"Doctor's orders" .. = ...death sentence?



H

Hanson

Guest
(1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
39,325 Food Contamination 9,100

(2) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The death
rate has fallen so sharply during the strike that the
Israeli funeral parlors and burial associations are
complaining.

(3) Whenever medical doctors go on strike, a most
interesting phenomenon occurs - death rates go down! In
1976 in Bogota, Columbia medical doctors went on strike
for 52 days, with only emergency care available. The
death rate dropped by 35%. In 1976 in Los Angeles County
a similar doctors' strike resulted in an 18% drop in
mortality. As soon as the strike was over, the death
rate went back to normal. A 50% decrease in mortality
was in Israel in 1973 when there was a one month
doctor's strike!

(4) http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/docstrike.htm
(5) http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/updates/47.asp.
Google: "doctors' strike" "death" "down". Results
in 654 hits

But the grand price goes to an unknown source (rep. by
nhoop) for his incisive analysis on DEATH by DOCTORS & GUNS:

== Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
= Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
:: 700'000/120,000 = Go to 6 doctors and you had it.
:: 120'000/700'000 = every 6th Doc kills someone each year
Accidental deaths per physician... 0.171 Now compare that
to:
== Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
= Number of accidental gun deaths/yr (all age groups) 1,500.
:: 80'000'000/1'500 = Shoot 53'300 guns and you get
:: killed. 15'00/80 million = only every hundred
:: thousandth shot kills.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188

So, statistically, 0.171/0.0000188 = 9143, which means that

**Drs are 9,000 times+ more dangerous than gun owners**

Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one
doctor. Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.
We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a
public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on
lawyers, for fear that the shock could cause people to seek
medical aid. However, you may want to to get a gun for
yourself...just in case you see a doctor approaching.
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
> Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
> 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
>
> (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
> death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
> that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
> associations are complaining.
>
> (2) Whenever medical doctors go on strike, a most
> interesting phenomenon occurs - death rates go down!
> In 1976 in Bogota, Columbia medical doctors went on
> strike for 52 days, with only emergency care
> available. The death rate dropped by 35%. In 1976 in
> Los Angeles County a similar doctors' strike resulted
> in an 18% drop in mortality. As soon as the strike was
> over, the death rate went back to normal. A 50%
> decrease in mortality was in Israel in 1973 when there
> was a one month doctor's strike!
>
> (1) http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/docstrike.htm
> (2) http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/updates/47.asp.
> Google: "doctors' strike" "death" "down". Results in
> 654 hits
>
> But the grand price goes to an unknown source (rep.
> by nhoop) for his incisive analysis on DEATH by
> DOCTORS & GUNS:
>
> == Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
> = Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year:
> = 120,000.
> :: 700'000/120,000 = Go to 6 doctors and you had it.
> :: 120'000/700'000 = every 6th Doc kills someone each year
> Accidental deaths per physician... 0.171 Now compare
> that to:
> == Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
> = Number of accidental gun deaths/yr (all age groups)
> = 1,500.
> :: 80'000'000/1'500 = Shoot 53'300 guns and you get
> :: killed. 15'00/80 million = only every hundred
> :: thousandth shot kills.
> Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188
>
> So, statistically, 0.171/0.0000188 = 9143, which
> means that
>
> **Drs are 9,000 times+ more dangerous than gun owners**

Statistically you would have to go by the number of patients
seen by the Doctors per year!

>
> Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one
> doctor. Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.
> We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a
> public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on
> lawyers, for fear that the shock could cause people to
> seek medical aid. However, you may want to to get a gun
> for yourself...just in case you see a doctor approaching.

In Colorado, you have the problem of other Doctors on the
Board of Review doing nothing to punish Doctors who make
mistake after mistake:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E31110%257E2-
001751,00.html

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2003225,00.h-
tml
 
in article [email protected], hanson at
[email protected] wrote on 3/8/04 7:32 AM:

> (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
> Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
> 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
>
> (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
> death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
> that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
> associations are complaining.

In some cases, staying alive can be a worse fate than
death. I am facing something like that right now. My guess
is that that is whay so many people suffering from
depression commit suicide.

I am going to have an operation to relieve hydrocephalus. I
am willing to take my chances with the surgery. Before what
I believe to be the correct diagnosis, I was diagnosed with
depression. At times it feels that life would be better
after death.

While I can sit at my computer and type away without
worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon
as I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I
have problems.

Bill
 
"Repeating Rifle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC720B75.FA37%[email protected]...
> in article
> [email protected],
> hanson at [email protected] wrote on 3/8/04 7:32 AM:
>
> > (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
> > Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
> > 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
> >
> > (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
> > death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
> > that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
> > associations are complaining.
>
> In some cases, staying alive can be a worse fate than
> death. I am facing something like that right now. My guess
> is that that is whay so many people suffering from
> depression commit suicide.
>
> I am going to have an operation to relieve hydrocephalus.
> I am willing to take my chances with the surgery. Before
> what I believe to be the correct diagnosis, I was
> diagnosed with depression. At times it feels that life
> would be better after death.
>
> While I can sit at my computer and type away without
> worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon as
> I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I have
> problems. Bill
>
Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest, heart
felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a speed
recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to *your*
satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your situation.
There may be posters here that are/have suffered form the
same or similar malady and they may have good first hand
advice for you. Take care, Bill. hanson
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:...
> "Repeating Rifle" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:BC720B75.FA37%[email protected]...
> > in article
> > [email protected],
> > hanson at [email protected] wrote on 3/8/04 7:32 AM:
> >
> > > (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse
> > > Drug Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile
> > > Accidents 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
> > >
> > > (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
> > > death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
> > > that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
> > > associations are complaining.
> >
> > In some cases, staying alive can be a worse fate than
> > death. I am facing something like that right now. My
> > guess is that that is whay so many people suffering from
> > depression commit suicide.
> >
> > I am going to have an operation to relieve
> > hydrocephalus. I am willing to take my chances with the
> > surgery. Before what I believe to be the correct
> > diagnosis, I was diagnosed with depression. At times it
> > feels that life would be better after death.
> >
> > While I can sit at my computer and type away without
> > worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon
> > as I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I
> > have problems. Bill
> >
> Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
> heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a
> speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to
> *your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
> situation. There may be posters here that are/have
> suffered form the same or similar malady and they may have
> good first hand advice for you. Take care, Bill. hanson

An encore, Bill: You say: "I was diagnosed with
depression". Yo, Bill, have they loaded you up with Anti-
inflammatory, steroid- and Nsaids, especially the
Prednisone type? If so (and generally anyway), go check the
web and the use net what experiences are posted about the
medications the quacks give you, before you swallow the
first pill. There's more than a 50/50 chance that your
depression maybe a result from the medications and not from
your condition. Some of the med-leaflets casually mention
it by saying in the tiny, fine-print: "May cause
psychiatric side effects" -- Good luck, dude.
 
> Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one
> doctor. Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.
> We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a
> public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on
> lawyers, for fear that the shock could cause people to
> seek medical aid. However, you may want to to get a gun
> for yourself...just in case you see a doctor approaching.

This is, of course, complete and utter ********. However, if
you really believe it, just don't go to a doctor. Ever. I,
for one, won't be missing you.
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
> Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
> 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
[snip....]

Google this: iatrogenic

And this: "morbidity and mortality"

As I saw it, 50K to 100K people a year in the USA die as a
result of "medical mistakes": http://www.kaisernetwork.org/-
health_cast/uploaded_files/she052401.pdf Or was that a bit
more: http://www.garynull.com/documents/iatrogenic/deathbym-
edicine/DeathByMedicine.pdf

But when a foreign dictator kills off undesirable elements
within his country using WMD supplied by the USA ... whooo
wheee ... it's election time and the issue is liberating
Muslim women, uh, I mean, homeland security.

Mark (... state function....)
 
Repeating Rifle wrote: [snip]

> I am going to have an operation to relieve hydrocephalus.
> I am willing to take my chances with the surgery. Before
> what I believe to be the correct diagnosis, I was
> diagnosed with depression. At times it feels that life
> would be better after death.

[snip]

It's no biggie. They implant a little silicone shunt with a
pressure valve that drains excess CNS into your lymph
system. It's done routinely in hydrocephalic kids and in the
elderly who are wearing out but still have lots of health
insurance to plunder. If you get massive headaches they may
have set the pressure too low.

Get a surgeon who has done lots of procedures. Ride your
pain meds while in the hospital, then knock it off ASAP
after release. Fun is fun, and addiction is something else.

--
Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe
for children and most mammals) "Quis custodiet ipsos
custodes?" The Net!
 
Repeating Rifle <[email protected]> wrote:

>In some cases, staying alive can be a worse fate than
>death. I am facing something like that right now. My guess
>is that that is whay so many people suffering from
>depression commit suicide.
>
>I am going to have an operation to relieve hydrocephalus. I
>am willing to take my chances with the surgery. Before what
>I believe to be the correct diagnosis, I was diagnosed with
>depression. At times it feels that life would be better
>after death.
>
>While I can sit at my computer and type away without
>worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon as
>I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I have
>problems.

Bill,

Best wishes for an uneventful procedure and a quick and
full recovery.

Don't even THINK about nasty alternatives ... we need
you here too much. You're one of only a half-dozen or so
who post interesting things (lucid and not homework) to
these NGs.

Keep on plugging. Get well soon. Please.

Steve Turner
 
On 2004-03-08 20:03:47 -0500, [email protected] (Mark Tarka) said:

> "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<_l03c.-
> [email protected]>...
>> (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
>> Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
>> 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100
> [snip....]
>
> Google this: iatrogenic
>
> And this: "morbidity and mortality"
>
> As I saw it, 50K to 100K people a year in the USA die as a
> result of "medical mistakes":

Maybe the real problem is that really can decide on the
definition of "mistake."

Try walking a mile in *my* shoes, bud. I dare you.
 
in article [email protected], hanson at
[email protected] wrote on 3/8/04 12:12 PM:

> Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
> heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a
> speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to
> *your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
> situation. There may be posters here that are/have
> suffered form the same or similar malady and they may have
> good first hand advice for you. Take care, Bill. hanson

I appreciate your concern. From what I zsee, I think that
hydrocephalus is underdiagnosed. In this area, I have seen
many old people, now dead, walk around as if they are
walking on flypaper resulting in sticking feet. Although
that bothers me, the worst part is not being able to do the
simplie arithmetic and logic to fill out my income tax form
last year and this year as well. This also means that
scientific calculation is very difficult.

Bill
 
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:12:44 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Repeating Rifle" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:BC720B75.FA37%[email protected]...
>>
>> I am going to have an operation to relieve hydrocephalus.
>> I am willing to take my chances with the surgery. Before
>> what I believe to be the correct diagnosis, I was
>> diagnosed with depression. At times it feels that life
>> would be better after death.
>>
>> While I can sit at my computer and type away without
>> worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon
>> as I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I have
>> problems. Bill
>>
>Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
>heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a
>speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to
>*your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
>situation.

Now, "hanson," why didn't you advise him to skip the
operation and avoid doctors at all costs? Or would you
rather admit you're just spewing ********?

PF
 
"PF Riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Repeating Rifle" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >message news:BC720B75.FA37%[email protected]...
> >> I am going to have an operation to relieve
> >> hydrocephalus. I am willing to take my chances with the
> >> surgery. Before what I believe to be the correct
> >> diagnosis, I was diagnosed with depression. At times it
> >> feels that life would be better after death.
> >>
> >> While I can sit at my computer and type away without
> >> worrying greatly about whether I make mistakes, as soon
> >> as I try physical activity or analytical thinking, I
> >> have problems. Bill
> >>
> >Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
> >heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a
> >speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to
> >*your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
> >situation.
>
> Now, "hanson," why didn't you advise him to skip the
> operation and avoid doctors at all costs? Or would you
> rather admit you're just spewing ********? PF
>
ahahahaha...What exactly cranks you and why should I, Reily?
You seem to have not hydro-, but big time ethanolocephalus.
Go to bed........ahahahaha.....ahahaha......ahahahanson
 
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 06:32:28 GMT, "hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"PF Riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
>> >heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a
>> >speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out to
>> >*your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
>> >situation.
>>
>> Now, "hanson," why didn't you advise him to skip the
>> operation and avoid doctors at all costs? Or would you
>> rather admit you're just spewing ********? PF
>>
>ahahahaha...What exactly cranks you and why should I,
>Reily? You seem to have not hydro-, but big time
>ethanolocephalus. Go to
>bed........ahahahaha.....ahahaha......ahahahanson

Uh, idiot, because at the beginning of this thread you
claimed that doctors kill people, declared that we must "ban
doctors," and suggested shooting doctors who come near you.
Then you do an about face and give your best wishes to
someone about to undergo surgery.

You're a moron. As they say, "Everyone hates lawyers until
they need one." Same goes for doctors, too, for you at
least, I guess.

PF
 
"PF Riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message \
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 06:32:28 GMT, "hanson"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"PF Riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>hanson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hey, Bill, that truely sucks, dude. Have my sincerest,
> >> >heart felt, best wishes for an uneventful surgery and
> >> >a speed recovery. I hope that everything will turn out
> >> >to *your* satisfaction. Now, keep us posted about your
> >> >situation.
> >>
> >> Now, "hanson," why didn't you advise him to skip the
> >> operation and avoid doctors at all costs? Or would you
> >> rather admit you're just spewing ********? PF
> >>
> >ahahahaha...What exactly cranks you and why should I,
> >Reily? You seem to have not hydro-, but big time
> >ethanolocephalus. Go to
> >bed........ahahahaha.....ahahaha......ahahahanson
>
> Uh, idiot, because at the beginning of this thread you
> claimed that doctors kill people, declared that we must
> "ban doctors," and suggested shooting doctors who come
> near you. Then you do an about face and give your best
> wishes to someone about to undergo surgery. You're a
> moron. As they say, "Everyone hates lawyers until they
> need one." Same goes for doctors, too, for you at least, I
> guess. PF
>
......ahahaha.........so, you had your fill again, Riley,
and I riled you up again. Yeah, it is known that when
people get gassed, like you are, they do become
hypersensitive, like you are. So, my dear daily binger
Riley, I can't help it if you read things into a post that
you do not quite understand & much less comprehend. But
perhaps a reduction in your daily EtOH consumption will
lessen the impact and consequences of your
ethanolocephalitic condition. *** The EtOH-Lord may bless
you and shine upon you, Riley*** Go to bed now, patient
Riley........ahahahaha.....ahahaha...... hanson, Samaritan,
administering to spirituosely impaired souls.
 
>> (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
>> death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
>> that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
>> associations are complaining.
>>
>> (2) Whenever medical doctors go on strike, a most
>> interesting phenomenon occurs - death rates go down!
>
[...]
> What I would like to see is a breakdown of the mortality
> causes before, during, and after the doctors' strikes.

Indeed, although I don't like to see medical incompetence
covered up or protected, hanson's original statistics and
stories leave out a few details.

When docs are on strike, elective - which aren't always safe
- surgeries on sick and healthy patients are delayed or
moved to another venue so they die from the liposuction on
somebody else's turf.

When there are emergencies, ambulances are directed to
alternative facilities so patients die at somebody
else's ER.

Although I can't think of an actual recent example, I've
read about some places making plans to move high risk
patients to other hospitals in the event of a strike. Move
your ICU to another hospital and they become somebody else's
statistic.

When all you're left with are scraped knees and telling
people to go someplace else or come back when the strike is
over, your stats improve.

Without knowing how the original stats were assembled, I
don't know which, if any, of the above apply.

And to Repeating Rifle, Good luck with whatever treatment
you choose. I hope you get better soon.


--
Sent by xanadoof from yahoo part from com This is a spam
protected message. Please answer with reference header.
Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com
 
"hanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> (1) Some Annual causes of death in the US: Adverse Drug
> Reactions ~120,000, compare to: Automobile Accidents
> 39,325 Food Contamination 9,100

Heart disease 709,894 Cancer 551,833 Cerebrovascular 166,028
Pulmonary 123,550

Maybe going to a doctor still has some redeeming value.

Mark Folsom
 
What I would like to see is a breakdown of the mortality
causes before, during, and after the doctors' strikes. I
have no doubt that some doctors are truly dangerous to their
patients. On the other hand, it is not clear to me if what
is being shown is the risks of treatment showing up earlier
than they would without intervention.

In my case, and I am not seeking sympathy, I could avoid
iatrogenic risk by not seeking treatment. That woujld make
doctors look better but I would be more miserable.

Put it another way. If you could live forever, but you would
have to spend all your time while not eating, sleeping, or
the like driving through city rush hour traaffic, what would
you choose?

Bill
 
"On Strike" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:l.1078989972.1430816650@dyn-129-64-56-
229.biochem.brandeis.edu... [hanson]
> >> (1) In 2000 there was a doctors strike in Israel. The
> >> death rate has fallen so sharply during the strike
> >> that the Israeli funeral parlors and burial
> >> associations are complaining.
> >>
> >> (2) Whenever medical doctors go on strike, a most
> >> interesting phenomenon occurs - death rates go
> >> down!
> >
> [...]

[some poster]
> > What I would like to see is a breakdown of the mortality
> > , causes before during, and after the doctors' strikes.
>
[On strike]
> Indeed, although I don't like to see medical incompetence
> covered up or protected, hanson's original statistics and
> stories leave out a few details.
>

[hanson] "a few" ?.........A lot of very pertinent data was
left out. I didn't even put the data together myself. This
was all old reposted stuff. I started this post to make a
point and not to have a clinical safety discussion over the
current state of the art of medicine.

The point is: THAT THIS IS HOW MEDICINE IS PERCEIVED BY THE
PUBLIC THESE DAYS: --> Very high cost, yet no assurance of
getting guaranteed care, much less one's health back. Hell,
Drs. can't even cure the common cold. All we "potential
patients" see are the Drs. BMW's in the parking lot and
every 2nd day a promo on TV about the miracles of medicine
separating twins born with deformities, or reports of
phantastic recoveries from battle field wounds, yet when we
run to the doctors with an allergy they are doing good old
guess work, ....lost .....sheesh.. I must have struck a
nerve somewhere. I gotta do more of
this....ahahahahah.........ahahahaha.......ahahahanson

[On strike]
> When docs are on strike, elective - which aren't always
> safe - surgeries on sick and healthy patients are delayed
> or moved to another venue so they die from the liposuction
> on somebody else's turf.
>
> When there are emergencies, ambulances are directed to
> alternative facilities so patients die at somebody
> else's ER.
>
> Although I can't think of an actual recent example, I've
> read about some places making plans to move high risk
> patients to other hospitals in the event of a strike. Move
> your ICU to another hospital and they become somebody
> else's statistic.
>
> When all you're left with are scraped knees and telling
> people to go someplace else or come back when the strike
> is over, your stats improve.
>
> Without knowing how the original stats were assembled, I
> don't know which, if any, of the above apply.
>
> And to Repeating Rifle, Good luck with whatever treatment
> you choose. I hope you get better soon.
 
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