do you support restitution for slavery?

[lyotard]

http://hvk.org/hvk/articles/0601/6.html
there is a clear case for restitution for slavery...

this could set the "free world" on the path away from avoiding the issue and prolonging a legacy of victimization, and it was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.

i personaly am for acknowlegement, apology and restitution.

 

[eric_the_red]

Not sure where I stand on the compensation, but I do have one question. If the former African slaves get compensated are they then going to compensate all the Native Americans for the stolen land that most of them are living on.

 

[lyotard]

this is done in some instance, to some extent, while the slavery issue goes ignored...

Not sure where I stand on the compensation, but I do have one question. If the former African slaves get compensated are they then going to compensate all the Native Americans for the stolen land that most of them are living on.

 

[jhuskey]

Not sure where I stand on the compensation, but I do have one question. If the former African slaves get compensated are they then going to compensate all the Native Americans for the stolen land that most of them are living on.

Speaking as a "part Cherokee", there is not enough money in the treasury to compensate Native Americans.
That history is written and filed away,let's move on.

 

[Don Shipp]

Ha ha I thought you said reinstitution of slavery. Now I would be against that.

 

[lyotard]

there is a money trail in public record leading to corporate and family empires which built said wealth upon slaverey, as well as the prosperity of the us which was built upon slavery.

it is all relative, really, when the us can go into nat'l debt, tax and supply billions to fund various exploits, when corporate profit can grow expotentialy from the labors of their workers, there could then be funds made avb'l should the priorities be in place.

i do realize literal compensation for this is no more possible than compensating those affected than for those on the recieving end of any other victimization
at the hand of the us, but it is a move in at least some positive direction.

and would go far in establishing a path toward true acknowlegement and support of human rights over corporate profit, in the us and globaly.

Speaking as a "part Cherokee", there is not enough money in the treasury to compensate Native Americans.
That history is written and filed away,let's move on.

 

[Don Shipp]

http://hvk.org/hvk/articles/0601/6.html
there is a clear case for restitution for slavery...

this could set the "free world" on the path away from avoiding the issue and prolonging a legacy of victimization, and it was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.

i personaly am for acknowlegement, apology and restitution.

It can be proved that those sold into slavery in America, and their descendents, fared a whole lot better than most Africans who weren't. That isn't to say that slavery was a good thing; it is to say that a lot of lawyers will get rich arguing the two sides of it, whilest the supposed victims will remain uncompensated for the next 4 million years as the debate goes on.

 

[jhuskey]

It can be proved that those sold into slavery in America, and their descendents, fared a whole lot better than most Africans who weren't. That isn't to say that slavery was a good thing; it is to say that a lot of lawyers will get rich arguing the two sides of it, whilest the supposed victims will remain uncompensated for the next 4 million years as the debate goes on.

I would agree with you and further state that such causes become a platform issue for politicians which cheapens any agenda.

 

[wolfix]

http://hvk.org/hvk/articles/0601/6.html
there is a clear case for restitution for slavery...

this could set the "free world" on the path away from avoiding the issue and prolonging a legacy of victimization, and it was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.

i personaly am for acknowlegement, apology and restitution.

Then I suggest you do just that....... I am sure that you can show that you too benifited from slavery. So, what you ned to do is this .... Publish an apology from you , send a check to your favorite charity for slaves, and then feel good about yourself.

 

[wolfix]

http://hvk.org/hvk/articles/0601/6.html
there is a clear case for restitution for slavery...

this could set the "free world" on the path away from avoiding the issue and prolonging a legacy of victimization, and it was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.

i personaly am for acknowlegement, apology and restitution.

Only in coffee shops [when the pains of the world are discussed] is the legacy of victimization prolonged. Everyone else has moved on to new and more current issues.

 

[Chance3290]

there is a money trail in public record leading to corporate and family empires which built said wealth upon slaverey, as well as the prosperity of the us which was built upon slavery.

Unfortuately, corporate and family empires will not be the only ones who pay. Average Joe will also have to fork over hard earned money.

And, what about the other slaves? A man comes to the U.S. from Ireland, post-civil war. He has been, in all but name, a slave working for an English landowner. He has never owned another human being. His family now works in the U.S., not becoming rich, just getting by like most of us. Does his family, now in 2005, have to pay reparations?

Who else should pay? How about the black africans who sold out the neighboring tribe or village to the dutch slavers, do they pay? How about the descendents of those black africans who, now live in the U.S?

I heard that some groups want to go after the railroad since slaves built the tracks. So did the Chinese, Irish, Germans, etc.

If you want to help slaves, you can. Slavery is still alive in many countries. Its easy to find, just hard to find someone to talk about it.

 

[lyotard]

the details would have to be worked out legally.

i feel justice should applied in this case , as it is as valid an issue as any other retribution cases of today. let's remember again this was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.
to consider it non-valid because of perceived complications does not, in my view, make the validity of the issue go away.

as for moving on, yes, i believe in this premise, to move on after adressing and righting wrongs. only then can the us show it has acheived a true resolution in this matter.

to consider just moving on as enough, you must consider that means moving on from justice being applied to this issue. where is the accountability in this?

the above ideals, i feel fit in with any political outlook, and are not partisan in nature. there is a view that tax breaks benefit the economy, but it is well documented that these benefits are proportionately to the greatest advantage of only the weathiest top percentage of the population.

it would follow then, any compensation to the descendants of slaves would also build the economy, as there would be money put back into participating in the economy in terms of business start up, home ownership, tuition payments, loans qualified for, consumer goods purchased,debt payments, investing and so on.

but my overwhelming view is that it is the fundamentaly right thing to do.
to justify otherwise requires a good deal of rationalizing to duck the issue, and concluding it is not valid for reasons of inconvenience or wanting to trivialize.

it is a deserved and applicable form of justice towards setting things right.

Unfortuately, corporate and family empires will not be the only ones who pay. Average Joe will also have to fork over hard earned money.


Who else should pay? .

 

[lyotard]

yeah, watch out for coffee shops and their patrons. this is where voltaire and the likes of diderot and robspierre hung out and did things like foment revolution,
bad news for the aristocracy. trust instead, your conservative think tanks, they have moved on, too. moved on from policies that instill respect for the us on the international stage in favor of supporting the current issues of criminal war policies for the benefit of multinational corporate interests...

always money for that, average joe is buyin' this round.

Only in coffee shops [when the pains of the world are discussed] is the legacy of victimization prolonged. Everyone else has moved on to new and more current issues.

 

[cheapie]

that's a great idea. but what about the white folks in the north that fought against slavery? what % of homes do you think had slaves? and should the black folks in africa that sold their fellow african into slavery pay up? and what about the white slaves? shouldn't they get comped as well?

 

[wolfix]

the details would have to be worked out legally.

i feel justice should applied in this case , as it is as valid an issue as any other retribution cases of today. let's remember again this was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.
to consider it non-valid because of perceived complications does not, in my view, make the validity of the issue go away.

as for moving on, yes, i believe in this premise, to move on after adressing and righting wrongs. only then can the us show it has acheived a true resolution in this matter.

to consider just moving on as enough, you must consider that means moving on from justice being applied to this issue. where is the accountability in this?

the above ideals, i feel fit in with any political outlook, and are not partisan in nature. there is a view that tax breaks benefit the economy, but it is well documented that these benefits are proportionately to the greatest advantage of only the weathiest top percentage of the population.

it would follow then, any compensation to the descendants of slaves would also build the economy, as there would be money put back into participating in the economy in terms of business start up, home ownership, tuition payments, loans qualified for, consumer goods purchased,debt payments, investing and so on.

but my overwhelming view is that it is the fundamentaly right thing to do.
to justify otherwise requires a good deal of rationalizing to duck the issue, and concluding it is not valid for reasons of inconvenience or wanting to trivialize.

it is a deserved and applicable form of justice towards setting things right.

Your post would make a great paper written for Philosophy 101 at a mid -level university. Coffee shop philosophy.
But to state...
" but my overwhelming view is that it is the fundamentaly right thing to do" and then in a later post use "Robespierre"[ not Robspierre ] as an example of intelligent thought and fairness. I think he was known as the man who stood on the moral high ground as he guillotined the people that opposed him. Of course, he was not the only one on that committee that ushered in the "Reign of Terror." But he was the dominant one.
Restitution will never happen. I doubt if many people who wanted to apply for restitution could possibly even have proof of their background. I do not believe that records even exsist. And maybe since our government outlawed and made it a capitol offense to deal in the slave trade about 180 years ago, if we have proof of an individual being related to a slave trader...just maybe we should seek justice and give that individual the death sentence. Make them pay for the sins of their relatives. At this point , then we could move on and the world would see us as a country that seeks justice.
Ridiculous???? Yeah. But so is restitution.
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[lyotard]

i certainly accept you as entitled to your views on restitution, you appear to be anti-compensation, but what of acknowlegement and/or apology?

Your post would make a great paper written for Philosophy 101 at a mid -level university. Coffee shop philosophy.
" and then in a later post use "Robespierre"[ not Robspierre ] as an example of intelligent thought and fairness. Ridiculous???? Yeah. But so is restitution.

 

[Chance3290]

but what of acknowlegement and/or apology?

By whom? And to what end?
As pointed out by many, who is to apologize? The 'government?' It has been done. So, now what? Who is to pay? The blacks who sold their brothers to the slavers? The slavers, long dead? Mr. Henry Lipschitz, who was born in Warsaw-1922, survived the camps, then moved to New York City in 1947. Does he pay? If the government pays, he pays. Why should he pay a penny?
What about affirmative action? Do whites get rebates for lost jobs or lost promotions?

Slavery was wrong. No doubt. Why do you not spend your energy in stopping the slavery that is still taking place TODAY!!! in Asia, Eastern Europe, and yes in Africa? Where is the concern for the people in shackles today?

If you want to help stop this slavery, let me know and I'll send you addresses and websites for the people that are trying to help.

 

[Eldron]

http://hvk.org/hvk/articles/0601/6.html
there is a clear case for restitution for slavery...

this could set the "free world" on the path away from avoiding the issue and prolonging a legacy of victimization, and it was not that long ago in terms of human lifespan.

i personaly am for acknowlegement, apology and restitution.

I'm very much against it.

There are hundreds of reasons for my being anti resitution. Here are some:

Is it fair that great great great (etc) grand children benefit because past generations suffered?

Where do you stop? If ex slave families claim resitution then should native americans claim resitution from the ex slaves because the ex slave families got "rich" from white americans who got "rich" from killing native americans. but the white americans came from europe so should europeans be giving money to the ex slaves to give to the native americans. the native americans can then divide it up amongst the various tribes because the tribes killed each other and stole land blah blah blah. A mobius circle of resitution. Ultimately the UK should pay everybody I guess

Read some media reports on Zimbabwe if you want an idea of resitution gone wrong.

A question - if an ex slave has married a "white" woman and had a baby - does the baby only get half the resitution?

In a perfect world I agree with restitution but in reality it's a quagmire of greed, misplaced guilt and window dressing. Leave well enough alone I say.

 

[wolfix]

Where do you stop? If ex slave families claim resitution then should native americans claim resitution from the ex slaves because the ex slave families got "rich" from white americans who got "rich" from killing native americans. but the white americans came from europe so should europeans be giving money to the ex slaves to give to the native americans. the native americans can then divide it up amongst the various tribes because the tribes killed each other and stole land blah blah blah. A mobius circle of resitution. Ultimately the UK should pay everybody I guess

That was a fun post to read. But I bet it took a few minutes to write. And you forgot to add in in the ex-wife stealing from the family's in question .... And then there is interest on the money. And what about the back rent owed everybody?

 

[el Ingles]

Ha ha I thought you said reinstitution of slavery. Now I would be against that.

did it go away ?