Do you guys commute in the winter?

[Frkrygow]

Jens Kr. Kirkebø wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:11:41 -0500, "frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Last night, I drove my (wife's) new car, which I'm still unfamiliar with. When I turned on the
>>headlights in a parking lot while facing a wall, I was struck by the good optics. There was a very
>>definite horizontal line with bright light below, and much dimmer illumination above. Obviously,
>>the idea is to light the road and not blind others, while "wasting" less light.
>>
>>All vehicle lights do this to some extent, although some are better than others.
>>
>>Scratch that. All vehicle lights do that to some extent, _except_ expensive, high-powered bicycle
>>lights. Go figure!
>
>
> I don't see much of a problem, but then again I don't have experience with many different
> lights. The Niterider HID has a very defined cone of light with much less light outside of that.
> I just point it so the top of the cone hits the road 40-50 feet before me. Noone but dogs get
> blinded from this. If I need to aim it higher or lower for some reason I can adjust it with my
> hand in 1 second.

I've got an old Vistalight 400 series headlight that has adjustable focus. It puts out a crisply
focused cone of light that can be adjusted for width. But it would be better, I think, if it spread
in a well-controlled rectangle, to better fit a road's lane. Again, this is what all well-designed
vehicle lights do.

But still, the Vista is much better than even the "spot" beams based on MR-11 or MR-16 bulbs. I find
that those waste considerable light.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

 

[Frkrygow]

Rick Onanian wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:27:07 -0500, "frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote:
>
> Do any existing battery lights offer "soft-start" advantages? Would it be easy for a soldering-
> capable person to retrofit?

Some of the big-buck digital systems provide soft start, along with their other tricks. But the
impression I have is that their reliability hasn't been very good.

Two simpler approaches occur to me. One possibility is to locate a thermistor of proper spec.
These have more resistance when cold, less when hot, so they would dampen that initial surge if
simply wired in series with the switch and bulb. "Hot" resistance isn't zero, though, so there'd
be some losses.

Another possibility might be a simple rheostat in place of the switch. You'd crank the light up to
full brighness in, say, a second or two. Offhand, I don't see why that wouldn't do the job.

It might be a little difficult to prove it did any good, though. Bulb life is a statistical thing,
subject to variation no matter what you do. And bulbs don't burn out rapidly enough for any one
consumer to get a good feeling for life comparisons.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

 

[Frkrygow]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> "frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>>So it occurs to me that generator bulbs can probably be specified for more voltage than if they
>>were used in a battery system.
>
>
> ...or to run hotter, if that's what you mean.

Yep. That's what I meant.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

 

[David]

> wheel driven type,. When I got back into regular biking a few years ago I expected to have a
> choice of generator light systems. \ It was a surprise to find only 'suspect by their cheapness'
> systems at Canadian Tire, and nothing else. These Japanese commuter bike lights make sense, aside
> from the RIGHT fork mount. Still I am committed. Will post a report. Bernie
>

The problem with generator systems is their uncoolness factor, if you can believe it or not. And the
North American market has changed too towards more offroading rather than on the road cycling at
night that makers now cater towards that large market segment. Generator lights were designed to be
utilitarian. Install it and forget it until your next bulb change. That means, around 100 hrs of use
or slightly more. We, in North America, treat cycling as a form of recreational function and not as
a transport utility as in Japan and all parts of Asia.

Most of the advancement in generator development are found in Asia. If you shop the bike stores in
Japan or Asia, you will be offered a wide variety of generator light selections, more so than in
here. When I was in Japan working, that's what I saw and that's how I got introduced with the
Sanden system.

By the way, there are more Sanden models than what you see at bikelite.com. The more exotic models
can rival that of a SON/Lumotec system. So no, it's not only SON/Lumotec that delivers low drag, but
certainly it's a capable system and I saw only a few SON system being used in Japan too.

 

[Bernie]

David wrote:

>The problem with generator systems is their uncoolness factor, if you can believe it or not. And
>the North American market has changed too towards more offroading rather than on the road cycling
>at night that makers now cater towards that large market segment. Generator lights were designed to
>be utilitarian.
>
Everybody wants to be stylin'. I want some of both utility and 'style'.

>
>Most of the advancement in generator development are found in Asia. If you shop the bike stores in
>Japan or Asia, you will be offered a wide variety of generator light selections, more so than in
>here. When I was in Japan working, that's what I saw and that's how I got introduced with the
>Sanden system.
>
The only generators I've seen recently were in Canadian Tire stores, and they didn't look serious
enough. I bought blinkies there in the past and won't any more. Low quality - lenses fell off, whole
blinkie fell off the mount, etc. Just not good enough. So... When this generator light arrives I'll
try to give it a fair test. I liked the compactness of the Sanden units - generator and light
together with no wiring. Bernie

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:141220030903164975%[email protected]...

> In article <[email protected]>, Jens Kr. Kirkebø <[email protected]> wrote:

> > What made you think I shine the light onto oncoming traffic ? I point it slightly downwards so I
> > illuminate the ground up to about 30-40 feet before me. No traffic is blinded and noone flashes
> > me. They do see the light nonetheless, but only the outer part which is not blinding. No more
> > light than the cars driving-lights shine upwards on

> Cyclists always sit higher than motorists and as such, beam dispersion angle of bike lights are
> always set high enough to blind a motorist.

This is not true, or at least it shouldn't be. My lights are set to shine on the ground about 20-30
feet ahead of me, whether it's my handlebar lights or my helmet light, or both. There's no reason to
be blinding oncoming traffic. I ride bike paths a lot too, and I've never had any indication I was
blinding oncoming pedestrians. Not everyone is as careful or considerate about their light
adjustment though. And not all lights have well-focused beams. Those Cateye Stadiums are
particularly bad -- blindingly bright, and throwing light everywhere.

Matt O.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> But still, the Vista is much better than even the "spot" beams based on MR-11 or MR-16 bulbs. I
> find that those waste considerable light.

Having had both, I would not say that's true. MR-type lamps vary a lot in their beam patterns. Some
are great and some are awful. My Sunsport is one of the good ones. It has a bright spot about the
same size as a Cateye Micro's, but is much more even (besides being much brighter). Outside that
there's a large ring of fairly dim light, which is very useful, but not wasteful or blinding. In
comparison, the Vista 400 beam is extremely blotchy, which is why it has been superceded in the
marketplace by newer, better designs like the Micro.

Also, in all my years of tinkering with lights, I have found that one cannot evaluate them fairly
without riding with them a bit.

Matt O.

 

[Jens Kr . Kirke]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:44:50 GMT, David
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I know the Nokian Extreme 296 very well. In fact, I ride the Happa 700cx35 version myself with 106
>studs if need be. All I can say is, I am so impressed to hear claims of people able to run a pair
>of 26x2.1 with 296 stud tires that has the highest rolling resistance of any knobbies and be able
>to do usual speeds of up to 20mph on level ground in the winter ice or not.

Wind has _much_ more importance than rolling resistance anyway. Sometimes I struggle to maintain
5mph (seriously!), the other way I might do an easy 30mph. BTW, I'm used to the rolling resistance
as I use fat, knobby tires in the summer too (Kenda Kinetics 2.3). And ice is IMHO the fastest
surface there is, better than pavement.

 

[David]

> Who said anything about descents, about 15-20mph is my usual speed on level ground in the winter,
> ice or not. And we have _lots_ of ice, I do live in Norway. My Nokian Extreme 296 studded tires
> work wondefully on ice, I have never crashed with them. They are far better than the skinnier
> tires with only 106 stunds or so.
>

I know the Nokian Extreme 296 very well. In fact, I ride the Happa 700cx35 version myself with 106
studs if need be. All I can say is, I am so impressed to hear claims of people able to run a pair of
26x2.1 with 296 stud tires that has the highest rolling resistance of any knobbies and be able to do
usual speeds of up to 20mph on level ground in the winter ice or not.

And yes, 20mph = 32km/h. Thanks for the correction. I was tired and sleepy after riding an hour full
with my studded tire that day. You know, man has to keep his bike running at full 32km/h steam ahead
over flats and no less for right?

 

[Zoot Katz]

Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:17:49 -0800, <[email protected]>,
Bernie <[email protected]> wrote:

>So... When this generator light arrives I'll try to give it a fair test. I liked the compactness of
>the Sanden units - generator and light together with no wiring. Bernie

I alway figured combination dynamos were the coolest way to light a bike. Let us know how it
works out.

The front fork mount is nice because it's easier to get at than the rear ones.
--
zk

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:17:49 -0800, <[email protected]>, Bernie <bmcilvan@mouse-
> potato.com> wrote:
>
> >So... When this generator light arrives I'll try to give it a fair test. I liked the compactness
> >of the Sanden units - generator and light together with no wiring. Bernie
>
> I alway figured combination dynamos were the coolest way to light a bike. Let us know how it
> works out.
>
> The front fork mount is nice because it's easier to get at than the rear ones.

I'd love to see the report too! I've seen a few all-in-one units, and the design appeals to me.

Now, the next step is to make it quick-release, like my Cateye handlebar light. The main reason I
use this thing is so I can take it with me while the bike is parked -- because if I don't remove it,
someone else will!

Matt O.

 

[David]

In article <[email protected]>, Matt O'Toole
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:141220030903164975%[email protected]...
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Jens Kr. Kirkebø <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > What made you think I shine the light onto oncoming traffic ? I point it slightly downwards so
> > > I illuminate the ground up to about 30-40 feet before me. No traffic is blinded and noone
> > > flashes me. They do see the light nonetheless, but only the outer part which is not blinding.
> > > No more light than the cars driving-lights shine upwards on
>
> > Cyclists always sit higher than motorists and as such, beam dispersion angle of bike lights are
> > always set high enough to blind a motorist.
>
> This is not true, or at least it shouldn't be. My lights are set to shine on the ground about 20-
> 30 feet ahead of me, whether it's my handlebar lights or my helmet light, or both. There's no
> reason to be blinding oncoming traffic. I ride bike paths a lot too, and I've never had any
> indication I was blinding oncoming pedestrians. Not everyone is as careful or considerate about
> their light adjustment though. And not all lights have well-focused beams. Those Cateye Stadiums
> are particularly bad -- blindingly bright, and throwing light everywhere.

The position is high enough that it may cause this. But if the light itself isn't bright enough to
blind people from far away, that in itself is not a problem. Most low power battery lights have such
low wattage that it isn't possible to blind anyone far away, let alone light the road enough to see
well at night.

 

[Frkrygow]

Matt O'Toole wrote:
> I've seen a few all-in-one units, and the design appeals to me.

One thing to watch for, is to be sure the headlight can be adjusted independent of the generator
body. The first generator I ever used was a "block" generator of this type, and it had no such
adjustability. Optimum position for the generator was not optimum position for the headlight. I
didn't use that one for long.

My seldom-used folding bike has an all-in-one unit. On that, I altered the headlight attachment by
using a longer screw and a spacer, and this allowed a good position for both generator and
headlight.

>
> Now, the next step is to make it quick-release, like my Cateye handlebar light. The main reason I
> use this thing is so I can take it with me while the bike is parked -- because if I don't remove
> it, someone else will!

Check out _Effective Cycling_ by John Forester, page 354-356 of the sixth edition. He describes a
mounting method that allows good adjustment and moderately quick release. You could speed up the
"release" part by using bolts permanently threaded into place so the threads face outwards like
studs, and wing nuts on those.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > I've seen a few all-in-one units, and the
> > design appeals to me.
>
> One thing to watch for, is to be sure the headlight can be adjusted independent of the generator
> body. The first generator I ever used was a "block" generator of this type, and it had no such
> adjustability. Optimum position for the generator was not optimum position for the headlight. I
> didn't use that one for long.
>
> My seldom-used folding bike has an all-in-one unit. On that, I altered the headlight attachment by
> using a longer screw and a spacer, and this allowed a good position for both generator and
> headlight.
>
> >
> > Now, the next step is to make it quick-release, like my Cateye handlebar
light.
> > The main reason I use this thing is so I can take it with me while the bike
is
> > parked -- because if I don't remove it, someone else will!
>
> Check out _Effective Cycling_ by John Forester, page 354-356 of the sixth edition. He describes a
> mounting method that allows good adjustment and moderately quick release. You could speed up the
> "release" part by using bolts permanently threaded into place so the threads face outwards like
> studs, and wing nuts on those.

I'll check it out. Thanks for the tips.

Matt O.

 

[Bernie]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

>"Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:17:49 -0800, <[email protected]>, Bernie <bmcilvan@mouse-
>>potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So... When this generator light arrives I'll try to give it a fair test. I liked the compactness
>>>of the Sanden units - generator and light together with no wiring. Bernie
>>>
>>I alway figured combination dynamos were the coolest way to light a bike. Let us know how it
>>works out.
>>
>>The front fork mount is nice because it's easier to get at than the rear ones.
>>
>
>I'd love to see the report too! I've seen a few all-in-one units, and the design appeals to me.
>
>Now, the next step is to make it quick-release, like my Cateye handlebar light. The main reason I
>use this thing is so I can take it with me while the bike is parked -- because if I don't remove
>it, someone else will!
>
>Matt O.
>
>
You may be right about the quick release. Although the vendor does make the point that because it is
not QR it takes a tool to remove the system. I expect to be low key and just leave it on. I don't
usually leave my bike for long unless I am quite comfortable with the area. I did lose blinkies 2
times at a local supermarket though. Bernie

 

[Per Elmsäter]

Rick Onanian wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:27:07 -0500, "frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote:
>> Now, almost all bulb "burnouts" happen when the bulb is switched on. The cold filament allows a
>> big inrush of current, which kills it.
>>
>> But generator lights don't usually have this problem. They're inherently "soft start" devices. So
>> it occurs to me that generator bulbs can probably be specified for more voltage than if they were
>> used in a battery system.
>>
>> Maybe this is part of the reason that a 3 watt generator seems to light the road better than a 3
>> watt battery light? More bulb efficiency for equal life?
>
> I imagine, then, that battery powered systems could use bulbs that are as efficient as generator
> systems' bulbs without adding more than negligible cost, by adding "soft start" circuitry -- maybe
> a resistor and a capacitor or something. My electronics knowledge, shaky when it was good, is
> nearly non-existant nowadays...but I know that a "soft start" could be made with two or three very
> cheap parts.
>
> Which begs these questions: Do any existing battery lights offer "soft-start" advantages? Would it
> be easy for a soldering-capable person to retrofit?

I just overvolt my Sigma Mirage light by 20% and nothing has blown yet ( about two months
continuos use). It's a two lamp setup so I figure I'll always get home if one bulb eventually does
blow. I calculate to get a 10% lifespan out of the normal expectancy, which is still maybe 400
hours. It'll take me a while to get 400 hours of nightriding in. In other words, I don't think
it's really a problem.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[David]

In article <[email protected]>, Buck < @>
wrote:

> "Doug Purdy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Why don't they mount strobes vertically? That way they should produce more light to the sides
> > instead of up-down.
>
> Another option would be a strobe mounted on top of a whip antenna much like the safety flags some
> people put on kids bikes and trailers. Whip-mounted strobes are commonly used on dune-buggies for
> nighttime sand dune fun! The high mounting position would keep it from blinding fellow riders, but
> would make for a very unusual sight for drivers, thus commanding their attention. The legalities
> and the "fredliness" that would certainly be associated with such a setup is up for debate.
>
> -Buck

The whip antenna light mounted at the side of bikes was popular in Asia and I still think it is. It
is mounted either on the right front fork leg near the quick release or at the rear near the
chainstay (location determined by generator's location. I used to have that when I lived in Asia for
awhile and is powered by a bottle generator (sidewall or tire type). Cool little buggers and a very
hot commodity I might say. This stuff gets stolen easily.