dietary necessity to eat it.


Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for birds
and squirrels.

People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories to
keep people from starving to death.

Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories. Our
millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make meat eating
more than just a simple choice.

Our body is built for meat eaters all the way to our eyes that are designed
to focus straight ahead for hunting rather tan looking all around as done by
plant eaters being hunted.

People can live on a fully vegetarian diet with our big surplus of food, but
the person must pay a lot of attention to what they are eating.

People have a lot of things that make their lives very busy. Switching to
a vegetarian diet is probably too time consuming for most people.
 
"Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>
>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>> dietary necessity to eat it.

>
> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
> birds and squirrels.
>
> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories
> to keep people from starving to death.


....In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we no
longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of meat,
and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs. Anyone
in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves because we're
evolved to eat them? ;-)

> Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories. Our
> millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make meat
> eating more than just a simple choice.


We are omnivores, which means we can choose. If you look around you,
there's no shortage of calories in most developed nations.

> Our body is built for meat eaters all the way to our eyes that are
> designed to focus straight ahead for hunting rather tan looking all around
> as done by plant eaters being hunted.


So are gorilla eyes. They eat plants.

> People can live on a fully vegetarian diet with our big surplus of food,
> but the person must pay a lot of attention to what they are eating.


It depends on what you mean by vegetarian. The word vegetarian means that
one expresses a respect for life through diet, not that one eats strictly
vegetable matter. Both vegetable and vegetarian have the same root, but
vegetable is not the root for vegetarian. Some vegetarians feel that their
respect for life can only be expressed by avoiding all animal products, and
this form of vegetarianism is called "vegan." Other vegetarians are fine
with eating dairy and eggs, and still other consider fish ok.

I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.

> People have a lot of things that make their lives very busy. Switching
> to a vegetarian diet is probably too time consuming for most people.


We always find time for the things that are important to us. Besides, we're
evolved to spend our time gathering and preparing our food, right?

-Amy
 
Amy Blankenship wrote:
> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>> dietary necessity to eat it.

>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>> birds and squirrels.
>>
>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories
>> to keep people from starving to death.

>
> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we no
> longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of meat,
> and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs. Anyone
> in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves because we're
> evolved to eat them? ;-)
>
>> Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories. Our
>> millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make meat
>> eating more than just a simple choice.

>
> We are omnivores, which means we can choose. If you look around you,
> there's no shortage of calories in most developed nations.


Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
people's lives. We are indeed omnivores but that part of evolution has
locked us out of being vegetarians in the natural world, since we can't
process grass the same way that cattle do.
>
>> Our body is built for meat eaters all the way to our eyes that are
>> designed to focus straight ahead for hunting rather tan looking all around
>> as done by plant eaters being hunted.

>
> So are gorilla eyes. They eat plants.


It is a predator/prey kind of thing, and in that point of view gorillas
are not likely to be prey. Do you think the 600 pound gorilla gives a
hoot about what is behind him? It is only the other kind of ape that the
gorilla needs to worry about, the human kind.
>
>> People can live on a fully vegetarian diet with our big surplus of food,
>> but the person must pay a lot of attention to what they are eating.


If you look at a lot of what people eat in the vegetable/fruit area, you
will find that there are not a lot of calories in some things, so it
would be unreasonable to exist on such a diet. You can get that 'full'
feeling but still not putting 'gas' in the tank.
>
> It depends on what you mean by vegetarian. The word vegetarian means that
> one expresses a respect for life through diet, not that one eats strictly
> vegetable matter. Both vegetable and vegetarian have the same root, but
> vegetable is not the root for vegetarian. Some vegetarians feel that their
> respect for life can only be expressed by avoiding all animal products, and
> this form of vegetarianism is called "vegan." Other vegetarians are fine
> with eating dairy and eggs, and still other consider fish ok.


The "vegans" are a little bit over the top, and I think not all together
in the brains department. I have heard of them refusing to even take a
vitamin supplement if there was a chance of ANY animal product in the
vitamin. That is a little extremist, to be that fanatic that you would
risk your health to avoid any possible animal product. They are such a
minority that they are not affecting the marketing of animal foods, and
as such the vendors don't care.
>
> I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
> our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.


No argument on that topic. Trans-fatty acids and high fructose corn
syrup come to mind quickly and avoiding those two items takes most food
off the shopping list, and almost all restaurants.
>
>> People have a lot of things that make their lives very busy. Switching
>> to a vegetarian diet is probably too time consuming for most people.

>
> We always find time for the things that are important to us. Besides, we're
> evolved to spend our time gathering and preparing our food, right?
>
> -Amy
>
>

Yeah, but mostly it is called work, to earn the money to gather at the
supermarket.
Bill Baka
 
"Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>
>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>> dietary necessity to eat it.

>
> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
> birds and squirrels.
>
> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat.


The Atkins diet involves giving up processed food and eating meat. My
wife has found it the only diet that works for her.
 
"Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>>
>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>> dietary necessity to eat it.

>>
>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>> birds and squirrels.
>>
>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories
>> to keep people from starving to death.

>
> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
> no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of
> meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs.
> Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves
> because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)
>


This is an incorrect statement.
 
"bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>>> dietary necessity to eat it.
>>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>>> birds and squirrels.
>>>
>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>> calories to keep people from starving to death.

>>
>> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
>> no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of
>> meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and
>> bugs. Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket
>> shelves because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)
>>
>>> Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories.
>>> Our millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make
>>> meat eating more than just a simple choice.

>>
>> We are omnivores, which means we can choose. If you look around you,
>> there's no shortage of calories in most developed nations.

>
> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten people's
> lives. We are indeed omnivores but that part of evolution has locked us
> out of being vegetarians in the natural world, since we can't process
> grass the same way that cattle do.


That is why we eat animals. They eat grass; we eat the animal which has
processed the grass for us. Simple.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Amy Blankenship <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories
>> to keep people from starving to death.

>
>...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we no
>longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of meat,
>and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs. Anyone
>in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves because we're
>evolved to eat them? ;-)


Actually, they are a significant source of protein and micronutrients
among vegetarian Indians. As a meat eater I prefer not to consume any
more than necessary, but as a vegetarian you might want to welcome
those additions to your flour.

>I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
>our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.


You can think that, but it's that kind of fuzzy-headed thinking which
leads to malnutrition. It's difficult to eat strictly vegan because
vegan foods tend to lack certain micronutrients -- particularly
vitamin B-12.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
"Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:


>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough calories
>> to keep people from starving to death.

>
> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
> no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of
> meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs.
> Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves
> because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)


Hunting in primitive tribes is a big, if not the predominate source of
protein. The research I have read about the diets ancient tribes talked
mainly about hunting. Bugs did not seem to be a major part of their diet.
If anything, the women would have been collecting the bugs, not the men.
The main research conclusion is that men provided most of the calories from
their hunting.


>> Our body is built for meat eaters all the way to our eyes that are
>> designed to focus straight ahead for hunting rather tan looking all
>> around as done by plant eaters being hunted.

>
> So are gorilla eyes. They eat plants.


Not much of a proof since when a species get big enough (literally 600 pound
gorillas) where they are no longer threatened with being eaten, the body
design changes over time. If you are not being hunted, a wide angle view is
not needed.

I can only guess that the forward looking eyes are for climbing in trees to
get fruit for the western and leaves for the eastern gorillas (did a little
googling)

> I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
> our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.


This is starting to sound like all the stupid conspiracy theories for
transit. Generally when something is done by only a small percentage of
people it usually means that there is fundamentally something wrong that is
objectionable to most people.

> We always find time for the things that are important to us. Besides,
> we're evolved to spend our time gathering and preparing our food, right?


You will quickly realize how wrong you are if your life ever becomes
extremely busy where you are constantly fighting burn out and getting to the
store becomes hard to do. I am often in that mode and have to be sure to
have at least 4 weeks of food in the house for me and the cats to get me
between times when shopping is possible.

Makes me really appreciate CostCo and Pet Club
 
"bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:


> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten people's
> lives.


I just got through reading the summary in New Scientist of a large research
project to determine what foods have a statistically significant effect on
health. The only things that have a statistically significant effect on
health are sugar, salt, and fat. I think there was a fourth thin but I
don't remember if there was are not.

The study toughly disproved all the superstitions about food like your
processed food shortening people's lives, etc. Life span has been
increasing for many years. All these theories just can not be shown to be
statistically significant.


>>
>> So are gorilla eyes. They eat plants.

>
> It is a predator/prey kind of thing, and in that point of view gorillas
> are not likely to be prey. Do you think the 600 pound gorilla gives a hoot
> about what is behind him? It is only the other kind of ape that the
> gorilla needs to worry about, the human kind.


True. Same with whales which are evolving differently than predators and
prey.
 
Jack May wrote:
> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>
>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten people's
>> lives.

>
> I just got through reading the summary in New Scientist of a large research
> project to determine what foods have a statistically significant effect on
> health. The only things that have a statistically significant effect on
> health are sugar, salt, and fat. I think there was a fourth thin but I
> don't remember if there was are not.


Trans fatty acids? Direct cholesterol intake, I.E. eggs?
>
> The study toughly disproved all the superstitions about food like your
> processed food shortening people's lives, etc. Life span has been
> increasing for many years. All these theories just can not be shown to be
> statistically significant.


Life span was increasing but from what I have seen is now decreasing.
Medical intervention has obviously gotten better as well as nutritional
education, but work has gone from energy expended to keyboards typed,
not good for an exercise oriented body. The obesity plague is a definite
problem with many people developing diabetes early on. Add to that the
fact that more women are smokers and things add up. Two people I know
have died in the last two years, and both were or should have been
preventable. My wife's best friend and my best friend's wife, same
person, had mild diabetes from overweight, so her immune system was down
and she got both a flu infection and pneumonia within about 3 days. She
was dead at 55 within 24 hours. A neighbor behind me was a smoker and
held the belief that whatever she did to herself the doctor would have a
pill for. She had a virtual (literal) pharmacy in her kitchen cabinets.
Pat was only 53 when she had a thrombosis in her lung that killed her in
about two hours flat. My wife is 60 now and still smokes so where does
that leave me at 58 and perfectly healthy from riding and never smoking?
Probably single the hard way within a decade. Life span only increased
with medical advances, not by sitting in front of a television or a
stressed out day in a cubicle with a computer.
>
>
>>> So are gorilla eyes. They eat plants.

>> It is a predator/prey kind of thing, and in that point of view gorillas
>> are not likely to be prey. Do you think the 600 pound gorilla gives a hoot
>> about what is behind him? It is only the other kind of ape that the
>> gorilla needs to worry about, the human kind.

>
> True. Same with whales which are evolving differently than predators and
> prey.
>


If we give them the chance to evolve we could have some intelligent life
right here on earth to talk to. I think if we could break the language
barrier we might have some surprises coming. Whales may pass along
knowledge verbally since they can't have a written language, and their
brains are larger than ours. Could get interesting.
Bill Baka
 
"george conklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>>>> dietary necessity to eat it.
>>>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>>>> birds and squirrels.
>>>>
>>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>>> calories to keep people from starving to death.
>>>
>>> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
>>> no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of
>>> meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and
>>> bugs. Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket
>>> shelves because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)
>>>
>>>> Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories.
>>>> Our millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make
>>>> meat eating more than just a simple choice.
>>>
>>> We are omnivores, which means we can choose. If you look around you,
>>> there's no shortage of calories in most developed nations.

>>
>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
>> people's lives. We are indeed omnivores but that part of evolution has
>> locked us out of being vegetarians in the natural world, since we can't
>> process grass the same way that cattle do.

>
> That is why we eat animals. They eat grass; we eat the animal which has
> processed the grass for us. Simple.


That is the way it's *supposed* to work. But as you've often pointed out,
grass is not what most meat animals are fed these days. Grain is among the
more wholesome things they get.
 
"bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack May wrote:
>> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:

>>
>>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
>>> people's lives.

>>
>> I just got through reading the summary in New Scientist of a large
>> research project to determine what foods have a statistically significant
>> effect on health. The only things that have a statistically significant
>> effect on health are sugar, salt, and fat. I think there was a fourth
>> thin but I don't remember if there was are not.

>
> Trans fatty acids? Direct cholesterol intake, I.E. eggs?


Commercial eggs are bad for you, but pastured eggs are high in good
cholesterol and low in bad cholesterol. I've lost about 4 lbs since my hens
started laying.

>> The study toughly disproved all the superstitions about food like your
>> processed food shortening people's lives, etc. Life span has been
>> increasing for many years. All these theories just can not be shown to
>> be statistically significant.

>
> Life span was increasing but from what I have seen is now decreasing.
> Medical intervention has obviously gotten better as well as nutritional
> education, but work has gone from energy expended to keyboards typed, not
> good for an exercise oriented body. The obesity plague is a definite
> problem with many people developing diabetes early on.


This is largely because processed starch is more easily converted to sugar
by the body. And frying, another form of processing that adds fat to the
food.

> Add to that the fact that more women are smokers and things add up. Two
> people I know have died in the last two years, and both were or should
> have been preventable. My wife's best friend and my best friend's wife,
> same person, had mild diabetes from overweight, so her immune system was
> down and she got both a flu infection and pneumonia within about 3 days.
> She was dead at 55 within 24 hours. A neighbor behind me was a smoker and
> held the belief that whatever she did to herself the doctor would have a
> pill for. She had a virtual (literal) pharmacy in her kitchen cabinets.
> Pat was only 53 when she had a thrombosis in her lung that killed her in
> about two hours flat. My wife is 60 now and still smokes so where does
> that leave me at 58 and perfectly healthy from riding and never smoking?


Aw, don't get so down. You've probably inhaled enough second hand smoke to
be fairly even with her.

-Amy
 
"george conklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>>> dietary necessity to eat it.
>>>
>>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>>> birds and squirrels.
>>>
>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>> calories to keep people from starving to death.

>>
>> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
>> no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of
>> meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and
>> bugs. Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves
>> because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)
>>

>
> This is an incorrect statement.


Tell that to the Australian aborigines and other people in various parts of
the world who still eat this type of diet.
 
"Matthew Russotto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Amy Blankenship <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>> calories
>>> to keep people from starving to death.

>>
>>...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
>>no
>>longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of meat,
>>and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs.
>>Anyone
>>in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves because we're
>>evolved to eat them? ;-)

>
> Actually, they are a significant source of protein and micronutrients
> among vegetarian Indians. As a meat eater I prefer not to consume any
> more than necessary, but as a vegetarian you might want to welcome
> those additions to your flour.


I never said I was a vegetarian, though some might say I am. I don't eat
anything it would bother me to see dead by the side of the road. My
principal objections to the meat industry in this country, though, are due
to the way the animals are raised and the unsanitary conditions during and
after slaughter. It would curl your hair to know what happens between
having a live chicken and a chicken on your dinner table.

>>I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
>>our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.

>
> You can think that, but it's that kind of fuzzy-headed thinking which
> leads to malnutrition. It's difficult to eat strictly vegan because
> vegan foods tend to lack certain micronutrients -- particularly
> vitamin B-12.


There are a few vegan B-12 substances, though they can be difficult to get.
 
Amy Blankenship wrote:
> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jack May wrote:
>>> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
>>>> people's lives.
>>> I just got through reading the summary in New Scientist of a large
>>> research project to determine what foods have a statistically significant
>>> effect on health. The only things that have a statistically significant
>>> effect on health are sugar, salt, and fat. I think there was a fourth
>>> thin but I don't remember if there was are not.

>> Trans fatty acids? Direct cholesterol intake, I.E. eggs?

>
> Commercial eggs are bad for you, but pastured eggs are high in good
> cholesterol and low in bad cholesterol. I've lost about 4 lbs since my hens
> started laying.
>
>>> The study toughly disproved all the superstitions about food like your
>>> processed food shortening people's lives, etc. Life span has been
>>> increasing for many years. All these theories just can not be shown to
>>> be statistically significant.

>> Life span was increasing but from what I have seen is now decreasing.
>> Medical intervention has obviously gotten better as well as nutritional
>> education, but work has gone from energy expended to keyboards typed, not
>> good for an exercise oriented body. The obesity plague is a definite
>> problem with many people developing diabetes early on.

>
> This is largely because processed starch is more easily converted to sugar
> by the body. And frying, another form of processing that adds fat to the
> food.


One of the main things I have noticed is the McJunk fast food places all
over the damn place, and busy filling people with total ****. This does
not bode well for the lifespan of the junk food junkies. I would be
willing to bet that the lifespan numbers start to come down in the near
future due to the junk food plague and the fact that people actually
think that sitting at a computer all day is *work*. Work is BTU output
actually doing something like our parents did. Pushing keys is not work
but it is stress, so there is a negative outcome on health.
>
>> Add to that the fact that more women are smokers and things add up. Two
>> people I know have died in the last two years, and both were or should
>> have been preventable. My wife's best friend and my best friend's wife,
>> same person, had mild diabetes from overweight, so her immune system was
>> down and she got both a flu infection and pneumonia within about 3 days.
>> She was dead at 55 within 24 hours. A neighbor behind me was a smoker and
>> held the belief that whatever she did to herself the doctor would have a
>> pill for. She had a virtual (literal) pharmacy in her kitchen cabinets.
>> Pat was only 53 when she had a thrombosis in her lung that killed her in
>> about two hours flat. My wife is 60 now and still smokes so where does
>> that leave me at 58 and perfectly healthy from riding and never smoking?

>
> Aw, don't get so down. You've probably inhaled enough second hand smoke to
> be fairly even with her.


Gotcha.
I make her smoke outside.
Really!
I am an anti smoke Nazi.
Bill Baka
>
> -Amy
>
>
 
Amy Blankenship wrote:
> "Matthew Russotto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Amy Blankenship <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>>> calories
>>>> to keep people from starving to death.
>>> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which we
>>> no
>>> longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot of meat,
>>> and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and bugs.
>>> Anyone
>>> in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket shelves because we're
>>> evolved to eat them? ;-)

>> Actually, they are a significant source of protein and micronutrients
>> among vegetarian Indians. As a meat eater I prefer not to consume any
>> more than necessary, but as a vegetarian you might want to welcome
>> those additions to your flour.

>
> I never said I was a vegetarian, though some might say I am. I don't eat
> anything it would bother me to see dead by the side of the road. My
> principal objections to the meat industry in this country, though, are due
> to the way the animals are raised and the unsanitary conditions during and
> after slaughter. It would curl your hair to know what happens between
> having a live chicken and a chicken on your dinner table.


I can tell you since I worked one whole day at a chicken processing
plant for KFC when I went to Arkansas to visit my dad. The high school
kids who work there grab the chickens out of the cage by the neck and
twirl them to break their necks. Now comes the good part. Somewhere in
the past one of them discovered that if you squeeze the **** out of a
dead chicken, well, you really can squeeze the **** out of a dead
chicken, about a 15 - 20 foot squirt. They actually came to break
covered in....you guessed it, chicken ****, because they had chicken
**** fights with the dead birds.
Now go to KFC and buy some chicken that has been processed by this
wonderfully sanitary plant.
Yuck.
Bill Baka
>
>>> I think the reason it's difficult to eat strictly vegan is that we process
>>> our food to death and a lot of the nutrients have been surgically removed.

>> You can think that, but it's that kind of fuzzy-headed thinking which
>> leads to malnutrition. It's difficult to eat strictly vegan because
>> vegan foods tend to lack certain micronutrients -- particularly
>> vitamin B-12.

>
> There are a few vegan B-12 substances, though they can be difficult to get.
>
>
 
"Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "george conklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>>>> Cholesterol is both. It harms you when you eat it, and there is no
>>>>>> dietary necessity to eat it.
>>>>> Tell that to the hawk that is using my back yard as a supermarket for
>>>>> birds and squirrels.
>>>>>
>>>>> People have evolved over millions of years to eat meat. We know that
>>>>> gathering activities by women in tribes could not provide enough
>>>>> calories to keep people from starving to death.
>>>>
>>>> ...In the event that they're spending all their time savenging, which
>>>> we no longer do. And keep in mind that these people did not eat a lot
>>>> of meat, and much of the meat they did eat was in the form of worms and
>>>> bugs. Anyone in favor of adding worms and bugs to the supermarket
>>>> shelves because we're evolved to eat them? ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Hunting and scavenging meat was required to provide enough calories.
>>>>> Our millions of years of evolution as meat eaters would tend to make
>>>>> meat eating more than just a simple choice.
>>>>
>>>> We are omnivores, which means we can choose. If you look around you,
>>>> there's no shortage of calories in most developed nations.
>>>
>>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
>>> people's lives. We are indeed omnivores but that part of evolution has
>>> locked us out of being vegetarians in the natural world, since we can't
>>> process grass the same way that cattle do.

>>
>> That is why we eat animals. They eat grass; we eat the animal which has
>> processed the grass for us. Simple.

>
> That is the way it's *supposed* to work. But as you've often pointed out,
> grass is not what most meat animals are fed these days. Grain is among
> the more wholesome things they get.
>



True Amy. But whan can we do about it? Any ideas?
 
"Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jack May wrote:
>>> "bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>>>> "Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also no shortage of processed food that is now working to shorten
>>>> people's lives.
>>>
>>> I just got through reading the summary in New Scientist of a large
>>> research project to determine what foods have a statistically
>>> significant effect on health. The only things that have a
>>> statistically significant effect on health are sugar, salt, and fat. I
>>> think there was a fourth thin but I don't remember if there was are not.

>>
>> Trans fatty acids? Direct cholesterol intake, I.E. eggs?

>
> Commercial eggs are bad for you, but pastured eggs are high in good
> cholesterol and low in bad cholesterol. I've lost about 4 lbs since my
> hens started laying.
>
>>> The study toughly disproved all the superstitions about food like your
>>> processed food shortening people's lives, etc. Life span has been
>>> increasing for many years. All these theories just can not be shown to
>>> be statistically significant.

>>
>> Life span was increasing but from what I have seen is now decreasing.
>> Medical intervention has obviously gotten better as well as nutritional
>> education, but work has gone from energy expended to keyboards typed, not
>> good for an exercise oriented body. The obesity plague is a definite
>> problem with many people developing diabetes early on.

>
> This is largely because processed starch is more easily converted to sugar
> by the body. And frying, another form of processing that adds fat to the
> food.
>
>> Add to that the fact that more women are smokers and things add up. Two
>> people I know have died in the last two years, and both were or should
>> have been preventable. My wife's best friend and my best friend's wife,
>> same person, had mild diabetes from overweight, so her immune system was
>> down and she got both a flu infection and pneumonia within about 3 days.
>> She was dead at 55 within 24 hours. A neighbor behind me was a smoker and
>> held the belief that whatever she did to herself the doctor would have a
>> pill for. She had a virtual (literal) pharmacy in her kitchen cabinets.
>> Pat was only 53 when she had a thrombosis in her lung that killed her in
>> about two hours flat. My wife is 60 now and still smokes so where does
>> that leave me at 58 and perfectly healthy from riding and never smoking?

>
> Aw, don't get so down. You've probably inhaled enough second hand smoke
> to be fairly even with her.
>
> -Amy
>



I've notice when I heat with wood, with a NEW Buckstove (EPA-Aproved) that
the house is full of fine ash. Smoke? What about fine particles?