Do you feel any pain?

[Woogoogle]

"Per Elms?ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> An interesting topic appeared in a nearby climbing thread and I figured it could be worth it's
> own thread.
>
> Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?

> How do you experience lactic acid?
I must be in pretty bad shape cause I never feel a burn in my legs until after an hour or so of
riding at least. I go into oxygen debt first, and can't breathe enough any more.

 

[Bosaci]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> bosaci wrote:
> > "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news[email protected]... If you really want to experience pain, find a long
> > steep hill and attempt to climb it in a high gear while maintaining a fast cadence. If your
> > lungs/heart give out before your legs hurt then you may have a cardio/respiratory problem and
> > should probably see a doctor and get tested. Or it could mean that you need more
> > cardio/respiratory work.
>
> But this is exactly what started this thread. I don't feel any pain or
burn
> going up a long hill. Several others in the climbing thread say the same
and
> I figured it would be interesting to dig deeper into this. Actually I was very aware of this
> climbing hills today and at one point I thought I detected the beginning of a burning sensation.
> But *no* it faded away before it begun ;(
>
> I'm 52 today and there are many people that outclimb me in our club, but I also outclimb a lot of
> others. It was the same when I was 20 and I did definitely not have a cardio/respiratory problem
> then. Placing well in cross country running and obstacle courses for instance. So for me it has
> been the same whether I've been fit or not. Although I have plenty other signals and symptoms that
keep
> me from going and going and going. If I don't run out of breath my muscles will just get too heavy
> to move at a certain point.

That's pretty interesting!

I find it very difficult to get a burn on my legs anymore and I contribute that to being in very
good shape. But I am still able to get a slight momentarily burn by using a higher gear and
pushing harder.

What about deep knee bends or squats, can you get a burn in the quads by doing them or what is it
you do feel.

The only reason that I said that you may have a cardio/respiratory problem because I thought that
you were prematurally going anerobic before your legs could work hard enough to produce pain but
that doesn't seem to be the case.

Sounds like you are in really good shape, be happy, don't worry!

>
> --
> Perre
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Morgan Fletcher wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> writes:
>> But this is exactly what started this thread. I don't feel any pain or burn going up a long
>> hill. Several others in the climbing thread say the same and I figured it would be interesting
>> to dig deeper into this. Actually I was very aware of this climbing hills today and at one point
>> I thought I detected the beginning of a burning sensation. But *no* it faded away before it
>> begun ;(
>
> What happens if you shift to a higher gear and try to maintain the same cadence? And again one
> more gear? Raise your intensity until it's a very difficult choice to continue working at that
> level versus easing up. I think that's the "pain" people are talking about in this thread.
>
> It is - or seems - always humanly possible to go harder than you are going, at any given point in
> time, on a bike. What makes you choose to not go harder is "pain". "If my life depended on it, I
> could have been first up the hill, but it wasn't worth it to me today." The story goes that a
> soldier ran 26 miles to Athens from the battle of Marathon, delivered his message and then he
> died. I bet he felt pain during that run.
>
> I've been thinking about this thread a lot, the last few rides I've done. When I first read the
> thread I thought "Sure there's pain!". Then I did the rides with the intensities that cause me
> "pain" and it's not really pain but significant discomfort. In my memory it's pain, but when I'm
> on the bike it's just very uncomfortable. I can go harder, but my heart, lungs and legs provide
> lots of feedback that they are suffering, and it's this feedback that's uncomfortable. If I cross
> the line (anaerobic threshhold) where I'm going too hard for my legs to recover (lactic acid
> build-up) my legs will burn, but it's still not the same kind of pain as bodily harm. If I push it
> as hard as I can up the top of a steep climb that gets steeper at the top, I will be at the limit
> at the top, but it's discomfort, not pain.
>
> What's interesting to me is that the discomfort on the bike is pain only in my memory.
>
> The most "painful" rides I know of:
>
> 40k time trial intense climbs up long, steep hills (Mt. Diablo, the Death Ride passes) intervals
> anything with a bonk at the end
>
> If you're not feeling intense discomfort, ride harder.
>
> Morgan

Interesting feedback Morgan. Yes I will agree anyday that I feel an intense discomfort when working
at the limits. The pain is more of a mental thing. Sometimes it's a gut feeling. However the burn in
itself I do not experience even if I shift up to higher gears and mash it all the way up.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

bosaci wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> bosaci wrote:
>>> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news[email protected]... If you really want to experience pain, find a long
>>> steep hill and attempt to climb it in a high gear while maintaining a fast cadence. If your
>>> lungs/heart give out before your legs hurt then you may have a cardio/respiratory problem and
>>> should probably see a doctor and get tested. Or it could mean that you need more
>>> cardio/respiratory work.
>>
>> But this is exactly what started this thread. I don't feel any pain or burn going up a long
>> hill. Several others in the climbing thread say the same and I figured it would be interesting
>> to dig deeper into this. Actually I was very aware of this climbing hills today and at one point
>> I thought I detected the beginning of a burning sensation. But *no* it faded away before it
>> begun ;(
>>
>> I'm 52 today and there are many people that outclimb me in our club, but I also outclimb a lot of
>> others. It was the same when I was 20 and I did definitely not have a cardio/respiratory problem
>> then. Placing well in cross country running and obstacle courses for instance. So for me it has
>> been the same whether I've been fit or not. Although I have plenty other signals and symptoms
>> that keep me from going and going and going. If I don't run out of breath my muscles will just
>> get too heavy to move at a certain point.
>
> That's pretty interesting!
>
> I find it very difficult to get a burn on my legs anymore and I contribute that to being in very
> good shape. But I am still able to get a slight momentarily burn by using a higher gear and
> pushing harder.
>
> What about deep knee bends or squats, can you get a burn in the quads by doing them or what is it
> you do feel.
>
> The only reason that I said that you may have a cardio/respiratory problem because I thought that
> you were prematurally going anerobic before your legs could work hard enough to produce pain but
> that doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> Sounds like you are in really good shape, be happy, don't worry!
>

Hehe. I'm not worried in the least. However I do believe the pain or different degrees of pain could
help me pace myself better. As it is now I have to look for other signs of fatigue and if I go too
far I'll have a very hard time recovering. A HRM has been a great help for me.

I haven't had the chance to check these things in the Gym yet but I will. From what I remember my
muscles just kinda gets tired and quit moving. However I did feel some burn in my upper legs when
sitting against a wall as somebody suggested earlier in this thread.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Per Elmsater]

WooGoogle wrote:
> "Per Elms?ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> An interesting topic appeared in a nearby climbing thread and I figured it could be worth it's
>> own thread.
>>
>> Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?
>
>
>> How do you experience lactic acid?
> I must be in pretty bad shape cause I never feel a burn in my legs until after an hour or so of
> riding at least. I go into oxygen debt first, and can't breathe enough any more.

Could that just be that you are not properly warmed up yet.? If you compare yourself to others in
your neighborhood. Do you still think you are in bad shape?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[T. Field]

> At the risk of offending many physicians, whatever makes you think an MD would understand
> such stuff?
>
>>
> Andy Coggan

Granted not all physicians would understand this stuff, but those of us in this sport have a strong
interest in the physiology, and have no problem keeping up with you "lab"guys.

 

[Andy Coggan]

"T. Field" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > At the risk of offending many physicians, whatever makes you think an MD would understand such
> > stuff?
> >
> >>
> > Andy Coggan
>
> Granted not all physicians would understand this stuff, but those of us in this sport have a
> strong interest in the physiology, and have no problem keeping up with you "lab"guys.

No doubt - but the original poster apparently assumed that all physicians are not only knowledgable
about the physiology of exercise in normal individuals, but also in individuals with a rare
neuromuscular disease. Considering that any exercise physiology is rarely - if ever! - taught in
(U.S.) medical schools, that's clearly an incorrect assumption.

Andy Coggan

 

[Woogoogle]

"Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> WooGoogle wrote:
> > "Per Elms?ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> An interesting topic appeared in a nearby climbing thread and I figured it could be worth it's
> >> own thread.
> >>
> >> Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?
> >
> >
> >> How do you experience lactic acid?
> > I must be in pretty bad shape cause I never feel a burn in my legs until after an hour or so of
> > riding at least. I go into oxygen debt first, and can't breathe enough any more.
>
> Could that just be that you are not properly warmed up yet.? If you compare yourself to others in
> your neighborhood. Do you still think you are in bad shape?

Did a race yesterday and got dropped like a rock on the end of the first climb ( about 1200 feet in
a couple of miles ), couldn't breathe enough. Caught some of em on the downhill/rollers to the start
of the 2nd lap, then my legs started to hurt. Weigh about 160 pounds( about 10 overweight). At
the track, I can hang with the B riders in our scratch races, but the combined A/B races couldn't
hang for more than half of the ones I tried last year, run out of breath, not leg burn.

 

[Matthew David H]

Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:
>Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?
>
>
> I've never felt any and have been wondering what others meant. I always thought it was some kind
> of symbolic pain they talked about. Then lately I've read that well trained pro bicyclists don't
> feel any pain but amateurs do.

"Cycling is so hard, the suffering is so intense, that it's absolutely cleansing," he wrote in his
autobiography. "The pain is so deep and strong that a curtain descends over your brain.... Once,
someone asked me what pleasure I took in riding for so long. 'Pleasure?' I said. 'I don't understand
the question.' I didn't do it for pleasure. I did it for pain."

-M

 

[Mike S.]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> An interesting topic appeared in a nearby climbing thread and I figured it could be worth it's
> own thread.
>
> Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?
>
> I've never felt any and have been wondering what others meant. I always thought it was some kind
> of symbolic pain they talked about. Then lately I've read that well trained pro bicyclists don't
> feel any pain but
amateurs
> do.
>
> Well I'm not a pro and I'm 52 and still don't feel any pain. I'm in fairly good shape now but a
> year ago I wasn't and there was no pain then either.
My
> muscles just get heavy and I have to use more and more willpower to keep going. If I continue I
> will go into a deep oxygen debt until I reach a
point
> where I cannot breathe anymore. It's not that I can't inhale. It's more
like
> I can't exhale so there is no sense in inhaling since my lungs are full of waste instead of empty.
> Sometimes I can feel pain in my windpipes at this point.
>
> If I've gone too far into oxygen debt I can barely move forward until I've caught up with my
> breathing again. It is definitely like slamming into a wall, especially since there is no real
> warning except my laboured breathing.
>
> How do you experience lactic acid?
>
I trained at the track this AM. Doing the training almost always seems to be a lack of strength
that's limiting my performance v. lactic acid burn. Sometimes I get to the point where I just cannot
go as fast as I want because my legs just won't turn over the gear. When I'm racing on Tuesday
nights, it always seems to be a matter of lactic acid burn causing me to drop OTB rather than a leg
strength thing.

I haven't quite figured this one out. All I can think is that the accelerations are much more
violent, last longer going at speed, and much more frequent when racing v. training.

Mike

So,

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Mike S. wrote:
> I haven't quite figured this one out. All I can think is that the accelerations are much more
> violent, last longer going at speed, and much more frequent when racing v. training.
>
> Mike
>
> So,

Are you running out of breath under any of these circimstances?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

WooGoogle wrote:
> "Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> WooGoogle wrote:
>>> "Per Elms?ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>>> An interesting topic appeared in a nearby climbing thread and I figured it could be worth it's
>>>> own thread.
>>>>
>>>> Do you feel any pain and where do you feel it?
>>>
>>>
>>>> How do you experience lactic acid?
>>> I must be in pretty bad shape cause I never feel a burn in my legs until after an hour or so of
>>> riding at least. I go into oxygen debt first, and can't breathe enough any more.
>>
>> Could that just be that you are not properly warmed up yet.? If you compare yourself to others in
>> your neighborhood. Do you still think you are in bad shape?
>
> Did a race yesterday and got dropped like a rock on the end of the first climb ( about 1200 feet
> in a couple of miles ), couldn't breathe enough. Caught some of em on the downhill/rollers to the
> start of the 2nd lap, then my legs started to hurt. Weigh about 160 pounds( about 10
> overweight). At the track, I can hang with the B riders in our scratch races, but the combined
> A/B races couldn't hang for more than half of the ones I tried last year, run out of breath, not
> leg burn.

You sound to me like you're in pretty good shape. Just happen to be riding with people that are in
even better shape.

But it is interesting what you say. I am definitely goint to do some extensive testing and try out
all the different situations some of you have described.

Actually I tried it yesterday, but that happened to be one of those days when I never ran out of
breath nor muscles. I was in the finishing sprint on every one of our speed runs that we have
interspersed on our distance ride. I was checking my muscles as I was reaching my max pulse on a
hillsprint and there was neither pain nor fatigue nor shortness of breath. I was so surprised I
almost forgot to pass the peple still straining in front of me. Oh well, that's what I get for
riding all winter ))

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Mike S.]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike S. wrote:
> > I haven't quite figured this one out. All I can think is that the accelerations are much more
> > violent, last longer going at speed, and much more frequent when racing v. training.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > So,
>
> Are you running out of breath under any of these circimstances?
> --
> Perre

Not particularly, my legs scream a lot louder than my breathing more often than not.

Mike