Do you guys commute in the winter?



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jacques wrote:
> I am puzzled by all you guys needing these 200 MW lights with a portable nuclear power plant for
> supply. I use a good hub dynamo (SON), which supposedly delivers 3 W or slightly more, powering a
> B&M Oval front light and a powerful single diode rear light. Riding in pitch dark I have no
> problem seing the (paved) road at speeds from 5 to 25 mph, at least as long as it is relatively
> straight. I admit I have to slow down a bit in curves as the light beam is rather narrow. It is a
> relatively expensive toy, but for daily usage it is an absolutely "no hassle" solution, no
> batteries to recharge, no noise, very little drag, always ready... and in full accordance with the
> principle of bicycle, which is basically "use your own power".

I agree completely, although I haven't made anything near the investment you've made. I use an
ancient Soubitez bottom-bracket generator. I can't even recall what I paid for it, but I think it
was under $20. It works great.

The most important aspect for me is the "no hassle" part. The bike is _always_ ready to ride,
day or night.

And of course, it can't be beat on a long tour.

--
Frank Krygowski
 
Yep, I've been commuting again since summer and only missed a day or two.

Now that's its dark and colder, I'm glad for my lights setup: old Sanyo bottom bracket generator,
new BiSy headlamp, small rear light that uses the rack bolt down low. Also 2 flashies that mount
easy on my panniers, a front flashie (what's that new 3 LED one) front and rear reflectors. Just put
on fenders on my Gunnar Sport, with 32 c Panaracer tires. Good size for my urban commute.

I was at the mega Sporting goods store to get a couple more coolmax type t-shirts and saw gloves on
the sale table, got a great pair of goretex gloves that ought to keep me plenty warm.

Plastic bags help greatly in two areas: Helmet - I cut out a freezer style baggie to fit inside my
helmet, cut out small holes for the velcro attachments for the pads, and use it to cover the main
vents. Shoes - lightweight no zip baggies, the fold over type, fit perfect over my wool socks and
give me great wind protection without noticing them at all.

I use several bandanas, one under the helmet (if its cold I use a polypro baclava on my head) and
the other at my neck. That one makes a great difference, too. Jacket is just a windproof vest, open
mesh back. Its gotta be really cold for me to wear much more outer layer.

Supposed to be down in the teens in the morning, we'll see how it goes.

jm
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Ryan Cousineau
> <[email protected]> writes:

> > and my Christmas list will definitely include an off-road-worthy 10-15W lighting setup
>
> One of BLT's offerings? Those are very good systems in that category of lighting systems. I used
> to have their Dual Spectrum, and was quite happy with it, right up to the day I had to sell it
> (and the bike it was on) to make my rent.

One of the makers I'm considering, for sure. It's just that I'm tired of being constrained by the
lack of light when I ride, and Queen's Park is pretty dark these days.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
In article <[email protected]>, jacques <[email protected]> wrote:

> I am puzzled by all you guys needing these 200 MW lights with a portable nuclear power plant for
> supply. I use a good hub dynamo (SON), which supposedly delivers 3 W or slightly more, powering a
> B&M Oval front light and a powerful single diode rear light. Riding in pitch dark I have no
> problem seing the (paved) road at speeds from 5 to 25 mph, at least as long as it is relatively
> straight. I admit I have to slow down a bit in curves as the light beam is rather narrow. It is a
> relatively expensive toy, but for daily usage it is an absolutely "no hassle" solution, no
> batteries to recharge, no noise, very little drag, always ready... and in full accordance with the
> principle of bicycle, which is basically "use your own power".
>
> Jacques

I used to have those nuclear power plant lights -- NightHawk Pros with a big water bottle battery.
But when the battery died, I decided to deal no more with it. Instead, I bought a Sanden TAK1NSK rim
light generator from bikelite.com. It works great and gives me good illumination exactly like the
SON with a Lumintec light (??spelled right??), but with a litte bit more drag. I supplement that
with a Cateye HL-500II micro halogen for those dark to see alleys. Otherwise, it was a cheap
alternative to big honking lights and a lot lighter shall I say on my bike and on my pocket book!!
 
Yup, I commute just about everyday, rain, sleet, snow, fog, etc. , except when I have a big load to carry. Leave around 7:15am and get home at 5pm. I don't need a lighting setup because it's light enough to and from work (only 9 miles R/T).

With that kind of distance, and in pitch black, you should probably invest in a Nite Rider or similar lighting system. Hope you have some relatively safe biking routes.
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message:

> While I too have commuted successfully with a narrow 3w lamp, the difference between that and the
> more powerful lights is primarily in the visibility of the cyclist to others. I do also like the
> illumination to the side (good to know if a dog/child/stealt biker is coming).

Being seen is the key. A 3W generator is enough to see the pavement especially if you're going slow
and are familiar with the route. A 6W generator is better since with a 5W headlight you're starting
to approach a reasonable level of illumination. "Pitch black" is actually a better time to use
generator lights than in-town since in-town you're competing with a ambient light for attention.

Generator light sets, other than the el-cheapo junk from Taiwan and China are not cheap. Look at the
prices over at Peter White Cycles. The 6W generator is nearly $250, the 3W nearly $120! Then you
have to buy the actual lights which add another $120 or so for the 12 volt lights (used with the 6W
generator). A built in hub dynamo is great, but few bicycles have them (see http://commutebike.com).
I have a good bottom bracked dynamo made by Sanyo, but these are no longer sold as far as I know.

Contrast the cost of a generator set up with that of a battery powered light system. For less than
$40 I can buy a 12V 4AH battery, a 14W sealed beam headlamp, a charger, and a very bright xenon
strobe tail lamp. Adding the bit of hardware and connectors adds another $10 or so. So for $50 I can
have a much better battery powered system than a $370 generator set-up.

Yes, a battery powered system is more trouble than a generator powered system, but there is a big
difference in illumination. Even with a generator system you'll want to add a good rear light such
as the Real Lite LED strobe ($40) or a Lightman Xenon strobe ($25). Most el-cheapo LED strobes do
not provide sufficient visibility to vehicles except in pitch black conditions.

Probably the next bike I buy will be a commute bike with an integral generator front hub. But even
if I forego a bright headlight on occasion and use the built in light, I'll still use a good rear
light. But don't underestimate the value of good front lights in terms of being seen. Vehicles will
yield as they should when they see what appears to be motorcycle lights coming toward them, but will
ignore low power bicycle lights, even if the bicycle is moving at a high rate of speed.

I often question why people feel the need to exaggerate the power source and brightness of higher
power bicycle lights. There are no 200 MW lights, no stadium lights, and no nuclear reactor power
sources. There are 5W-25W lights and sealed lead acid or NiMH batteries.

The experts agree that good lights increase your margin of safety.

Steve http://bicyclelighting.com http://commutebike.com http://bicyclecoffeesystems.com
 
Steven Scharf wrote:
>
> Generator light sets, other than the el-cheapo junk from Taiwan and China are not cheap. Look at
> the prices over at Peter White Cycles. The 6W generator is nearly $250, the 3W nearly $120! Then
> you have to buy the actual lights which add another $120 or so for the 12 volt lights (used with
> the 6W generator).

$120 is a high end generator. It's not representative of the average. Altenately, you could look
at the Union/Marwi generator at Loose Screws, http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=A-
ccessories&sc=Generator&tc=&item_id=UF-23009&id=152840116704 which sells for less than $35, and
is probably one of the most common designs in the world. No, it's not "el-cheapo junk from Taiwan
and China."

Naturally, there are best-in-the-world contenders selling for hundreds of dollars. There are also
inexpensive ones for those who don't need the very best. This is true whether you're talking about
battery lights or generators. In my experience, even very inexpensive generators do very well,
provided you're sure to use a halogen bulb instead of a vacuum bulb.

For a description of a range of generators, see http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html

The ones mentioned in that article cover quite a range of prices.

> Yes, a battery powered system is more trouble than a generator powered system, but there is a
> big difference in illumination. Even with a generator system you'll want to add a good rear
> light such as the Real Lite LED strobe ($40) or a Lightman Xenon strobe ($25).

Steve's got his opinions about rear strobes, which are unusual, to say the least. Many millions of
generator-using cyclists disagree, and use common bicycle equipment with perfect satisfaction.

I imagine this disagreement will persist for quite a while.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]
 
3 Dec 2003 22:21:44 -0800,
<[email protected]>, [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote:

>So for $50 I can have a much better battery powered system than a $370 generator set-up.

You've got a desklamp cobbled to the front of a Plug and Play Bike.

Fifty bucks gets you a hand built front wheel too?
--
zk
 
[email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message:
>
> > While I too have commuted successfully with a narrow 3w lamp, the difference between that and
> > the more powerful lights is primarily in the visibility of the cyclist to others. I do also like
> > the illumination to the side (good to know if a dog/child/stealt biker is coming).
>
> Being seen is the key. A 3W generator is enough to see the pavement especially if you're going
> slow and are familiar with the route. .... "Pitch black" is actually a better time to use
> generator lights than in-town since in-town you're competing with a ambient light for attention.
>
> Generator light sets, other than the el-cheapo junk from Taiwan and China are not cheap. Look at
> the prices over at Peter White Cycles. ....

I'm a happy user of dynohubs and got good service from Peter White, but I add this:

COST (from Peter White Cycle's web page) The Bauch and Laumb bottle generators are very good
alternatives. With the cheapest one, generator plus headlight could cost about $50. With the better
one, that's $100-125. For all-weather cycling, the dynohub is a good luxury. In that department, the
Shimano Nexus NX-30 is available at $55. Add $40-50 for a switched headlight or for a switch and
headlight, and you get a system for a little over $100. There is a catch: you either have to buy
spokes ($20) and build your wheel or ask Peter White (or your local builder) to build the wheel.

VISIBILITY FROM OTHERS Being visible from others is important. In urban environment, this is indeed
the main use for bicycle lighting. Once people look at you, the brightness of the spot is important;
however, the _size_ of the light source is even more important if you want people to find you. On
that regard, the 75-85 mm diametre of the Lumotec and Bisi headlights catch more the attention than
a tiny MR-11 headlight. Headlights with a "flashing" option are still better attention-grabbers,
however. Likewise, lamps with a large source and a bluish colour -- such as the EL-200, 300 or 400
are also very good attention-grabbers.

VISIBILITY OF THE ROAD The success of a good generator headlight is that the headlight uses good
optics, as opposed to shear power. This is why a 3 W Lumotec is as effective for on-street lighting
than an 8 W MR-11 spot (approx.: IOW, a 10 W spot is slightly brighter). A better solution -- from
the point of view of autonomy -- would be a battery headlight using a 5 W or 10 W _bulb_ housed in a
reflector similar to the Lumotec.

MR-11 spots have obviously a great advantage for off-road cycling.

AUTONOMY Try to find a battery-based headlight that is good for a 5- or 6-hour trip at -10 C and
doesn't weight a ton.
 
[email protected] (Fritz M) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote:
>
> > though a better option is one of the Lightman bicycle Xenon strobes, also designed for bicycles:
>
> My newest toy is an amber Lightman xenon strobe. When I received it I immediately turned it on and
> was stunned by its brightness.
>
> I did a conspicuity test Friday night. I have two Vistalite "Super Nebula" 5 LED lights mounted
> side by side on the back of my rear rack,
> . . . From very close up (i.e. less than 6 feet away and outside of my vehicle), the xenon is
> almost blindingly bright compared to the red LEDs. As I moved further from the back of the
> bike, however, the difference became much less apparent. I don't know if it's the inverse cube
> law kicking in or what, but the LEDs seemed in my subjective judgement to be just as attention
> getting as the strobe, especially from several car lengths away.

I did a similar test on my bike with similar results. I found that 2 Lightman strobes about
perceptually equal to one red LED blinky light set on "fast strobe".

My red LED was a basic "Bell" 5-led red rear light (the older model--you can't seem to buy these
any more).

The strobe was a bit brighter to the side, but it was surprisingly small.

It took two Lightman strobes to equal one LED light because the strobes have such a long cycle. The
blinky light is going about 4x per second while each strobe goes about 1x or 2x per second (and
slows as the batteries die).

Although the strobe is very bright, I think the reason it is perceptually not any better than the
blinky light is because the strobe lasts a very, very short time--it is practically instantaneous--
whereas the LED lights are half the time on and half the time off. At some point, dimmer and longer-
lasting perceptually equals brighter but shorter. Also, of course, the strobe is illuminating, very
brightly, a lot of directions that don't really help (up, down, etc.).

Like you, I believe the strobes certainly have their uses. But I was hoping they would be way, way
better than the red LED blinkies, and they're not (in most circumstances). That, plus a many times
shorter runtime than LED blinkies, means that I use my strobes very very seldom.

Another consideration is that the period is so slow on the strobes that they are quite unsuitable as
the only rear light.

It's worth remarking that LEDs are VERY sensitive to aiming (you can't just stick one in your
waistband and expect it to be very effective--it's really got to be aligned with some precision).

And LED lights last a l-o-n-g time on a pair of alkaline batteries but they gradually get dimmer and
dimmer until finally they're quite worthless. (I run mine on NIMH rechargeables and one advantage of
rechargeables is that you get full brightness for most of the battery life and then a relatively sudden--
and thus noticeable--fade to black. I also run 3 or 4 blinkies on the back, plus reflectors, so if
one blinky dies it's no big deal.)

Running LED blinkies on the same set of batteries for months & months & months & months without ever
changing the batteries is one reason they have a bad name.

Also beware that your batteries recover somewhat while the light is off. So when you turn the light
on again, the batteries can look good as new for the first 5 minutes and then be quite pathetic from
then on. Being a rear light, you may only look at the light when you first turn it on, and so you
don't notice how pathetic it really is after the first 5 minutes.

The most typical night cyclist I see is the "ninja" who is completely black and just blends into the
night. The second most typical is the "cheapskate" who is trusting his/her life to a blinky light
run by a pair of 3.5-year-old batteries because the thing still makes a somewhat perceptible glow
when held within 6 inches of the human eye in a completely darkened room in a subterranean cavern on
a moonless night.

Change those batteries!

--Brent bhugh [at] mwsc.edu
 
[email protected] (Fritz M) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote:
>
> > though a better option is one of the Lightman bicycle Xenon strobes, also designed for bicycles:
>
> My newest toy is an amber Lightman xenon strobe. When I received it I immediately turned it on and
> was stunned by its brightness.
>
> I did a conspicuity test Friday night. I have two Vistalite "Super Nebula" 5 LED lights mounted
> side by side on the back of my rear rack,
> . . . From very close up (i.e. less than 6 feet away and outside of my vehicle), the xenon is
> almost blindingly bright compared to the red LEDs. As I moved further from the back of the
> bike, however, the difference became much less apparent. I don't know if it's the inverse cube
> law kicking in or what, but the LEDs seemed in my subjective judgement to be just as attention
> getting as the strobe, especially from several car lengths away.

I did a similar test on my bike with similar results. I found that 2 Lightman strobes about
perceptually equal to one red LED blinky light set on "fast strobe".

My red LED was a basic "Bell" 5-led red rear light (the older model--you can't seem to buy these
any more).

The strobe was a bit brighter to the side, but it was surprisingly small.

It took two Lightman strobes to equal one LED light because the strobes have such a long cycle. The
blinky light is going about 4x per second while each strobe goes about 1x or 2x per second (and
slows as the batteries die).

Although the strobe is very bright, I think the reason it is perceptually not any better than the
blinky light is because the strobe lasts a very, very short time--it is practically instantaneous--
whereas the LED lights are half the time on and half the time off. At some point, dimmer and longer-
lasting perceptually equals brighter but shorter. Also, of course, the strobe is illuminating, very
brightly, a lot of directions that don't really help (up, down, etc.).

Like you, I believe the strobes certainly have their uses. But I was hoping they would be way, way
better than the red LED blinkies, and they're not (in most circumstances). That, plus a many times
shorter runtime than LED blinkies, means that I use my strobes very very seldom.

Another consideration is that the period is so slow on the strobes that they are quite unsuitable as
the only rear light.

It's worth remarking that LEDs are VERY sensitive to aiming (you can't just stick one in your
waistband and expect it to be very effective--it's really got to be aligned with some precision).

And LED lights last a l-o-n-g time on a pair of alkaline batteries but they gradually get dimmer and
dimmer until finally they're quite worthless. (I run mine on NIMH rechargeables and one advantage of
rechargeables is that you get full brightness for most of the battery life and then a relatively sudden--
and thus noticeable--fade to black. I also run 3 or 4 blinkies on the back, plus reflectors, so if
one blinky dies it's no big deal.)

Running LED blinkies on the same set of batteries for months & months & months & months without ever
changing the batteries is one reason they have a bad name.

Also beware that your batteries recover somewhat while the light is off. So when you turn the light
on again, the batteries can look good as new for the first 5 minutes and then be quite pathetic from
then on. Being a rear light, you may only look at the light when you first turn it on, and so you
don't notice how pathetic it really is after the first 5 minutes.

The most typical night cyclist I see is the "ninja" who is completely black and just blends into the
night. The second most typical is the "cheapskate" who is trusting his/her life to a blinky light
run by a pair of 3.5-year-old batteries because the thing still makes a somewhat perceptible glow
when held within 6 inches of the human eye in a completely darkened room in a subterranean cavern on
a moonless night.

Change those batteries!

--Brent bhugh [at] mwsc.edu
 
[email protected] (Fritz M) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote:
> > though a better option is one of the Lightman bicycle Xenon strobes, also designed for bicycles:
> My newest toy is an amber Lightman xenon strobe. When I received it I immediately turned it on and
> was stunned by its brightness.
>
> I did a conspicuity test Friday night. I have two Vistalite "Super Nebula" 5 LED lights mounted
> side by side on the back of my rear rack,
> . . . From very close up (i.e. less than 6 feet away and outside of my vehicle), the xenon is
> almost blindingly bright compared to the red LEDs. As I moved further from the back of the
> bike, however, the difference became much less apparent. I don't know if it's the inverse cube
> law kicking in or what, but the LEDs seemed in my subjective judgement to be just as attention
> getting as the strobe, especially from several car lengths away. . . .

I did a similar test on my bike with similar results. I found that 2 Lightman strobes about
perceptually equal to one red LED blinky light set on "fast strobe".

My red LED was a basic "Bell" 5-led red rear light (the older model--you can't seem to buy these
any more).

The strobe was a bit brighter to the side, but it was surprisingly small.

It took two Lightman strobes to equal one LED light because the strobes have such a long cycle. The
blinky light is going about 4x per second while each strobe goes about 1x or 2x per second (and
slows as the batteries die).

Although the strobe is very bright, I think the reason it is perceptually not any better than the
blinky light is because the strobe lasts a very, very short time--it is practically instantaneous--
whereas the LED lights are half the time on and half the time off. At some point, dimmer and longer-
lasting perceptually equals brighter but shorter. Also, of course, the strobe is illuminating, very
brightly, a lot of directions that don't really help (up, down, etc.).

Like you, I believe the strobes certainly have their uses. But I was hoping they would be way, way
better than the red LED blinkies, and they're not (in most circumstances). That, plus a many times
shorter battery runtime than LED blinkies, means that I use my strobes very very seldom.

Another consideration is that the period is so slow on the strobes that they are quite unsuitable as
the only rear light (there is a l-o-n-g time between flashes, especially after an hour or so on a
pair of batteries).

It's worth remarking that LEDs are VERY sensitive to aiming (you can't just stick one in your
waistband and expect it to be very effective--it's really got to be aligned with some precision).

And LED lights last a l-o-n-g time on a pair of alkaline batteries but they gradually get dimmer and
dimmer until finally they're quite worthless. (I run mine on NIMH rechargeables and one advantage of
rechargeables is that you get full brightness for most of the battery life and then a relatively sudden--
and thus noticeable--fade to black. I also run 3 or 4 blinkies on the back, plus reflectors, so if
one blinky dies it's no big deal.)

Running LED blinkies on the same set of batteries for months & months & months & months without ever
changing the batteries is one reason they have a bad name.

Also beware that your batteries recover somewhat while the light is off. So when you turn the light
on again, the batteries can look good as new for the first 5 minutes and then be quite pathetic from
then on. Being a rear light, you may only look at the light when you first turn it on, and so you
don't notice how pathetic it really is after the first 5 minutes.

The most typical night cyclist I see is the "ninja" who is completely black and just blends into the
night. The second most typical is the "cheapskate" who is trusting his/her life to a blinky light
run by a pair of 3.5-year-old batteries because the thing still makes a somewhat perceptible glow
when held within 6 inches of the human eye in a completely darkened room in a subterranean cavern on
a moonless night.

Change those batteries!

--Brent bhugh [at] mwsc.edu
 
[email protected] (Brent Hugh) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Fritz M) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote:
> > > though a better option is one of the Lightman bicycle Xenon strobes, also designed for
> > > bicycles:
> > My newest toy is an amber Lightman xenon strobe. When I received it I immediately turned it on
> > and was stunned by its brightness.
> >
> > I did a conspicuity test Friday night. I have two Vistalite "Super Nebula" 5 LED lights mounted
> > side by side on the back of my rear rack,
> > . . . From very close up (i.e. less than 6 feet away and outside of my vehicle), the xenon is
> > almost blindingly bright compared to the red LEDs. As I moved further from the back of the
> > bike, however, the difference became much less apparent. I don't know if it's the inverse
> > cube law kicking in or what, but the LEDs seemed in my subjective judgement to be just as
> > attention getting as the strobe, especially from several car lengths away. . . .
>
> I did a similar test on my bike with similar results. I found that 2 Lightman strobes about
> perceptually equal to one red LED blinky light set on "fast strobe".
>
> My red LED was a basic "Bell" 5-led red rear light (the older model--you can't seem to buy these
> any more).
>
> The strobe was a bit brighter to the side, but it was surprisingly small.

Why don't they mount strobes vertically? That way they should produce more light to the sides
instead of up-down.

> Another consideration is that the period is so slow on the strobes that they are quite unsuitable
> as the only rear light (there is a l-o-n-g time between flashes, especially after an hour or so on
> a pair of batteries).

Yes this gets very un/noticeable ;) making it difficult to see where the bike is headed.

Doug Toronto
 
"Brent Hugh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The most typical night cyclist I see is the "ninja" who is completely black and just blends into
> the night. The second most typical is the "cheapskate" who is trusting his/her life to a blinky
> light run by a pair of 3.5-year-old batteries because the thing still makes a somewhat perceptible
> glow when held within 6 inches of the human eye in a completely darkened room in a subterranean
> cavern on a moonless night.

I see a lot of this too. But cut these people a little slack. First, the "ninja" phenomena. This is
cultural to begin with in many communities -- men wear black or dark colors only, plus, people in
big cities and/or tough neighborhoods don't like to stand out. Second, many people can't afford, or
have no idea where to buy, a good light. They don't read Bicycling or rec.bicycles, where they'd
learn they should have a Cateye Micro or whatever. So they buy whatever POS is on the shelves at
their crappy LBS or Wal-Mart. They have to squeeze every volt out of their batteries too. Most of
the "ninjas" I saw in my old neighborhood looked like min. wage restaurant workers on their way
home, usually headed toward the tougher parts of town.

Education is key. For awhile, our local police were handing out light sets with a handlebar light
and a rear blinkie, the same way they hand out baby seats for cars. In the process, they can give a
little talk about being visible at night. At about $20 and five minutes per rider, this was probably
a good public safety investment.

Matt O.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Michel
Gagnon <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message:
> >
> > > While I too have commuted successfully with a narrow 3w lamp, the difference between that and
> > > the more powerful lights is primarily in the visibility of the cyclist to others. I do also
> > > like the illumination to the side (good to know if a dog/child/stealt biker is coming).
> >
> > Being seen is the key. A 3W generator is enough to see the pavement especially if you're going
> > slow and are familiar with the route. .... "Pitch black" is actually a better time to use
> > generator lights than in-town since in-town you're competing with a ambient light for attention.
> >
> > Generator light sets, other than the el-cheapo junk from Taiwan and China are not cheap. Look at
> > the prices over at Peter White Cycles.

What about generator light sets made in Japan?? These are not el-cheapo junk. In fact, they are very
reliable and millions of Japanese ride them. Sanden and Sanyo are the 2 I know of. In fact, I own a
Sanden TAK1NSK 3W 6V generator light that puts out just as much light as the $370 SON Dyno. There's
a little bit more resistance than the SON, so I figure I loose an effective speed of just 1km/h.
I've done research and comparison with my friends' SON dyno by switching his wheel (700c) to my
touring bike. The price difference of $39.95 US to $370 is not worth the cost just for commuting
only. I only see the advantage of the SON for randos who must ride more than 100km/h at night and
need less resistance from the hub. I've done weeks of touring with these light and it had saved me
many times navigating to the campsite at night.

I got the light from www.bikelite.com. The guy who sells the lights is very knowledgable.
 
Brent Hugh wrote:

... a good post.

It's been noted before that a strobe's short "on" time can make it difficult to fix its position. I
can't verify that first hand with bicycles, since I've never seen a cyclist use a strobe; but I've
noted it on other strobes, those marking certain towers. I perceive a light out of the corner of my
eye, but it's gone when I look for it. Then it's on again when I look away, and it can take a couple
seconds to sort out.

Some have mistakenly attributed the same effect to LED blinkies, but I've seen hundreds of those on
bikes and never had the same problem. Seems obvious to me that the uncertainty in position is a
function of the "on" vs. "off" time, as well as the cycle frequency.

Another disadvantage I've read about with strobes is that they would blind any other cylcist you'd
be riding with.

Remarks about directionality of LED blinkies, and about batteries sneakily dying, are good advice.

I'd add: don't rely only on these light sources. Of course, you absolutely need a headlight. But
reflectors and reflective tape are very conspicuous if done right, and have practically infinite
battery life.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]
 
Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:17:15 GMT,
<101220031517146668%[email protected]>, David
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I've done research and comparison with my friends' SON dyno by switching his wheel (700c) to my
> touring bike. The price difference of $39.95 US to $370 is not worth the cost just for commuting
> only. I only see the advantage of the SON for randos who must ride more than 100km/h at night and
> need less resistance from the hub.

Bottle generators do an excellent job of providing a reliable light source under most conditions.
IMO, for commuting and touring they're a simpler solution and better value than any battery lamp.

Their drawback being slippage when it's wet and thereby becoming somewhat less reliable. Living on
the wet coast, this matters to me.

The Shimano Nexus is a less expensive alternative to the SON though it's twice the cost of your
Sanden. It could be a reasonable compromise on a commuter or city bike.

I like the fact that it's quiet and doesn't slip.
--
zk
 
David wrote:

>What about generator light sets made in Japan?? These are not el-cheapo junk. In fact, they are
>very reliable and millions of Japanese ride them. Sanden and Sanyo are the 2 I know of. In fact, I
>own a Sanden TAK1NSK 3W 6V generator light that puts out just as much light as the $370 SON Dyno.
>There's a little bit more resistance than the SON, so I figure I loose an effective speed of just
>1km/h. I've done research and comparison with my friends' SON dyno by switching his wheel (700c) to
>my touring bike. The price difference of $39.95 US to $370 is not worth the cost just for commuting
>only. I only see the advantage of the SON for randos who must ride more than 100km/h at night and
>need less resistance from the hub. I've done weeks of touring with these light and it had saved me
>many times navigating to the campsite at night.
>
>I got the light from www.bikelite.com. The guy who sells the lights is very knowledgable.
>
I want one of these. Does anyone in Canada, especially British Columbia sell them? Bernie
 
"Doug Purdy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Why don't they mount strobes vertically? That way they should produce more light to the sides
> instead of up-down.

Another option would be a strobe mounted on top of a whip antenna much like the safety flags some
people put on kids bikes and trailers. Whip-mounted strobes are commonly used on dune-buggies for
nighttime sand dune fun! The high mounting position would keep it from blinding fellow riders, but
would make for a very unusual sight for drivers, thus commanding their attention. The legalities and
the "fredliness" that would certainly be associated with such a setup is up for debate.

-Buck
 
In article <[email protected]>, frkrygow
<"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote:

> Brent Hugh wrote:
>
> ... a good post.
>
> It's been noted before that a strobe's short "on" time can make it difficult to fix its position.
> I can't verify that first hand with bicycles, since I've never seen a cyclist use a strobe; but
> I've noted it on other strobes, those marking certain towers. I perceive a light out of the corner
> of my eye, but it's gone when I look for it. Then it's on again when I look away, and it can take
> a couple seconds to sort out.

I have used a marine strobe on my bicycle before with very good results only in the most severe
weather conditions. It has saved my life a couple times for sure. We sometimes have heavy fog here
in Vancouver and I was once caught in a snow blizzard (in 1999) that the strobe was very effective
in doing its job.

I don't use the strobe on a nice clear night. It just sucks too much battery juice to be worth a
recharge every night. LED blinkers, on the hand, are more cost effective..

David.
 
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