Do you think lance is doping? yes or no
- Thread starter MGM
- Start date
HELL NO!!!! there is no way, read his books if you want to hear about the devotion this man has for cycling, he rides and trains when no one else is even on the bike!!!! thats the proof he doesnt dope! the man is a cycling miracle! im not saying he's the best cyclist ever, but he definatley is the best tour de france rider ever and people hate on him just b/c their jealous!! good ridance to all the haters!!! also heres some more proof, like once a week some drug testing couple barges into his house at any time of day and they get their **** sample b/c if he refuses he's out for the season w/ leagal ****!
grampy bone said:
This is the second time in two days that I've read about his "failed drug test" from the '99 Tour de France. It's certainly not the fault of the public for having this perception since the French media made such a huge issue out of it but he never failed a test.
His sample showed a level of 0.2 from cortisone cream that he applied to a saddle sore. The limit allowed by the UCI is 5, so he had only 1/25th the allowable limit. Even though he was well within the allowable range, the French media tried to turn it into a story worthy of suspicion. We can see how successful they were in that people are still under a misconception about the situation six years later.
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http://espn.go.com/cycling/france99/stage16.html
"The UCI confirmed that the cream was taken with the permission of the U.S. Postal team doctor. The UCI also said Armstrong was negative when he was tested July 3 and that minute levels - a level of 0.2, according to sources - were detected July 4. To be considered positive, the corticosteroids level must be above 5."
http://members.tripod.com/~ChipDoc/TdF99/AStage16.html
"But Armstrong had little time to celebrate the Tour’s departure from the mountains, as the yellow jersey holder again found himself responding to a news report in French paper Le Monde that a recent drug test had revealed trace amounts of cortisone in a urine sample submitted July 4. The Union Cycliste Internationale cleared the U.S. Postal rider, noting that the trace amounts were far below the level required to confirm a positive drug test and that the substances detected were the result of Armstrong’s use of a topical ointment to treat a saddle sore."
During the 1970's Americans sucked in cycling so bad I remember the French said we Americans did not have the "moral fiber" to compete in such a tough and grueling event. Now that the Americans have officially won nine TDF (really 10 since LeMond gave one to Hinault) since the last French victory they use the doping excuse.izzodesh said:
What is odd is the French love Virenque and he has been busted as a doper. Why shouldn't they hate him as much as Armstrong? It must be jealousy.
I think Lance Armstrong, who only really contends for one race a year, doesn't need to dope. He can boost his hematocrit by using legal hypoxic training.
Also, consider that he is tested on an average of 24 times a year. I know Millar tested clean as well, but again until some investigation uncovers that LA dopes (and the investigations against USPS so far have found them to be clean), I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Also, consider that he is tested on an average of 24 times a year. I know Millar tested clean as well, but again until some investigation uncovers that LA dopes (and the investigations against USPS so far have found them to be clean), I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Of course Lance is doping. No doubts at all. He cannot be physically so much more 'gifted' than the rest of the best. And if some of the challengers are on dope, as no doubt many are, how can Lance still beat them? If everyone raced clean, in that case Lance would win by 20minutes 
The denials of doping are worthless. Millar denied it until caught, as have others. The dopers are ahead of the game and easily avoid detection. All this B/S about been the 'most tested athlete' is garbage, as are the tests. I believe many of the tests are useless and are merely an attempt to try and convince us supporters of cycling that the UCI etc.. are doing something about the probleem. But the tests are worthless.
I also wonder what Lance's post-cancer treatment consists of? The (poor) guy lost a testicle to the disease, so does he receive testosterone injections to provide him with the 'normal' level of a normal man? Without testosterone he would not recover from heavy training or racing, so would be no where (look at Chris Boardman, he had low T and struggled to recover in stage racing and just faded towards the end). So, does he receive external testosterone, and what amounts?
Having recently seen some speculation on his power output before and after cancer, suggesting something like a 7.5% increase in his VO2max before vs. after (impossible for a highly trained pro, damn good for someone in their 2nd year of cycling I would say!) it's all too fishy.
The denials of doping are worthless. Millar denied it until caught, as have others. The dopers are ahead of the game and easily avoid detection. All this B/S about been the 'most tested athlete' is garbage, as are the tests. I believe many of the tests are useless and are merely an attempt to try and convince us supporters of cycling that the UCI etc.. are doing something about the probleem. But the tests are worthless.
I also wonder what Lance's post-cancer treatment consists of? The (poor) guy lost a testicle to the disease, so does he receive testosterone injections to provide him with the 'normal' level of a normal man? Without testosterone he would not recover from heavy training or racing, so would be no where (look at Chris Boardman, he had low T and struggled to recover in stage racing and just faded towards the end). So, does he receive external testosterone, and what amounts?
Having recently seen some speculation on his power output before and after cancer, suggesting something like a 7.5% increase in his VO2max before vs. after (impossible for a highly trained pro, damn good for someone in their 2nd year of cycling I would say!) it's all too fishy.
Some of the responses on here are hilarious (jrewill ). Does anyone want to argue based on facts, or just on hope, or from the blind bias of being a US fan/citizen?
Merckx may have used dope, amphetamines, to race on even when tired, but that does not improve performance except allowing an athlete to push beyond their limits. That's pretty tame stuff compared to the products available for performance enhancement these days.
The non-sense about Lance training harder than everyone else. Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard? Do you think no one but Lance trains hard? Do you think you can train hard everyday, or longer or harder than everyone else? It's just not possible. Improvement comes when resting. You can only train so much, anyone can, anymore and you will make yourself ill.
Lance's reported VO2max results from way back are good, world class, but certainly not the best ever. I believe Brad McGee has an amazing 90+ VO2max, yet as a clean athlete (I do believe him) he is only just competitive. Saying Lance was beating others in Triathlons at 12 is all well and good, but Lance is physiologically gifted (great VO2max and an attitude in training to push himself and improve his LT) and at 12 (I think he was older though?) he would have beaten people in their 20s who were considered 'good' with the VO2max he had.
And to find some people that still think Marion Jones is clean. Wow. Do you really believe that? With the associations she has had with people from Balco, her husband's name is all over paperwork discovered at Balco? And her performance since her comeback is nowhere near her previous level.
I can't believe some of you are so naive
). Does anyone want to argue based on facts, or just on hope, or from the blind bias of being a US fan/citizen?Merckx may have used dope, amphetamines, to race on even when tired, but that does not improve performance except allowing an athlete to push beyond their limits. That's pretty tame stuff compared to the products available for performance enhancement these days.
The non-sense about Lance training harder than everyone else. Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard? Do you think no one but Lance trains hard? Do you think you can train hard everyday, or longer or harder than everyone else? It's just not possible. Improvement comes when resting. You can only train so much, anyone can, anymore and you will make yourself ill.
Lance's reported VO2max results from way back are good, world class, but certainly not the best ever. I believe Brad McGee has an amazing 90+ VO2max, yet as a clean athlete (I do believe him) he is only just competitive. Saying Lance was beating others in Triathlons at 12 is all well and good, but Lance is physiologically gifted (great VO2max and an attitude in training to push himself and improve his LT) and at 12 (I think he was older though?) he would have beaten people in their 20s who were considered 'good' with the VO2max he had.
And to find some people that still think Marion Jones is clean. Wow. Do you really believe that? With the associations she has had with people from Balco, her husband's name is all over paperwork discovered at Balco? And her performance since her comeback is nowhere near her previous level.
I can't believe some of you are so naive
The question put is "Do you think lance is doping? yes or no"
***** Voet (ex Festina soigneur) in his book asserted that 95% of the peloton are on performance enhancing drugs. He even named some of the clean riders which would suggest those unnamed are held to be on the juice. He even pointed out that the held view was that Charlie Mottell, the top French rider, could never win a multi stage tour, like the TdF, because he was clean and riders needed illegal drugs to at least to recover and perform in the TdF.
So I "think" I would pigeon hole Lance Armstrong in the 95% category.
There are a lot of presumptions made by patriotic Americans about Lance Armstrong. That cancer made him more resolute and determined, he would never take PED's because it would harm his body and he was an uncommitted trainer before cancer.
Read LA's first book. He trained hard (supposedly with this new found determination and resolve) for his comeback after cancer but found he was not competitive. He retired in a dejected and depressed state from the sport and by April 1998 had put on excess weight from being idle around the house watching TV all day and consuming beer and Mexican food. I would have thought his oncology doctor would have been appalled at his physical state by allowing his body to deteriorate through alcohol and a poor diet.
He was encouraged to make another comeback and with just a few weeks of training was winning races in Europe. It was not cancer that turned LA around, it was what occurred in circa April 1998 and thereafter.
***** Voet (ex Festina soigneur) in his book asserted that 95% of the peloton are on performance enhancing drugs. He even named some of the clean riders which would suggest those unnamed are held to be on the juice. He even pointed out that the held view was that Charlie Mottell, the top French rider, could never win a multi stage tour, like the TdF, because he was clean and riders needed illegal drugs to at least to recover and perform in the TdF.
So I "think" I would pigeon hole Lance Armstrong in the 95% category.
There are a lot of presumptions made by patriotic Americans about Lance Armstrong. That cancer made him more resolute and determined, he would never take PED's because it would harm his body and he was an uncommitted trainer before cancer.
Read LA's first book. He trained hard (supposedly with this new found determination and resolve) for his comeback after cancer but found he was not competitive. He retired in a dejected and depressed state from the sport and by April 1998 had put on excess weight from being idle around the house watching TV all day and consuming beer and Mexican food. I would have thought his oncology doctor would have been appalled at his physical state by allowing his body to deteriorate through alcohol and a poor diet.
He was encouraged to make another comeback and with just a few weeks of training was winning races in Europe. It was not cancer that turned LA around, it was what occurred in circa April 1998 and thereafter.
TTer said:Some of the responses on here are hilarious (jrewill
Merckx may have used dope, amphetamines, to race on even when tired, but that does not improve performance except allowing an athlete to push beyond their limits. That's pretty tame stuff compared to the products available for performance enhancement these days.
The non-sense about Lance training harder than everyone else. Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard? Do you think no one but Lance trains hard? Do you think you can train hard everyday, or longer or harder than everyone else? It's just not possible. Improvement comes when resting. You can only train so much, anyone can, anymore and you will make yourself ill.
Lance's reported VO2max results from way back are good, world class, but certainly not the best ever. I believe Brad McGee has an amazing 90+ VO2max, yet as a clean athlete (I do believe him) he is only just competitive. Saying Lance was beating others in Triathlons at 12 is all well and good, but Lance is physiologically gifted (great VO2max and an attitude in training to push himself and improve his LT) and at 12 (I think he was older though?) he would have beaten people in their 20s who were considered 'good' with the VO2max he had.
And to find some people that still think Marion Jones is clean. Wow. Do you really believe that? With the associations she has had with people from Balco, her husband's name is all over paperwork discovered at Balco? And her performance since her comeback is nowhere near her previous level.
I can't believe some of you are so naive
So what are your facts?You place the same argument as everyone else. He is so much better than my loverboy that he must be cheating. Laugh when you got the goods on him. Get some facts yourself or take a back seat. He got the title so take it like a man. Geez I am so sick of this ****.
I think alot of it depends on your definition of doping. You call it doping, he calls it supplements.
TTer said:Of course Lance is doping. No doubts at all. He cannot be physically so much more 'gifted' than the rest of the best. And if some of the challengers are on dope, as no doubt many are, how can Lance still beat them? If everyone raced clean, in that case Lance would win by 20minutes
The denials of doping are worthless. Millar denied it until caught, as have others. The dopers are ahead of the game and easily avoid detection. All this B/S about been the 'most tested athlete' is garbage, as are the tests. I believe many of the tests are useless and are merely an attempt to try and convince us supporters of cycling that the UCI etc.. are doing something about the probleem. But the tests are worthless.
(...snip)
Much has been said about the message passed to children and those just starting to get serious in the sport when they see the pros using performance enhancing drugs. The suggestion is made that the message they receive is that it's common and therefore, there really isn't anything wrong with it.
Posts and opinions such as the one above cause me to contemplate the message passed to them by those who require no proof before making accusations. It would seem that those new in the sport might as well dope since even if they don't, should they rise to the top of the sport, there will be a fair number of people who allow their bias and bitterness to suggest that they are doping and even to act as though it's absolute fact even in the absence of the slightest tangible evidence.
Is this the message we want to pass to the newbies? Go ahead and dope because no one will believe that you aren't doping anyway.
The former USPS doctor you're talking about claimed that Tyler and another USPS team member both approached him at the same time for doping purposes and "seemed to represent the team," as this doc put it. Tyler's a pretty straight-up guy and on his web site (www.tylerhamilton.com) he gives a pretty strong response denying this accusation. Lance isn't doping. His VO2 max uptake is just off the charts. Because of this he produces very low levels of lactic acid. He also trains like a man possessed. He's just one of those guys, genetically gifted with a strong will. What can you say?grampy bone said:
-Peter
Lehmann108 said:
You must be aware by now that an admission to taking illegal performance enhancing drugs is the equivalent in the imposition of sanctions as failing a drug test.
No athlete admits to taking PED's for this reason. They only finally concede after they have challenged the drug testing regime and the case has been proved against them. The US track sprinter, Kelli White, did admit to taking drugs but I understand there was mounting circumstantial evidence.
Would you expect Tyler Hamilton (or any other rider) if on PED's would admit to taking drugs without a positive test if it meant automatic banning from the sport for 2 years?
Read about the BALCO case. The athletes and their chemists were ahead of the testers and could confidently use variants of particular drugs knowing there was no test for them. BALCO even had a mole inside WADA secretly keeping them updated on the introduction of new drug tests. All those athletes could claim "I'm clean because I never failed a drug test."
If anyone has read his second book, "every second counts" you would see that there are a couple of things that are very important to him. Winning, his family and his reputation.
On the one hand, winning might make him dope, as it has done for so many others.
However I think his family and his reputation are more important than winning. He openly states that he would hate for his kids to grow up with a father that was known as a doper. He also states that if his reputation was damaged it would also damage the cause that he has fought so hard for. So with that said I leave you to make up your own mind. Just remember, our society is based around the presumption of innocence. So until someone produces evidence to the contrary in an appropriate forum, we have no choice but to take him at is word and admire is achievements
On the one hand, winning might make him dope, as it has done for so many others.
However I think his family and his reputation are more important than winning. He openly states that he would hate for his kids to grow up with a father that was known as a doper. He also states that if his reputation was damaged it would also damage the cause that he has fought so hard for. So with that said I leave you to make up your own mind. Just remember, our society is based around the presumption of innocence. So until someone produces evidence to the contrary in an appropriate forum, we have no choice but to take him at is word and admire is achievements
I've seen reported that Lance is the most tested athlete on the planet. My faith has been shaken by Millar but I'm clinging onto my believe Lance is clean.
If he had come from no where won the TdF and world champs then disappeared again I think that would be very suspect. I think his consistency in this single race for the past 6 years whilst continually being tested is good proof that he isn't doping.
If the opposite is ever proved I'll be gutted.
There were some good articles on doping in cycling in the comic this week. Nicole Cook had some good points.
If he had come from no where won the TdF and world champs then disappeared again I think that would be very suspect. I think his consistency in this single race for the past 6 years whilst continually being tested is good proof that he isn't doping.
If the opposite is ever proved I'll be gutted.
There were some good articles on doping in cycling in the comic this week. Nicole Cook had some good points.
I think Lance is taking PED's.
Even amateur racing in Europe is fast and the best amateurs are riding as motorbikes. When amateurs race with the pro's, amateurs have no chance even against 2nd and 3rd division pro's. Lance doesn't ride any smaller races where there are also amateurs riding, Lance rides only in bigger races where there's no weak riders, only better half of the pro peloton. So Lance races with the best of the peloton and still beats them in Tour. OK...Now people start to write replies saying "Lance have Tour as his only goal...". Do you think Basso didn't have only one goal for 2004 after his 2003 Tour?
I know many European amateurs take PED's and they still don't have any chance in pro peloton. There's no not gifted in international amateur peloton in Europe. Lance beats the best of the pro peloton and he's doing it just because he's so gifted and he trains so hard when everybody else are just drinking and eating. Knowing how riders train, there's not too many hangover mornings.
I change my opinion a bit...It's really hard to think Lance is clean IMO.
Even amateur racing in Europe is fast and the best amateurs are riding as motorbikes. When amateurs race with the pro's, amateurs have no chance even against 2nd and 3rd division pro's. Lance doesn't ride any smaller races where there are also amateurs riding, Lance rides only in bigger races where there's no weak riders, only better half of the pro peloton. So Lance races with the best of the peloton and still beats them in Tour. OK...Now people start to write replies saying "Lance have Tour as his only goal...". Do you think Basso didn't have only one goal for 2004 after his 2003 Tour?
I know many European amateurs take PED's and they still don't have any chance in pro peloton. There's no not gifted in international amateur peloton in Europe. Lance beats the best of the pro peloton and he's doing it just because he's so gifted and he trains so hard when everybody else are just drinking and eating. Knowing how riders train, there's not too many hangover mornings.
I change my opinion a bit...It's really hard to think Lance is clean IMO.
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