Do you think lance is doping? yes or no



jonuck

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Apr 28, 2003
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Absolutely not! - Intelligent training regimen, Attention to details and superb Teamwork are reasons for this ultimate Athletes success.
 

Flyer

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Sep 20, 2004
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House said:
Nice response, shot down all over the place. What a joke you and your obsession are.
Yet another mentally challenged response.

Just make sure your House is below ground. You won't like the doping confessions and embarrassments when you first hear them.---from your favorite riders. Obviously, you are not moved by other Champions and peers of LA.

Eventually you will grow to accept that anemia, renal failure and bovine plasma oxygen solutions may actually save the lives of many critically ill non-athletes.

In this context, the TDF is a monument of clinical trials. It may lead to the perfection of profitable drugs to save lives.

The cheating, lying and fraud part hardly matters.

If Richard Virenque, admitted under oath doper, can wear a Yellow Wrist Band and gain sympathy, anything is possible.

The ends always justify the means with doping.
 

House

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Aug 9, 2004
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Flyer said:
Yet another mentally challenged response.

Just make sure your House is below ground. You won't like the doping confessions and embarrassments when you first hear them.---from your favorite riders. Obviously, you are not moved by other Champions and peers of LA.

Eventually you will grow to accept that anemia, renal failure and bovine plasma oxygen solutions may actually save the lives of many critically ill non-athletes.

In this context, the TDF is a monument of clinical trials. It may lead to the perfection of profitable drugs to save lives.

The cheating, lying and fraud part hardly matters.

If Richard Virenque, admitted under oath doper, can wear a Yellow Wrist Band and gain sympathy, anything is possible.

The ends always justify the means with doping.
Once again I ask, do you actually pay attention to the complete and utter **** that flows from you???
 

RuthA

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Jul 18, 2004
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Walrus said:
Without any proof that he is doping, all we can say is that he is a phenomenon. All other opinions are just suspiscions.
Lance Armstrong is NOT doping. I think that he'd have to have some Magic Beans if he were! Although by now, I suspect that Magic Beans can be tested for. He was VERY lucky to've been born with larger lungs and a larger heart than most other bike racers. And, yeah, he's gonna win THIS Tour de France, too. (I just hope he brings Sheryl this year.)
 

ed073

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May 19, 2004
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RuthA said:
Lance Armstrong is NOT doping. I think that he'd have to have some Magic Beans if he were! Although by now, I suspect that Magic Beans can be tested for. He was VERY lucky to've been born with larger lungs and a larger heart than most other bike racers. And, yeah, he's gonna win THIS Tour de France, too. (I just hope he brings Sheryl this year.)


Yeah....and neither is Curt Schilling or Barry Bonds or Kostas Kenteris.

They're all just gifted.
 

Flyer

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Sep 20, 2004
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Great post.

Magic beans are not listed on the 2005 WADA banned Substances Schedule.

However, given that at least half of the drugs on that WADA list cannot be reliably tested for anyway it hardly matters. Being on the list is sort of a warning, that someday, a lab might be able to. I am sure that there are many 'magic beans & liquids' not known to WADA.

The TUEs and the attorneys can handle the very few positives which may arise. Still awaiting Tyler's tale of USADA determination.

No, we will rely upon insiders, whistle blowers, customs agents, and police to catch a big fish.
 

cuchullain

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Mar 27, 2005
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I've been a Tour de Couch fan for the past 5 years, and finally got off my **** and have been an avid, newbie roadie for about a year. I don't claim to be nearly as knowledgeable or gifted as many of you.

However, as one who has been involved with some fairly serious training and pushing of physical limits for quite some time, I find the following full of holes: The non-sense about Lance training harder than everyone else. Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard? Do you think no one but Lance trains hard? Do you think you can train hard everyday, or longer or harder than everyone else? It's just not possible. Improvement comes when resting. You can only train so much, anyone can, anymore and you will make yourself ill."

Many potential world class athletes fall short due to lack of drive, ambition, self determination, courage...gee, all the shortcomings of an average Frenchman. Their Le Tour record lately is comparable to their history of warfare: retreat, surrender, capitulate, embelllish, lie.

Also, the pysiological aspects of Armstrongs performance cannot be overlooked, nor minimalized. Secretariat was under suspicion for his whole career; it wasn't until his autopsy that they realized that a deformation of the heart, resulting in a near doubling in size and corresponding VO2max, made him physically more able to do more...Lance, and the rest of us, ain't nothing more nor nothin' less than just another mammal. Some hunt and gather better than others. Some can ride the hell out of a bike. Some, thank God for all the underachievers out there, are French.:cool:


TTer said:
Some of the responses on here are hilarious (jrewill :D). Does anyone want to argue based on facts, or just on hope, or from the blind bias of being a US fan/citizen?

Merckx may have used dope, amphetamines, to race on even when tired, but that does not improve performance except allowing an athlete to push beyond their limits. That's pretty tame stuff compared to the products available for performance enhancement these days.

The non-sense about Lance training harder than everyone else. Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard? Do you think no one but Lance trains hard? Do you think you can train hard everyday, or longer or harder than everyone else? It's just not possible. Improvement comes when resting. You can only train so much, anyone can, anymore and you will make yourself ill.

Lance's reported VO2max results from way back are good, world class, but certainly not the best ever. I believe Brad McGee has an amazing 90+ VO2max, yet as a clean athlete (I do believe him) he is only just competitive. Saying Lance was beating others in Triathlons at 12 is all well and good, but Lance is physiologically gifted (great VO2max and an attitude in training to push himself and improve his LT) and at 12 (I think he was older though?) he would have beaten people in their 20s who were considered 'good' with the VO2max he had.

And to find some people that still think Marion Jones is clean. Wow. Do you really believe that? With the associations she has had with people from Balco, her husband's name is all over paperwork discovered at Balco? And her performance since her comeback is nowhere near her previous level.

I can't believe some of you are so naive :rolleyes:
 

jmp

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Aug 28, 2004
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No way !! Lance is " the man " Kind of like Gordy Howe is " Mr. Hockey " . I have heard he is the most tested athlete to date . It would really hurt the cycling in the U.S. , I believe if he was , but along with other recent events we American's would get over it. :)
 

bastion

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May 25, 2004
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I think we are all missing the point.
He has inspired so many Cancer sufferers that it doesn't really matter so long as we never find out.
 

zax1

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Aug 9, 2004
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Well I certainly don't think racism makes Lance a better rider, fortunaley (See Crud munchers reply or whatever his name is)


"Many potential world class athletes fall short due to lack of drive, ambition, self determination, courage...gee, all the shortcomings of an average Frenchman. Their Le Tour record lately is comparable to their history of warfare: retreat, surrender, capitulate, embelllish, lie."


Fortunatley we've had one or two french men do one or two good rides in cycling history, and fortunatly (or unfortunatly - which ever way you look at it) the French cycling authouries have become very hard on drugs in the last five years (coinceidenlty Lance decided to up and live in Spain - not so hard on testing). Anyway most of the past champions have admitted to using which i'm sure has been over covered in this thread. But people don't let stupid biggoted ideas like racism against a nationality get in your way (The Americans are a pretty rough diamond when it comes to doping history). And as for romanticsm, lance has done so much for this sport he is an icon and that will live forever - even if he were to be caught - and rightly so. But being the icon he is has afforded him ammenieties that only the millions and millions that we can't imagine to purchase ergogenics (legal or illegal) of which we will never imagine.
 

meehs

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Nov 7, 2003
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cuchullain said:
Do you really believe Pro's at the very top level, the very best of the best, the one or two that make it out of each region of a nation, really cannot be bothered training hard?

I'm not trying to defend LA as a non-doper but the fact that he trains harder than some other top pros is not only possible, it's quite obvious. Stop by the bakery in Merdingen, Germany where you can talk to Jan Ullrich about it as he stuffs his face with buns, while at the same time in the USA, LA is out on an early season training ride. I believe that if Ullrich trained as hard as Armstrong, there wouldn't be a six time tour winner today. Or if there was, it might very well be Ullrich instead of Armstrong. The argument that all of the top pros train just as hard as Armstrong simply doesn't wash.
 

freeagent35

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Jan 8, 2005
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Since Lance won the prologue at the 1999 tour, everyone (especially the Europeans) have been trying to figure out "how?" Given that cycling is very much a European sport, I understand. If a French team won the Superbowl or the NBA finals 6 years in a row, you can bet for sure that there would be a lot of unhappy campers in the good ole US of A.

That said, you'll never convince me that Lance is doping. Simple facts: (1) He has been tested, snooped, followed, etc, etc, far more than any human ever. Except for scuttlebutt, there has been nothing to indicate doping. (2) Since 1999, or at least 2001, he has surrounded himself with the best team. Great climbers (Rubierra, Heras, Acevedo, etc.) so he can take it relatively easy up to the point where he really needs to let it all hang out. On the flats, the blue train surrounds him and keeps him out of trouble. They always (at least the last few years) finish well in the team time trial so he does not have extra time to make up. (3) When other people are enjoying themselves, Lance is working and training. They all know it, and they all hate that the guy seems to have an almost inhuman ability to stay focused and suffer. (I don't blame them...my motivation comes and goes too.) (4) With the exception of 2003 (where this mistake almost cost him the tour), Lance does not appear to RACE really hard at any events within about 30 to 45 days of the tour, or even longer. He clearly knows how to have his body peak at exactly the right time. (5) Lance's team is 100% dedicated to him at all times. You never see anyone go ahead unless it is part of the plan, or something Lance allows because he can do so safely. Ulrich had to deal with team politics in 1997 and 1998, and again in 2004, where the leadership of his team was in question. In 2003, no one gave him any credit when he was on Bianchi, but in fairness it seems like he had a team that was the most dedicated to him that he had ever enjoyed. This, plus better fitness and motivation, likely led to one of his best results. (6) Winning the tour is clearly a very difficult concoction: you have to be able to climb, AND time trial, skills that are rather diverse. Only a very few riders are good at both of these skills (and at times sprinting (which can come in quite handy as well). As odd as it is, Lance's cancer (and the associated weight loss) seems to have allowed him to become a much better climber in a way no one else likely can, or would want to. (7) Lance's team is ABLE, financially, to be able to focus ONLY on the tour. Any other stage or event wins appear to be simple icing on the cake. For a lot of riders, they need to ride well all season, just to eat and maintain team positions (jobs). Having the luxury to focus on one race only, without worrying about the bills, and to be supported with the best team and equipment is a TREMENDOUS asset both psychologically, as well as physically. (8) Give credit to more than a little luck in terms of crashes, injuries/illness, flats/mechanicals, etc. You make your own luck to a great extent, but he has certainly had his share.

If Lance was winning the Tour, and the Giro, and the Olympics, etc., I think you would have a better argument. But, to me it is simply a matter of strong financing, tremendous self discipline and self control, and a willingness to sacrifice whatever is necessary (including wins at other prestigous events such as the Giro) to win the tour. Barring injury or illness, I have no doubt that he'll win #7. Then, I hope that he choses not to race the tour again. It is better for any sport not to have any rider/team, no matter who they are, win too many times.

One other thing I would like the Europeans to think about; being gracious. Cycling is not an American sport. Simply put, the average American does not have the patience for a 3 week bike race. In a world of touchdowns and slam dunks, that kind of event simply does not compute. As a recreational cyclist who has spent over 25 years on American roads, I think that Lance has been good for America for a number of reasons, including hopefully making the average Joe a little more polite to a cyclist he sees riding down the road. Whereas cycling appears to be rather well accepted in Europe as part of transportation and culture, in the states riders are treated like freaks (in spandex) or at least horrific inconveniences to Mr. Joe driving in his oversized gas sucking SUV (while talking on the friggin cell phone no less).

There is at least some chance that Lance has caused people to take up cycling who otherwise would not have, or if they haven't, to at least show riders they see a little courtesy. I truly believe if this is true that we all (including mother earth) are a little bit better off for it. While Lance's reign is coming to a close, consider that, and perhaps it will make it easier to stomach.
 

wilmar13

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Nov 30, 2003
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Beastt said:
Last I checked it was nowhere near the Post a Reply button. ;)

touché, just sick and tired of all the doping conjecture and speculation and can't believe I am the only one? Until someone is found guilty or caught by a reputable test and or governing body why is there a discussion? :confused:
 

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