Do Mountain Bikers Have Any Balls?

[Mike Vandeman]

At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:

> Mike,

> Just so you know, I am a mountain biker and a mountaineer who cares
deeply about the environment.

Caring is as caring DOES. People who truly care reflect that in their ACTIONS.

> I think it is wrong to say that mountain
bikers are out to harm the environment.

I never said it is INTENTIONAL! But it is still destructive.

>Everyone that I ride with is very
conscious of leaving no trace when we are out and we frequently pick up after hikers that have left
wrappers, tissues, etc. on the trail.

Good. So keep your bikes on pavement, and HIKE in nature.

> As you know, getting outside and into the mountains is a very
fulfilling and uplifting experience that should not be off limits to someone just because they are
on a bike.

You are LYING. There isn't a single trail in the world closed to mountain bikers. It is only BIKES
that are banned. You CAN walk, can't you?

> If we really want to address the issue of wildlife having no place
to live then we should start talking about the real source of the problem; overpopulation.

I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining people can still destroy the
environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be changed.

> If people would quit having so many damn babies this world
would be a much better place and the balance could begin to be restored but no one seems to have the
balls to stand up and say that.

Actually, a lot of people are saying just that. But very few people have the balls to say that
mountain biking should be banned, partly because mountain bikers ******** anyone who has the guts to
speak out against their selfish, destructive sport.

By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of overpopulation in their
newsgroup. You are just trying to change the subject away from the destruction that mountain
biking does.

> Peace,
Jeff

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Lightweight]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:
>
> > Mike,
>
> I have a vasectomy and no kids.
>

Ahh, Natural Selection never fails. You qualify for a Darwin award now, all you gotta do is die in a
stupid manner.

 

[Chris McMartin]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Good. So keep your bikes on pavement, and HIKE in nature.

I thought you were against hiking? You can't have it both ways.

> > As you know, getting outside and into the mountains is a very
> fulfilling and uplifting experience that should not be off limits to
someone
> just because they are on a bike.
>
> You are LYING. There isn't a single trail in the world closed to mountain bikers. It is only BIKES
> that are banned. You CAN walk, can't you?

He is stating his opinion. A statement of opinion cannot be a lie. Again, your command of the
English language is underwhelming!

His opinion says that "an area shouldn't be off limits to someone just because they are on a bike."
Rather than simply disagreeing (by saying "yes, it should" which would be coherent) you change the
subject to one of your inane mantras ("only BIKES are banned").

> I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining
people can
> still destroy the environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be
changed.

So the people who may ultimately (in their opinion) "save the planet" are not passing their genes
along, but the people who "don't care" ARE! Ain't that a kick in the pants!

> By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of overpopulation in their
> newsgroup. You are just trying to change the
subject
> away from the destruction that mountain biking does.

Why SHOULD they talk about overpopulation? It's off-topic.

 

[Surgius]

Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I have a vasectomy and no kids.
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

That is something we can all be thankful for.

 

[Bb]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman wrote:
>
> Caring is as caring DOES.

Somehow fitting that he uses Forrest Gump as a model.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

 

[Wayne]

Mike Vandeman wrote:

>At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:
>
>
>I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining people can still destroy the
>environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be changed.
>
Thank You! Thank You

 

[Critic]

I am glad that at least the Sierra Club had enough balls to put you in your place. Congrats,
********, you have succeeded in making that organization look reasonable for a change.

 

[Ken B]

I'd like to see one shred of proof that mountain biking is destroing the environment. Ha! I've seen
no evidence WHAT SO EVER here,or anywhere else for that matter, proving that statement. None.

The latest attempt at proof of environmental destruction is:
http://www.santabarbarahikes.com/ComparisonTrails/damage.shtml. Nice try, but no luck there. All I
see are perfectly normal mountiain biking trails. No vast expanses of deforestation, no depletion of
the ozone layer, no global warming green house gas emissions, no carcasses of endangered animal
species (or any species for that matter) littering the side of the trail. All I read in the linked
site are lies and misrepresentations.

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that if ANYTHING is detructive, it is the hikers. They
are the ones who leave trash all along the trails. They are the ones who cut down trees to block
access to the trails for those of us who like to ride them. They are the ones who bring their pets
along for the walk, disobeying leash laws and not packing out the animal's waste products. Add to
that the fact that hikers are ignorant and rude -- when's the last time a hiker said hi, or moved
out of the way when you were grunting up a hill past him/her, or picked up their trash??? Yeah,
right. Keep dreaming. Hikers are a menace and they should be treated as such when met on the trail.

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

>At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>
>> Just so you know, I am a mountain biker and a mountaineer who cares
>deeply about the environment.
>
>Caring is as caring DOES. People who truly care reflect that in their ACTIONS.
>
>> I think it is wrong to say that mountain
>bikers are out to harm the environment.
>
>I never said it is INTENTIONAL! But it is still destructive.
>
>>Everyone that I ride with is very
>conscious of leaving no trace when we are out and we frequently pick up after hikers that have left
>wrappers, tissues, etc. on the trail.
>
>Good. So keep your bikes on pavement, and HIKE in nature.
>
>> As you know, getting outside and into the mountains is a very
>fulfilling and uplifting experience that should not be off limits to someone just because they are
>on a bike.
>
>You are LYING. There isn't a single trail in the world closed to mountain bikers. It is only BIKES
>that are banned. You CAN walk, can't you?
>
>> If we really want to address the issue of wildlife having no place
>to live then we should start talking about the real source of the problem; overpopulation.
>
>I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining people can still destroy the
>environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be changed.
>
>> If people would quit having so many damn babies this world
>would be a much better place and the balance could begin to be restored but no one seems to have
>the balls to stand up and say that.
>
>Actually, a lot of people are saying just that. But very few people have the balls to say that
>mountain biking should be banned, partly because mountain bikers ******** anyone who has the guts
>to speak out against their selfish, destructive sport.
>
>By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of overpopulation in their
>newsgroup. You are just trying to change the subject away from the destruction that mountain
>biking does.
>
>> Peace,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>===
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Joshua E. Rodd]

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of overpopulation in their
> newsgroup. You are just trying to change the subject away from the destruction that mountain
> biking does.

Yes they have. See <[email protected]>, posted to several of the
newsgroups you've annoyingly crossposted your latest troll to:

"Why spend so much energy on denying people from having fun, when the real problem this Earth faces
is overpopulation?"

This proves that Mike Vandemann is a LIAR. He LIES, or else is such a DUM-DUM he can't do a simple
Google Groups search. DUH!

--
Joshua E. Rodd <[email protected]

 

[Guy Chapman]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have a vasectomy and no kids

So the question was not so much whether mountain bikers have balls, but whether they are still
connected to the rest of the reproductive apparatus?

Guy
===
Now available in both wedgie and bent flavours!

** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting) Above email is a spam-sink. Remove maker of Spam from
[email protected] to reply by mail

 

[Ryszardjh]

>I have a vasectomy and no kids

Finaly some good news from Mike Rich H

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Why, no luck with the search for your own Mike?

Shaun aRe - Now, come here so I can give you a big sloppy kiss, you big old hunk o' gorgeousness
you! ',;~}

 

[Michael Dart]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
<snip load of usual BS>

> . . .=== .I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .humans ("pure
> habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .years fighting auto dependence and road
> construction.) . .http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
> Right on, Mike!
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

You talking to yourself now Mike?

MD

 

[Jeff Strickland]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote: . .> Mike, . .> Just so you know, I am a
> mountain biker and a mountaineer who cares .deeply about the environment. . .Caring is as caring
> DOES. People who truly care reflect that in their
ACTIONS.
> . .> I think it is wrong to say that mountain .bikers are out to harm the environment. . .I never
> said it is INTENTIONAL! But it is still destructive. .

You have repeatedly stated that it is intentional. You have said that all mountain bikers are thugs,
and the definition of a thug is one that intentionally does destructive things.

> .>Everyone that I ride with is very .conscious of leaving no trace when we are out and we
> frequently pick up .after hikers that have left wrappers, tissues, etc. on the trail. . .Good. So
> keep your bikes on pavement, and HIKE in nature. .

How can concerned bikers pick up trash left on the trail by hikers if they are forced to keep the
bikes on the pavement? Your own position makes no sense.

> .> As you know, getting outside and into the mountains is a very .fulfilling and uplifting
> experience that should not be off limits to
someone
> .just because they are on a bike. . .You are LYING. There isn't a single trail in the world closed
> to mountain .bikers. It is only BIKES that are banned. You CAN walk, can't you? .

There is no point in walking when we can ride. The statement made was that the "uplifting experience
that should not be off limits to someone just because they are on a bike." And your response is that
the off limits is not imposed if a person is walking. That makes no sense, because if the uplifting
experience is denied because someone is riding, then walking will not provide the same experience,
and your solution is unrealistic. It is selfish too, but that is another topic.

> .> If we really want to address the issue of wildlife having no place .to live then we should
> start talking about the real source of the
problem;
> .overpopulation. . .I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining
people can
> .still destroy the environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be
changed.
> .

Thank God you had your tube tied.

> .> If people would quit having so many damn babies this world .would be a much better place and
> the balance could begin to be restored
but
> .no one seems to have the balls to stand up and say that. . .Actually, a lot of people are saying
> just that. But very few people have
the
> .balls to say that mountain biking should be banned, partly because
mountain
> .bikers ******** anyone who has the guts to speak out against their
selfish,
> .destructive sport. . .By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of
> .overpopulation in their newsgroup. You are just trying to change the
subject
> .away from the destruction that mountain biking does. . .> Peace,
> . Jeff

 

[James M . Lane]

On 29 Nov 2002 15:05:52 -0800, [email protected] (Surgius) wrote:

>Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> I have a vasectomy and no kids.
>> ===
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
>That is something we can all be thankful for.

Yep, the one event in his life he actually deserves credit for - voluntarily trimming the gene pool.
But, ohmygod, maybe he'll get in touch with that Italian doctor and clone hisself!

jim

 

[Gary S.]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:36:50 -0500, "Lightweight" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Ahh, Natural Selection never fails. You qualify for a Darwin award now, all you gotta do is die in
>a stupid manner.
>
Living in a stupid manner is an appropriate start.

Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

 

[Gary S.]

On 29 Nov 2002 15:05:52 -0800, [email protected] (Surgius) wrote:

>Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> I have a vasectomy and no kids.
>> ===
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
>That is something we can all be thankful for.

Do you have any idea of how much we would have to pay for therapy for Mikey's kids, if he had any?

We should definitely be thankful.

Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

 

[Surgius]

But this rock has been scarred! SCARRED I TELL YOU!!!! =O Damn you mountain bikers and your rock
scarring machines of death!

http://www.santabarbarahikes.com/ComparisonTrails/damage.shtml?rattlesnake06

"Ken B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'd like to see one shred of proof that mountain biking is destroing the environment. Ha! I've
> seen no evidence WHAT SO EVER here,or anywhere else for that matter, proving that statement. None.
>
> The latest attempt at proof of environmental destruction is:
> http://www.santabarbarahikes.com/ComparisonTrails/damage.shtml. Nice try, but no luck there. All I
> see are perfectly normal mountiain biking trails. No vast expanses of deforestation, no depletion
> of the ozone layer, no global warming green house gas emissions, no carcasses of endangered animal
> species (or any species for that matter) littering the side of the trail. All I read in the linked
> site are lies and misrepresentations.
>
> The plain and simple fact of the matter is that if ANYTHING is detructive, it is the hikers. They
> are the ones who leave trash all along the trails. They are the ones who cut down trees to block
> access to the trails for those of us who like to ride them. They are the ones who bring their
> pets along for the walk, disobeying leash laws and not packing out the animal's waste products.
> Add to that the fact that hikers are ignorant and rude -- when's the last time a hiker said hi,
> or moved out of the way when you were grunting up a hill past him/her, or picked up their
> trash??? Yeah, right. Keep dreaming. Hikers are a menace and they should be treated as such when
> met on the trail.
>
>
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:49:57 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:
> >
> >> Mike,
> >
> >> Just so you know, I am a mountain biker and a mountaineer who cares
> >deeply about the environment.
> >
> >Caring is as caring DOES. People who truly care reflect that in their
ACTIONS.
> >
> >> I think it is wrong to say that mountain
> >bikers are out to harm the environment.
> >
> >I never said it is INTENTIONAL! But it is still destructive.
> >
> >>Everyone that I ride with is very
> >conscious of leaving no trace when we are out and we frequently pick up after hikers that have
> >left wrappers, tissues, etc. on the trail.
> >
> >Good. So keep your bikes on pavement, and HIKE in nature.
> >
> >> As you know, getting outside and into the mountains is a very
> >fulfilling and uplifting experience that should not be off limits to
someone
> >just because they are on a bike.
> >
> >You are LYING. There isn't a single trail in the world closed to mountain bikers. It is only
> >BIKES that are banned. You CAN walk, can't you?
> >
> >> If we really want to address the issue of wildlife having no place
> >to live then we should start talking about the real source of the
problem;
> >overpopulation.
> >
> >I have a vasectomy and no kids. But that's not enough: the remaining
people can
> >still destroy the environment by their ACTIONS, so ACTIONS need to be
changed.
> >
> >> If people would quit having so many damn babies this world
> >would be a much better place and the balance could begin to be restored
but
> >no one seems to have the balls to stand up and say that.
> >
> >Actually, a lot of people are saying just that. But very few people have
the
> >balls to say that mountain biking should be banned, partly because
mountain
> >bikers ******** anyone who has the guts to speak out against their
selfish,
> >destructive sport.
> >
> >By the way, I have NEVER heard any mountain biker talk about the issue of overpopulation in their
> >newsgroup. You are just trying to change the
subject
> >away from the destruction that mountain biking does.
> >
> >> Peace,
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >===
> >I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> >help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> >
> >http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Carlos]

Lightweight wrote:
> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>At 06:37 PM 11/28/02 -0700, Gunther, Jeff wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike,
>>
>>I have a vasectomy and no kids.
>>
>
>
>
> Ahh, Natural Selection never fails. You qualify for a Darwin award now, all you gotta do is die in
> a stupid manner.
>
>

Mike, i love you, man.

 

[Guy Chapman]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:44:27 -0500, Ken B <[email protected]> wrote:

>The latest attempt at proof of environmental destruction is:
>http://www.santabarbarahikes.com/ComparisonTrails/damage.shtml. Nice try, but no luck there.

I have seen much more serious damage done by sheep and water on Welsh mountainsides. To say nothing
of the huge erosion caused by hikers, as you point out.

Ultimately, though, the fact that hikers and bikers use these areas is a major driver for
conservation work. Over here the National Parks Authority spends large sums of money protecting
wildlife habitats from the real threats - industrialisation and pollution - and the payback is that
we get to walk or ride into the areas to see the animals and plants. It's much better to find out
about nature by observation rather than by looking at pictures in a book.

In any case, Mikey-boy is completely missing the target. The numbers of species threatened by
small-scale (and it is small-scale) human access to North American wilderness is a spit in the
bucket compared with the danger posed by rain forest logging, commerical fishing, heavy metals
extraction and so on.

I think it's likely that those people who experience the natural environment by biking and walking
are likely to gain an appreciation of natural diversity and become more sympathetic to moves aimed
at restricting the destruction of the world's habitats, but I'm a known optimist.

Guy
===
Now available in both wedgie and bent flavours!

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