Getting closer. And it's been used on a bike? For a ships mooring line?
I suspect reasons for not using it on a bike include 1) Not working (can't cope with the sharp bends) 2) Money and 3) No point (there's hardly any weight in cables.) I suspect reasons for not using it on a ship include 1) Not robust enough (maltreatment, dragging over quays, salt water, etc), 2) Money, and 3) No point (ships don't worry about weight).
Add to reason 1 degrades in UV light.
I don't think carbon fibre itself degrades in UV light. Epoxy resin, which is the most commonly used resin in the construction of carbon composites, certainly does so, but that would not be required if you were using the carbon simply as rope.
On 4/12/04 10:42 am, in article [email hidden], "Chris
Malcolm said:
What persuaded me that there was little point in pursuing light weight bike and bits was considering that what mattered was the total weight of me, bike, and what I usually carry on it. It would cost me nothing and be good for my health to lose at least a stone in weight. And if I was more careful with scheduling my time I'd carry fewer books and papers. Not to mention having a [censored] before setting out. What I could save by using carbon fibre and titanium at considerable cost pales into insignificance besides those considerations.
But if you do all those other things then you get better relative bang for buck on the Shiny New Bits [tm].
OK, the forty million monkeys now want to talk to us about the complete text of Shakespeare they've come up with. It looks as if half_wit is right: you could make exceedingly good brake and gear cables out of this stuff. Putting terminations on it would be pretty easy, and it is five time the strength per unit area and fifteen times per unit weight. Its stretch properties are similar to steel, it does not corrode, and it is available teflon coated. The only question I have is whether you can anchor the end by crimping, or whether this will damage the fibre.
The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.
The rider infront of you is using special lightweight cables, and there are certaintly many cables lighter and stronger (and which stretch less) than steel.
Like what? Generically I'm aware of lighter cables, but they generally are a lot less stiff, and not suited to bicycle use. What are you proposing to use for cables on a bike that's lighter, stronger and stiffer than stiff?
Or are you talking bollocks from a position of complete ignorance again?
"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Intrigued. I'm always after cables which stretch less. Got any examples? Commercially available would be useful, although I'll accept experimental ones on bikes if you can't find anything commercial.
Yes take a look at the mooring of any large ship, they certainty won't be using a steel cable,
You really are completely ignorant aren't you. Large ships moor with steel cables.
And to save you teh effort of spouting more ignorant rubbish: Suspension bridges hang from steel cables. Cable-stayed bridges use steel cables. Cranes use steel cables.
No, carbon itself is pretty much inert, and doesn't mind UV. The resins it is normalluy used with don't like UV, but CFRP suffers less than most from UV exposure because teh carbon is black, so surface fibres block a lot of the light.
However, you wouldn't encase fibres being used in a cable in resin.
Problems with carbon cables are anchoring them at teh ends, a dislike of sharp bends, and the fibres are not very tough.
"Mike Causer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Almost everything expands as it gets hotter and contracts as it gets colder. The major exception is water, which constitutes 65% of your body as you well know. So as you and your bike get colder, it contracts but you, within a certain temperature range, get bigger. >
Water also contracts as it gets colder, it only expands at 0 (degrees C) as it forms into ice.
Nope, maximum density of water [1] is just below 4C, below that it starts to expand again.
[1] In the liquid phase that is. In the gaseous phase it can be compressed so that it is considerably denser than the liquid. In fact the "steam" inside the pipes of a powerstation is compressed gas, and much heavier than water. (I forget the actual figures, it's been 30 years since I needed to know them.)
OK, the forty million monkeys now want to talk to us about the complete text of Shakespeare they've come up with. It looks as if half_wit is right: you could make exceedingly good brake and gear cables out of this stuff. Putting terminations on it would be pretty easy, and it is five time the strength per unit area and fifteen times per unit weight. Its stretch properties are similar to steel, it does not corrode, and it is available teflon coated. The only question I have is whether you can anchor the end by crimping, or whether this will damage the fibre.
I'll admit to thinking along the same sort of lines, but had more questions:
How good is it at resisting the sort of damage one would get in normal use? How good is it at being bent in the radii one gets in normal use? Given that a large proportion of 'stretch' in a bicycle cable system is in fact compression of the outer, how much difference would such a CF cable/rope make? (ditto for weight).
"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
in message <[email hidden]>, JBB
(') said:
"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"half_pint" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Maybe something like this stuff (carbon fibre) > http://www.fibraplex.com/string.asp
Getting closer. And it's been used on a bike? For a ships mooring line?
I suspect reasons for not using it on a bike include 1) Not working (can't cope with the sharp bends) 2) Money and 3) No point (there's hardly any weight in cables.) I suspect reasons for not using it on a ship include 1) Not robust enough (maltreatment, dragging over quays, salt water, etc), 2) Money, and 3) No point (ships don't worry about weight).
Add to reason 1 degrades in UV light.
I don't think carbon fibre itself degrades in UV light. Epoxy resin, which is the most commonly used resin in the construction of carbon composites, certainly does so, but that would not be required if you were using the carbon simply as rope.
IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care in the community for you. -- Ben Evans
You could well be right there - I don't kmow. I do know that it doesn't respond well to crushing so would be a problem fof bicycle cables where the cable "joined" the derailleur.
"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
JBB said:
Add to reason 1 degrades in UV light.
No, carbon itself is pretty much inert, and doesn't mind UV. The resins it is normalluy used with don't like UV, but CFRP suffers less than most from UV exposure because teh carbon is black, so surface fibres block a lot of the light.
However, you wouldn't encase fibres being used in a cable in resin.
Problems with carbon cables are anchoring them at teh ends, a dislike of sharp bends, and the fibres are not very tough.
Clive George [email hidden] opined the following...
Quoted message said:
How good is it at resisting the sort of damage one would get in normal use?
Probably not as good as steel. There is a reason that carbon fibre can be cut with a craft knife, while steel requires a hacksaw.
Quoted message said:
How good is it at being bent in the radii one gets in normal use?
May not be as good. The inherent stiffness might actually cause problems. It is one of the reasons (It appears) why vacuum bagging is recommended for producing CF items as it has a habit of trying to straighten out away from the surface it's wrapped around.
Quoted message said:
Given that a large proportion of 'stretch' in a bicycle cable system is in fact compression of the outer, how much difference would such a CF cable/rope make? (ditto for weight).
Little to none. For the additional costs + engineering I would suspect that the weight loss would be negligible. If they could do this, I suspect that the Shiny New Bits manufacturers would have done so already.
"Chris Malcolm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
half_pint said:
"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
in message <[email hidden]>, half_pint
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Don't be silly. My road bike is carbon fibre, its cables are stainless steel, just like on any other bike.
Quoted message said:
Does seem a bit off when cyclists go to great lengths to get lighter components and then neglect the cables don't you think? I would imaging the weight of cabling on a bike is small but not inconsiderable.
What persuaded me that there was little point in pursuing light weight bike and bits was considering that what mattered was the total weight of me, bike, and what I usually carry on it. It would cost me nothing and be good for my health to lose at least a stone in weight. And if I was more careful with scheduling my time I'd carry fewer books and papers. Not to mention having a [censored] before setting out. What I could save by using carbon fibre and titanium at considerable cost pales into insignificance besides those considerations.
Well maybe not you but competive riders might, or people interested in breaking races, do you have any idea how much energy it talks to carry 4 steel cables to the top of a mountain or indeed round the Tour de France?
Quoted message said:
-- Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Well maybe not you but competive riders might, or people interested in breaking races, do you have any idea how much energy it talks to carry 4 steel cables to the top of a mountain or indeed round the Tour de France?
Nowhere near as much as the additional resin used to make your CF frame look shiny and resist dents.
I would remind you that the good Mr Armstrong had to have weights fitted to his bike during the most recent TdF in order to bring its weight[1] up to the UCI minimum. Now if you can make the cables aerodynamic...
Well maybe not you but competive riders might, or people interested in breaking races, do you have any idea how much energy it talks to carry 4 steel cables to the top of a mountain or indeed round the Tour de France?
Nowhere near as much as the additional resin used to make your CF frame look shiny and resist dents.
I would remind you that the good Mr Armstrong had to have weights fitted to his bike during the most recent TdF in order to bring its weight[1] up to the UCI minimum. Now if you can make the cables aerodynamic...
You mean route them through the handlebars and frame ... 😉
-- Paul ... http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php "A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using." (8(|) Homer Rules !!!
