Do you think lance is doping? yes or no

[meehs]

touché, just sick and tired of all the doping conjecture and speculation and can't believe I am the only one?

FWIW: You are definitely not the only one. However, there are some here that seem to never tire of beating the dead and now decaying horse.

 

[jhuskey]

FWIW: You are definitely not the only one. However, there are some here that seem to never tire of beating the dead and now decaying horse.

I heard about that race horse. Died from doping, I hear. Jockeys should be shot.

 

[limerickman]

There's a whole world of cycling out there - apart from Lance Armstrong and
apart from the question of doping.

I think people will always be divided on this question and I think we just have to get on with it.

But the sport is bigger than LA or Jan Ullrich for that matter.
Look at Julich's performances recently.
There is barely any comment about it on this entire forum.
It was the same last year when Rebellin did the hat-trick.

Cycling isn't just the TDF.

So come on folks, let's broaden the discussion.

We have perhaps the toughest one day classic this week.
It's called the Tour of Flanders.
Plenty of good cyclists - plenty of contenders.

 

[meehs]

There's a whole world of cycling out there - apart from Lance Armstrong and
apart from the question of doping.

I think people will always be divided on this question and I think we just have to get on with it.

But the sport is bigger than LA or Jan Ullrich for that matter.
Look at Julich's performances recently.
There is barely any comment about it on this entire forum.
It was the same last year when Rebellin did the hat-trick.

Cycling isn't just the TDF.

So come on folks, let's broaden the discussion.

We have perhaps the toughest one day classic this week.
It's called the Tour of Flanders.
Plenty of good cyclists - plenty of contenders.

All good points Limerickman. I agree. Julich is off to a remarkable start this year! We actually have some television coverage here in the USA of the Tour of Flanders thanks to OLN's "Cyclism Sunday" ( ). I'm looking forward to watching on Sunday.

 

[Froze]

No flame wars please, just want to get an idea of people view on this. Thanks, Michael

All this doping stuff may have happened before Lance got cancer and that rumor were based on former riders training under Chris Carmichael and those riders claimed to know that Lance was doing it as well. Supposely after the cancer Chris could no longer in good conscious (and moral issues) dope his riders, and since then has concentrated on other technology such as the HRM and watts training methods which Chris has perfected.

Also Lance's doctors have said that Lance is a rare person that was born with cardio capabilities that represent only about 1% of the population; whether that's true or not Lance trains hard, and the combination of training and his cardio capabilities have led him to excel...at least in one race-the TDF!

Now lets start another flame war...Lance is the greatest TDF rider ever BUT not the greatest rider ever, that title would have to fall onto Eddy Merckx because he won much greater variety of races that Lance has never won.

 

[wilmar13]

There's a whole world of cycling out there - apart from Lance Armstrong and
apart from the question of doping.

But the sport is bigger than LA or Jan Ullrich for that matter.
Look at Julich's performances recently.
There is barely any comment about it on this entire forum.
It was the same last year when Rebellin did the hat-trick.

So come on folks, let's broaden the discussion.

We have perhaps the toughest one day classic this week.
It's called the Tour of Flanders.
Plenty of good cyclists - plenty of contenders.

Exactly! Well said. Now lets talk about bike racing in the bike racing forum...

 

[Beastt]

touché, just sick and tired of all the doping conjecture and speculation and can't believe I am the only one? Until someone is found guilty or caught by a reputable test and or governing body why is there a discussion?

Not at all, wilmar13. All in fun I assure you.
And I also assure you, that I, like you, get rather sick and tired of some of this. Opinions are fine, presentation of evidence/counter-evidence is fine but some don't know the difference between suspecting he's clean and knowing he's clean. Others have no idea that there is a difference between thinking he's doping and knowing he is.

Despite many, perhaps the majority of these posts, the obvious thing, (should be obvious, anyway), is that no one here, no matter what they say, really knows for sure one way or the other.

 

[charming]

what an outrageous suggestion.... ooh, I think the acid is starting to kick in

 

[VeloFlash]

Also Lance's doctors have said that Lance is a rare person that was born with cardio capabilities that represent only about 1% of the population; whether that's true or not Lance trains hard, and the combination of training and his cardio capabilities have led him to excel...at least in one race-the TDF!

Mmmmm ...... but less than 1% of the population are professional elite bike riders. Or are they all just lazy and inept trainers except for LA?

 

[meehs]

Mmmmm ...... but less than 1% of the population are professional elite bike riders. Or are they all just lazy and inept trainers except for LA?

Not sure if I beleive that LA is in the top 1% but as an aside; cycling isn't the only endurance sport that favors athletes with superior cardio capabilities so that top 1% (whomever they are) may not entirely end-up in pro cycling.

That said, no one is suggesting that all of the other top cyclists are "lazy and inept trainers". But it is a fact that those with superior genes (i.e. freakish cardio/lung capacity) will rise to the top if they work as hard or harder than the others. Migeul Indurain is a fine example of this.

 

[teammiyata]

The short answer is yes. Yes, Lance is probably taking the same stuff that EVERYBODY else is taking. To chastise him for this is really unfair. He is epo'n just as much as the rest of the field. His performance, however, is not evidence of doping. It is just good ol' whoop ass plain and simple(the playing field is level). The real thing we must realize is that Lance has had cancer. This means that by taking EPO he is stimulating his mast cells deep inside his bone marrow. These cells have shown cancerous tendencies in his past and could very easliy rear their ugly heads again. Put simple, Lance is taking the biggest risk of ALL of his competitors. He is gambling with his life. Besides, if the European testing officilas really wanted to crack down on EPO usage they would test pre and post race. They don't do this because by the end of the Tour we'd be left with a couple a' kids doin' wheelies on banana seats. ....not that I have anything against wheelies or banana seats.

 

[Oskar]

If others that are not even close to him(as far as performance goes) are getting caught, then YES, he is on something that is not illegal, has not been detected yet, or has a great masking agent.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[Flyer]

Great post.

And considering we are dealing with an intensely competitive mindset---whose entire self-definition is winning and who nearly died of cancer-----this is a fatalistic person.

When you combine this extreme determination on winning against a drugged out peleton, then add in the fatalism and a convicted blood doper physician (Ferrari aka: Schumi)---we may have the most ambitious synthetic substance abuser the sport has ever known.

Lance has proven to have all the elements of an addict. Listen to the ludicrous denials and rants he has blurted:

Just after the funeral for Marco Pantani, Lance makes these outrageously false comments.

March 5, 2004: On Richard Pound & WADA.
'Every sport has doping problems. Cycling is certainly a sport that has problems. But who can deny that we have cleaned it up?

Gee, I can. Just after these ridiculous remarks we had David Millar admit to EPO abuse, followed by the exposure of Camenzind, Hamilton, Perez, Hondo.


December 14, 2000 re: Actovegin ban by the IOC

On his LA website Lance wrote: 'We run a very clean team that has been singled out due to our success. It has been a very frustrating situation that will absolutely be cleared up---I am confident of that. I'm not going to give a politically vague response like "We've never tested positive" because that's not fair either. I will say that the substance on people's minds, Activ-o-something (Actovegin, calf blood) is new to me. Before this ordeal I had never heard of it, nor had my teammates.'

'It's pretty simple-our team doctor is on the road with us for three weeks to treat a group of 25-50 people. If something were to go wrong with any of them he would be responsible for their well-being. That's why he would have things like adrenaline, cotisone, scissors, stitches, etc...'

Great explanation!

Armstrong was sufficiently annoyed that he 1) sold his house in Nice and moved to Spain, and 2) threatened to boycott the 2001 TDF 3) he hired a public relations firm to defend his image.

Now we know why USPO trauma doctors carry drugs not clinically approved for use in humans. It is because something might go wrong with people.

December 17, 2000, USPO admitted possessing the Actovegin (which was not a banned products because it was not even Clinically approved for human use yet) during the 2000 TDF. This was the exception.

The short answer is yes. Yes, Lance is probably taking the same stuff that EVERYBODY else is taking. To chastise him for this is really unfair. He is epo'n just as much as the rest of the field. His performance, however, is not evidence of doping. It is just good ol' whoop ass plain and simple(the playing field is level). The real thing we must realize is that Lance has had cancer. This means that by taking EPO he is stimulating his mast cells deep inside his bone marrow. These cells have shown cancerous tendencies in his past and could very easliy rear their ugly heads again. Put simple, Lance is taking the biggest risk of ALL of his competitors. He is gambling with his life. Besides, if the European testing officilas really wanted to crack down on EPO usage they would test pre and post race. They don't do this because by the end of the Tour we'd be left with a couple a' kids doin' wheelies on banana seats. ....not that I have anything against wheelies or banana seats.

 

[TimBooth]

If the UCI haven't banned it, it isn't 'doping'. He is taking all manner of stuff, just like everyone else in the peloton. Perhaps even something that only his team currently have. Natural progression from taking vitamin shots and anything else to help you win.

And to those Americans who said that Indurain and Merckx were "as good as LA..." I have only one thing to say to you - One Trick Pony. Indurain and Merckx rode just about every race each season, not just one. LA is a great rider, but not in the class of the other two.

 

[tcklyde]

LA is a great rider, but not in the class of the other two.

Glad we got that cleared up. Single most posted sentiment in this forum.

 

[amog]

Hey guys! wake up!!

Now on HARD professional sports like cycling doping is not rare cheat, is the rutine, like diet, training, rest, etc.

And Lance is not the exception, he´s a hero and nobody will change that, but the fact about his "Dr. help" is not a thing that take off his effort because all his rivals need it too.

It´s a fact you can´t do a Tour and figth for the victory only with raice, pasta, chicken and "Centrum"!.
Everybody who have done a stage race know what Im talking about.

Lance it´s a hero. Doping its another part of be a pro cyclist.

 

[bikeraph]

Saying that Lance is doping is like saying that Tyler Hamilton is doping or that the new Pope is German. I mean it's simply unbelievab......................

Oh my God!!! News Flash!!!! The Pope is German? Dogs and cats are sleeping together?

Isn't anyone sick of this discussion?

 

[Chris_E]

yep. In a few months Lance and his drug use will be history, thank God

Mind you a no holds barred exopse of Mr Ferrari's time with USPS would make interesting reading.

 

[meehs]

yep. In a few months Lance and his drug use will be history, thank God

Mind you a no holds barred exopse of Mr Ferrari's time with USPS would make interesting reading.

Out of curiousity, do you contend that your "idol" (over there to the left, pictured in your avatar) rides clean? Just wondering.

 

[armydog]

I don't even know if anyone will read this post but I have to throw my 2 cents worth in.2 years ago I lost my wife of 15 years to cancer.She fought hard for 1 1/2 years before the fight became too much for her.ANYONE & I MEAN ANYONE WHO HAS FAMILY OR FRIENDS THAT HAVE FOUGHT CANCER SUCCESSFULLY OR IS FIGHTING THE FIGHT NOW CAN ATTEST TO THE ABSOLUTE REFUSAL OF THESE PEOPLE TO PUT ANYTHING INTO THIER BODY THAT COULD ADD TO THE DISEASE OR CAUSE A RELAPSE OF THE CONDITION!IF YOU BELIEVE LANCE IS DOPING YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!