Does a good carbon frame last longer than Aluminum?

[alienator]

Careful. You'll get the Missoura Mechanic all worked up, and he'll have to get out his bona fides. Like how he hints he done seen it all, worked on it all, and knows the low down on what's what? Yup. He got links a plenty....and y'all know that there internet thing is all full of facts. Why he's a master of all things....that's how cum he knows what's what with that there carbon fiber.

Just listen folks: there was that one "CF manufacturer", then there was that other manufacturer. Of course, then, there was that OTHER manufacturer.....he's got links.

Now don't y'all start thinkin' that a manufacturin' problem is a design problem. No siree, Bob. Nope: that there is a material problem. Just ask the ol' Ozark Nut Rounder. See, cuz he knows the difference, cuz well, ain't y'all seen his bona fides? Shucks, ol' Mr. Merckx is lucky he won a single race, what with since the ol' Nut Rounder from the Ozarks weren't tendin' to his steeds.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Careful. You'll get the Missoura Mechanic all worked up, and he'll have to get out his bona fides. Like how he hints he done seen it all, worked on it all, and knows the low down on what's what? Yup. He got links a plenty....and y'all know that there internet thing is all full of facts. Why he's a master of all things....that's how cum he knows what's what with that there carbon fiber.

Just listen folks: there was that one "CF manufacturer", then there was that other manufacturer. Of course, then, there was that OTHER manufacturer.....he's got links.

Now don't y'all start thinkin' that a manufacturin' problem is a design problem. No siree, Bob. Nope: that there is a material problem. Just ask the ol' Ozark Nut Rounder. See, cuz he knows the difference, cuz well, ain't y'all seen his bona fides? Shucks, ol' Mr. Merckx is lucky he won a single race, what with since the ol' Nut Rounder from the Ozarks weren't tendin' to his steeds.

Yer one lil' worked up grad student, aincha? Is daddy's check late this month?

Can you show where I _ever_ said poor alignment in CF frames was a material problem, poseur? TIA!

 

[alienator]

Yer one lil' worked up grad student, aincha? Is daddy's check late this month?

Can you show where I _ever_ said poor alignment in CF frames was a material problem, poseur? TIA!

Who's the poseur? You, right? And I'm not worked up. I'm giggling, 'cuz you're one funny yahoo. I am impressed that you were able to find your way to a public profile, though. But jeez, you oughta learn that us grad students don't need Daddy's money: we get paid, Billy Bob.

Ooo.oooo. oooooo. Tell us 'bout yer bona fides, Billy Bob. I know yer just anxious to do that. C'mon, dagnabbit. You been teasin' us 'bout bona fides, links, facts, and all that super duper knowledge stuff you got, so how about lettin' us in on it, good buddy?

 

[::dom::]

Specialised are great frames from what i've read and heard.
...

Although looks are not everything, I'm not sure whether I could have put up with that curved top tube either (I'm sure many people find it attractive).

I was thinking Roubaix rather than Tarmac.

 

[hd reynolds]

What are some good carbon manufacturer's based on owner experience ,particularly good, stiff BBs?
Is carbon more durable than AL?

CF in theory has infinite fatigue life, but it is not unbreakable - although there is a difference between breakage and failure. The latter implies that a component is not strong enuf for the usual loads imposed on it, while the former is the result of excessive loading - a direct hit for example. If CF is involved with direct impact the CF and resin matrix may shatter under stress of the impact, leaving a jagged edge of frayed and broken fibers. Well design CF parts rarely 'fail' in the strict sense since like I said it has theoretically infinite fatigue life - but can appear to fail should partial breakage due to imapact damage go unnoticed. Even if individual fibers remain intact they may still pull away from the resin encasing them or delaminate. When this happens the damage may remain invisible while weakening the component enuf to leave it likely to to break suddenly under relatively light stress.

Aluminum may also fail or break. But unlike CF, aluminum [frames] involved with direct impact may just absorb it resulting in a dent. But having said that aluminum in theory does not bend as much as, say, steel. Because of this aluminum frame/component failure often occur abruptly. This may sometimes happen when the component is subjected to repetitive loading - usually developing a hairline crack overtime. In this aspect CF I think is more superior because CF absorbs repetitive loading far better than aluminum.

So going back to your question which one is more durable? Well assuming one does not encounter during use any direct hit on the component and is just subjected to normal or even hard riding use, I think CF will outlast an AL frame.

 

[sprocket3rtr]

Wow! carbon fiber reinforced PLASTIC! All this time I thought they use resin... damn bastards!

And all along I thought only LITTLE TYKES and STEP 1 made Plastic bicycle frames (including rims, seats, handlebars). Unfortunately they only make them in sizes to fit little people.

[and more open minds i think]

 

[mitosis]

I was thinking Roubaix rather than Tarmac.

Better looking than the Roubaix, IMO, but still the same problem with frame geometry in my size. I'd probably find a way to make it fit if someone gave me one tho'.

 

[crashnigley]

Do yourself a favor and try test riding a "real" CF frame - the LOOK 481SL or 585 in particular. These, in my opinion, are the benchmark against which all carbon frames should be measured. Yes, they are expemsive - that's because it takes at least 40 man hours to build a single frame! Parlee and Time also make very high quality products. Lot's of folks like Calfee but I have seen them fail more than once - and thy're kinda fugly IMHO.

Good luck.

 

[jhuskey]

Do yourself a favor and try test riding a "real" CF frame - the LOOK 481SL or 585 in particular. These, in my opinion, are the benchmark against which all carbon frames should be measured. Yes, they are expemsive - that's because it takes at least 40 man hours to build a single frame! Parlee and Time also make very high quality products. Lot's of folks like Calfee but I have seen them fail more than once - and thy're kinda fugly IMHO.

Good luck.

I have ridden a Look for several years and loved it ,but I am very impressed with the Fondriest frame I am riding now.
I vote that Fondriest is also a quality frame and should not be overlook when considering a carbon frame.

 

[crashnigley]

I have ridden a Look for several years and loved it ,but I am very impressed with the Fondriest frame I am riding now.
I vote that Fondriest is also a quality frame and should not be overlook when considering a carbon frame.

I've heard they are great - how would you compare to the Look 481sl?

 

[mitosis]

Do yourself a favor and try test riding a "real" CF frame - the LOOK 481SL or 585 in particular. These, in my opinion, are the benchmark against which all carbon frames should be measured. Yes, they are expemsive - that's because it takes at least 40 man hours to build a single frame! Parlee and Time also make very high quality products. Lot's of folks like Calfee but I have seen them fail more than once - and thy're kinda fugly IMHO.

Good luck.

So how do you determine a real carbon frame? Lugs or mono? Place of manufacture? The lay of the fibre? What the pros ride? How they look? Your opinion? Weight? Whether the tubes are designed for that frame?

 

[jhuskey]

I've heard they are great - how would you compare to the Look 481sl?

I can't truly compare a 481 since I have never owned one but in comparison to a 261 the Fondriest climbs just as well is about the same weight and may have a better feel on decents.
Very nice lines on the Fondriest, but that of course is a matter of taste.

 

[Acrimony]

Ok, I'm only buying into this because there is more BS being said in here than in parliment. Here are the facts, dispute them as you like.

Carbon Fibre - Think of it like a piece of string, only has strength in one direction, in tension ie pulling on each end. you push on it from any direction and it simply bends. Now technically carbon fibre itself does not fatigue, but a carbon frame is as much resin as it is carbon. And resin does fatigue. It fatigues at a linear rate ie. at gets worse at an increasing rate. This creates the feeling of a frame 'going soft'. The carbon itself as as strong as ever, but the resin breaks down, and slowely the carbon is going to get its 'piece of string' properties back. Resin also makes up the bulk of a frame weight, so when a manufacturer wants to make a lighter frame, they simply take out as much resin as possible.

Aluminium - AL also fatigues at a slightly linear rate, however the linear curve is a lot less severe than a carbon one (with resin). This means that a well made AL frame will outlast a caron frames, no questions. However, you need a well made frame. The problem is alot of AL manufacturers are trying to keep up with CF, so are making the frames too light, which obviously reduces their life span. AL frames also need to have oversize tubing, especially at the joints as due to its properties (AL can be torn) the joint surface area needs to be maximised.

Steel - steel fatigues at a constant rate (corrision ignored). This means steel has the longest life span of all three materials (in the first year, steel actually fatigues faster than AL and Carbon, but they soon catch up and pass it). Its down side is its weight, and corrosion. However, new processes are being developed, which will see the use of thin walled, oversized tubing, AL style, which should bring the weight down. They just need to be coated to stop corrosion eating through the thin wall.

So, my thoughts

If you want a superlight bike and will only have it for 1-2 yrs max, go Carbon
If you want a light bike that you can have for 5-7 years, AL. (but dont go the lightest)
And if you dont care about weight, and want a bike with the best road feel that will last longer than you can ever need it for, steel.

I personally ride and race on a full AL bike.

Let the arguments begin.

 

[clack3rz]

If you want a superlight bike and will only have it for 1-2 yrs max, go Carbon
If you want a light bike that you can have for 5-7 years, AL. (but dont go the lightest)
And if you dont care about weight, and want a bike with the best road feel that will last longer than you can ever need it for, steel.

I've juz bought a CF framed bike, and asked the question several times regarding life-span of CF and AL, and I was never told that CF would only last 1-2 yrs max.
Does this mean that the frame is rendered 'useless' after this life-span? It seems rather short for a material that is becoming more popular.

 

[mitosis]

I've juz bought a CF framed bike, and asked the question several times regarding life-span of CF and AL, and I was never told that CF would only last 1-2 yrs max.
Does this mean that the frame is rendered 'useless' after this life-span? It seems rather short for a material that is becoming more popular.

There is no evidence to show that c frames lose their sting after 2 years. There is plenty of evidence to show the fatigue in Aluminium.

Enjoy your frame for many years.

 

[lks]

I don't know who the phuk you think you are but don't feel that you have to respond to my posts since you view me as an "azzhat".

I have about $3500.00 to spend on a new bike and I'm trying to decide if I should stick with steel or go AL or Carbon for that kind of $$, that's all.

It's just a forum for mental masturbation anyway. Get over yourself and have a nice croissant dipped in dogshit.

Where did you get the idea that this was a forum to jack off your brain?

 

[jhuskey]

I've juz bought a CF framed bike, and asked the question several times regarding life-span of CF and AL, and I was never told that CF would only last 1-2 yrs max.
Does this mean that the frame is rendered 'useless' after this life-span? It seems rather short for a material that is becoming more popular.

Yes they totally distengrate after 18 months and 29 days. I am riding on air which use to be a P4 Fondriest and it is much lighter now that it has slid into an interdementional plane.
My advise is to ride what you like and don't listen to pseudo scientists that have read more than they have ridden and start drinking more,you are taking this forum's advise and life way to seriously.

 

[DiabloScott]

I personally ride and race on a full AL bike.

Let the arguments begin.

Why did you dig up a thread that was 10 months old? Were you googling for arguments?

PS, BS

 

[clack3rz]

Yes they totally distengrate after 18 months and 29 days. I am riding on air which use to be a P4 Fondriest and it is much lighter now that it has slid into an interdementional plane.
My advise is to ride what you like and don't listen to pseudo scientists that have read more than they have ridden and start drinking more,you are taking this forum's advise and life way to seriously.

I did think that this was the case (the life span was alot longer). I don't take forum's advice (and life!) too seriously, but I do (as do many other peeps) use these forums to reference, compare and take advice from others to help them understand, learn more about this topic.
But thanks for the advice

 

[lks]

What are some good carbon manufacturer's based on owner experience ,particularly good, stiff BBs?
Is carbon more durable than AL?

Never kept a bike long enough to find out, but I have always transferred my Cinelli RAM integrated carbon bar/stem to each bike I have built up. It now has over 25,000 miles and checks out like new. Even though I went down hard enough to crack a Giro helmut one time and break my hip the next. Would aluminum withstand that? I don't know, but you can ask George Hincapie, his aluminum steerer tube was 1 & 1/8" O.D. with an almost 3mm wall thickness, when it fractured in half. It wasn't hanging out in the air like my bars, but was inside his frame.