Dods on Strding Edge - longish moan

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Steve Tipper, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. Steve Tipper

    Steve Tipper Guest

    Hi all

    I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    taking Dogs along there.

    As it happened, near the end pinacles at the col before the rise up to
    Helvellyn a dog fell about 30 ft (a weineramer... (I think thats how you
    spell it)
    It looked like he had a dislocated leg and a few cuts and bruises.

    Now the guy had not got a chance of getting that dog down... someone rang
    mountain rescue and the tale goes on (sorry for the pun)

    But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.

    Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...

    Sorry its so long winded.

    Steve
     
    Tags:


  2. theo

    theo Guest

    "Steve Tipper" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi all
    >
    > I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    > taking Dogs along there.
    >
    > As it happened, near the end pinacles at the col before the rise up to
    > Helvellyn a dog fell about 30 ft (a weineramer... (I think thats how you
    > spell it)


    It's a Weimaraner (like in the Weimar Republic)

    > It looked like he had a dislocated leg and a few cuts and bruises.


    Cruelty to animals IMO.
    Dogs are built for walking, not for scrambling. But I must admit some dogs
    can even climb. Like our German Shepherd dog/Galgo(=Spanish windhound)
    crossbreed who can climb up to two metres high in a tree when she tries to
    catch a cat. The cat looks as puzzled as my real German Shepherddog :)

    >
    > Now the guy had not got a chance of getting that dog down... someone rang
    > mountain rescue and the tale goes on (sorry for the pun)
    >
    > But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    > scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.
    >
    > Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...


    Should they be charged for rescueing kids, old people, ill-prepared walkers,
    tourists, experienced climbers that make stupid mistakes ? Dunno, but the
    hills would be less crowded ;-)

    >
    > Sorry its so long winded.


    You haven't seen the reaction of 'The One Who Has Returned' yet ;-))

    Theo
     
  3. Steve Tipper wrote:
    > Hi all
    >
    > I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    > taking Dogs along there.
    >
    > As it happened, near the end pinacles at the col before the rise up to
    > Helvellyn a dog fell about 30 ft (a weineramer... (I think thats how you
    > spell it)
    > It looked like he had a dislocated leg and a few cuts and bruises.
    >
    > Now the guy had not got a chance of getting that dog down... someone rang
    > mountain rescue and the tale goes on (sorry for the pun)
    >
    > But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    > scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.
    >
    > Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...
    >
    > Sorry its so long winded.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >

    I see where you are coming from but dogs have been taken to the hills
    for ever and should one incident spoil it for the rest?
    It's worth remebering that one of the facts of life is that whatever you
    want to do, theres somebody who wants to stop you.
    Cheers
    Graham
     
  4. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    I suppose dogs are like people, some are up to it and some are not!

    I've seen dogs up on the moors and edges in winter shivering, and I think
    it's cruel. A domestic dog just isn't built for that kind of thing!

    Responsibility rests with the owner, as always. I would report him to the
    RSPCA and let them investigate if I had witnessed something like that. That
    will shame most people into thinking in future.

    I don't think Mountain Rescue should charge for their services because they
    themselves don't think it's a good idea and that's good enough for me!

    My 2p.

    Lewis
     
  5. Fran

    Fran Guest

    [email protected] said...
    > But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    > scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.


    Why ever not? Most dogs are far more surefooted than people and
    most dogs would probably enjoy themselves enormously in such a
    situation. The fact that one animal fell is only relevant if you
    think that children should be kept off the hills because they too
    might fall. Or people above the age of, say 80, for much the
    same reason.

    > Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...
    >

    In a way, yes I do. But then I also believe that all those who
    benefit from the emergency volunteer services (e.g. lifeboat,
    MRT) should be encouraged to give a hefty donation as soon as
    they can. I wouldn't support a fixed charge for callout, because
    that wouldn't be fair on those whose means didn't stretch that
    far; neither would it be very tactful to ask the executors of a
    fatality victim to pay a fee for a 'failed' rescue. I'd
    certainly be willing to show my financial support for an
    organisation wherein the volunteers had risked their own safety
    in favour of mine. Wouldn't you?
    --
    I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
    as a dire warning.
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon Guest

    Lewis <[email protected]> wrote
    >I suppose dogs are like people, some are up to it and some are not!
    >
    >I've seen dogs up on the moors and edges in winter shivering, and I think
    >it's cruel. A domestic dog just isn't built for that kind of thing!
    >

    We had a Border Collie bitch, and in winter we didn't have to worry
    about her - she revelled in cold wet weather, but we had to wrap up well
    to take her out! One snag was the way snow packed in between her
    paw pads and froze, and had to be removed from time to time.
    --
    Gordon
     
  7. Neil Pugh

    Neil Pugh Guest

    In message <[email protected]>, Steve Tipper
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Hi all
    >
    >I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    >taking Dogs along there.
    >

    My dog (Whiz the small terrier) has been up Striding Edge, Sharp Edge,
    Swirral Edge, etc on many occasions, Ben Nevis twice (once along the
    Carn Mor Dearg arrete). She climbed Sharp Edge only a few weeks ago and
    she's now 14, deaf, and her near vision seems a bit questionable. She
    needs a hand on the scrambly bits occasionally, but is less likely to
    fall than me, I suspect. The advantages of 4 wheel drive!

    Leave her behind? Not an option. She's been climbing since she was a
    pup. She goes mad when the tent comes out of the attic, and sits on my
    kit as I pack it to make sure she doesn't get left behind. I'm still
    seriously considering Aonach Eagach (sp?) with her!

    Regards
    --
    Neil Pugh
     
  8. Mike Clark

    Mike Clark Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Steve Tipper
    <URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
    > Hi all
    >
    > I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    > taking Dogs along there.
    >
    > As it happened, near the end pinacles at the col before the rise up to
    > Helvellyn a dog fell about 30 ft (a weineramer... (I think thats how you
    > spell it)
    > It looked like he had a dislocated leg and a few cuts and bruises.
    >
    > Now the guy had not got a chance of getting that dog down... someone rang
    > mountain rescue and the tale goes on (sorry for the pun)
    >
    > But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    > scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.
    >
    > Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...
    >
    > Sorry its so long winded.
    >
    > Steve
    >


    Have you never come across the National Search and Rescue Dog
    Association?

    <URL:http://www.nsarda.org.uk/>

    Search and rescue dogs are a relatively common sight in the mountains
    including in the Alps where they are used for avalanche search and
    rescue. They can be transported by helicopter and are trained to
    tolerate being winched into difficult locations.

    Search and Rescue Dogs start out as the ordinary pets of mountain
    rescuers which are then trained and selected for their abilities in the
    hills.

    Then there are the well known examples of the pets of Hamish Brown,
    several of which have accompanied him on complete rounds of the Munros
    of Scotland, including the Cuillen Ridge.

    Also what of the many hill farmers who round up sheep off of the high
    crags?

    I'm sure there are some dogs that are more suited to the hills than
    others, just as some people are more suited. I'm not convinced that you
    should try and legislate against this.

    Mike
    --
    o/ \\ // || ,_ o Mike Clark, "An antibody engineer who also
    <\__,\\ // __o || / /\, likes the mountains"
    "> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> | Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
    ` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>
     
  9. Michael S

    Michael S Guest

    Fran <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] said...
    > > But please tell me, do people really have to take a pet like this one a
    > > scramble ? there must be pet owners out there that do.

    >
    > Why ever not? Most dogs are far more surefooted than people and
    > most dogs would probably enjoy themselves enormously in such a
    > situation. The fact that one animal fell is only relevant if you
    > think that children should be kept off the hills because they too
    > might fall. Or people above the age of, say 80, for much the
    > same reason.


    Spot on Fran.

    I regularly take my dog up the fells, scrambling, walking, whatever.
    He's fallen less times than me and my dad put together. In fact he's
    fallen once, when he slipped on some icy rocks. He scratched himself a
    bit, but was enjoying the adventure so much that he hardly noticed,
    and jumped right back up again to carry on his trek with renewed
    vigour.

    People fall off mountains as well you know, but does that mean we
    should all be banned from taking to the hills? Although that dog
    fell, how many other dogs were successfully enjoying a day in the
    hills at that exact same time? I take my dog because he loves it -
    it's a treat for him. If he didn't enjoy it I wouldn't take him,
    because he would be a hinderance and a general pain in the butt.

    Talk of animal cruelty is ridiculous! If I take my dog for a walk
    down the street there's a chance he gets hit by a bus. If I throw a
    stick into the lake for him to fetch there's a chance he'll drown.
    But does that make me cruel for doing so, especially when he enjoys
    all of the above?

    Cruelty would be leaving him at home to get fat, and get uncomfortably
    long claws, while I enjoyed a day walking. Or worse still, leaving
    him in a hot car in the car park.

    Let's take a reality check folks.

    > > Do you think you should be charged for the rescue etc...
    > >

    > In a way, yes I do. But then I also believe that all those who
    > benefit from the emergency volunteer services (e.g. lifeboat,
    > MRT) should be encouraged to give a hefty donation as soon as
    > they can.


    Ditto. My dad used to be in the Lake District mountain rescue, and I
    know for a fact he'd be more annoyed at having to go out to rescue
    some muppet that was in trouble because he was
    ill-prepared/inexperienced than going to help a dog that had slipped
    or fallen by accident.

    Michael S
     
  10. Geoff Berrow

    Geoff Berrow Guest

    I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]> from
    Gordon contained the following:

    >We had a Border Collie bitch, and in winter we didn't have to worry
    >about her - she revelled in cold wet weather, but we had to wrap up well
    >to take her out! One snag was the way snow packed in between her
    >paw pads and froze, and had to be removed from time to time.


    They are very well adapted for the cold with a two layer coat. I also
    like the way my dog's coat crinkles when damp, increasing the amount of
    air it will trap.

    I also understand from a biologist friend that they have a clever
    arrangement of veins and arteries to keep paws warm.

    Good to see so many positive comments about dogs and agree
    wholeheartedly. Walk without him? Never!

    http://www.ckdog.co.uk/pics/bakewell 022.jpg

    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/
     
  11. John Gardner

    John Gardner Guest

    >Ditto. My dad used to be in the Lake District mountain rescue, and I
    >know for a fact he'd be more annoyed at having to go out to rescue
    >some muppet that was in trouble because he was
    >ill-prepared/inexperienced than going to help a dog that had slipped
    >or fallen by accident.


    Our team has been called out a few times in the last few years to help dogs,
    and have always attended quite happily. In fact, dogs tend to be more grateful
    than the humans we help.

    I remember a few years back going climbing with the YHA warden from Conistone
    Copper Mines, and his bitch "Skye" managed a Diff, albeit with a little
    enouragement, and she loved it. Mind you, she did have a full body harness on.

    I took out now-deceased sheltie up Jack's Rake with no problems, and I rarely
    go onto the local moors go out without my now middle-aged border collie whose
    knowledge of the local geoography and instinct for direction means I never need
    map, compass or GPS unit even in the most inclement of conditions.

    John
    ---
    John Gardner
    Caving Routes in the Northern Pennines: http://braemoor.co.uk/cavingtrip
    A Walking Guide to Chartreuse: http://braemoor.co.uk/chartreuse
     
  12. On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:29:22 +0100, Steve Tipper wrote:

    > Hi all
    >
    > I was along striding edge yesterday (sunday) and was amazed to see people
    > taking Dogs along there.
    >
    > As it happened, near the end pinacles at the col before the rise up to
    > Helvellyn a dog fell about 30 ft (a weineramer... (I think thats how you
    > spell it)
    > It looked like he had a dislocated leg and a few cuts and bruises.
    >
    > Now the guy had not got a chance of getting that dog down... someone rang
    > mountain rescue and the tale goes on (sorry for the pun)
    >

    Sounds like mountain rescue were busy up there on Sunday:
    <http://www.thisisthelakedistrict.co.uk/display.var.525116.0.hiker_dies_on_helvellyn.php>

    Also, on striding edge on Sunday, man fell 100 metres. Some of the mountain
    rescue members were already on the mountain for a charity event.
     
  13. W. D. Grey

    W. D. Grey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Graham Bowers
    <[email protected]> writes
    >I see where you are coming from but dogs have been taken to the hills
    >for ever and should one incident spoil it for the rest?


    No more St Bernards with their barrels of brandy - sad !
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk
     
  14. In message <[email protected]>
    nickl <[email protected]> wrote:

    <dogs>
    >
    > Never forget that, they don't have mobile phones that trill away, they
    > don't have exessively loud voices, they don't litter the summit area
    > with beer cans and mars wrappers and they very rarely get into trouble
    > on the hills which is a lot more than can be said for the many
    > ill-equipped tourists that hit the hills in the summer.


    But one minute they can be running around on top of the ridge, the next
    half way back down the valley, in the time it takes you to get up another
    hundred feet. Going walking with very fit people is soul destroying
    enough, but dogs really make you feel inadequate!

    --
    Simon Challands
     
  15. Jhimmy

    Jhimmy Guest

    >
    > But one minute they can be running around on top of the ridge, the next
    > half way back down the valley, in the time it takes you to get up another
    > hundred feet. Going walking with very fit people is soul destroying
    > enough, but dogs really make you feel inadequate!
    >
    > --
    > Simon Challands


    My sister had a Cocker Spaniel, you just couldn't wear the thing out no
    matter how many times you throw a ball downhill, she always raced back to
    hand it to you!

    Jhimmy
     
  16. nickl <[email protected]> writes:

    >Simon Challands Wrote:
    >> In message [email protected]
    >> nickl [email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >> dogs-
    >>
    >> Never forget that, they don't have mobile phones that trill away,
    >> they
    >> don't have exessively loud voices, they don't litter the summit area
    >> with beer cans and mars wrappers and they very rarely get into
    >> trouble
    >> on the hills which is a lot more than can be said for the many
    >> ill-equipped tourists that hit the hills in the summer.-
    >>
    >> But one minute they can be running around on top of the ridge, the
    >> next
    >> half way back down the valley, in the time it takes you to get up
    >> another
    >> hundred feet. Going walking with very fit people is soul destroying
    >> enough, but dogs really make you feel inadequate!


    >Agreed!


    >I have enlisted the help of a trained councillor to deal with this.


    >He said that I need to keep things in context. And whilst I might only
    >cover 10-15 miles and a couple of thousand metres of ascent in a day the
    >fact that he covers about 30-40 miles and 4000m of ascent means that the
    >canine fool will not live nearly as long as me. Thus I will have the
    >last laugh.


    So how much do you shorten your life by each 1,000m of ascent?

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
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