does a light bike equal more speed for a heavy rider?



Hi

I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.

I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
£2,000.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks
Ray
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a
> faster speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An
> increase of less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really
> haven't a clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend
> up to £2,000.
>


In a word - no. A few kgs won't make much difference to you.
But if you want to increase your cycling efforts, then buy a good bike.
Maybe a bike and some spare wheels ;)

--
Mike
 
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:30:24 -0500, "mb" <[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
>> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>>
>> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
>> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
>> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
>> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
>> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a
>> faster speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An
>> increase of less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really
>> haven't a clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend
>> up to £2,000.
>>

>
>In a word - no. A few kgs won't make much difference to you.
>But if you want to increase your cycling efforts, then buy a good bike.
>Maybe a bike and some spare wheels ;)


You think that a good bike, with a good fit, clipless pedals, narrower
tires and a stiffer, more responsive frame would not make a difference?

Might be a psychological boost too.

Thing is, if you get an improvement you have to continue to work hard and
eat right and get plenty of rest to keep that improvement.

Otherwise climbing speed tends to drift back down in a few weeks. For one
thing with a lighter bike you may not be doing as much work with a lighter
bike.

2 cents
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a
> faster speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An
> increase of less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really
> haven't a clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend
> up to £2,000.


The weight difference of a better bike will make little difference to you
directly (I won't guess a figure), but an improvement in handling and
responsiveness would add to the enjoyment enough to inspire you to cycle
further and more often. Your fitness and speed would then automatically
increase.

By the way, to make much of a difference to bike weight, you need to change
a lot more than the frame -- though a better frame could be stiffer, meaning
less of your energy is wasted.

~PB
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.


could be a good call.

a friend is 20st++. He had a normal mid-range MTB which he rode on a 12
mile round trip commute. The standard wheels went first so he had some
made, touring rims on disk hubs, and they've been indestructable. After
2 years the frame cracked, & the warranty claim was such a pain ....

he talked himself into a custom frame from Curtis (who make jump &
downhill MTB's). It's just been built around the components from his
dead MTB, and very fine it is too. Bit early to say whether it'll turn
him into an all weather bike riding nut, but he's got to do a lot of
trips to pay for it. ;o)

> I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect?


not really. 20st = 280lbs. A 25lb bike versus a 35lb bike makes 3%
difference, so at 8mph you wouldnt get 1/2mph from weight efficiency gains.

You might get 1/2mph from better engineering & less loss to flex etc.

The biggest gain in nice bikes is, they're just nicer to ride, mortals
who can be distracted from riding will want to go out more on a fun bike
they enjoy using. :)

Phil
 
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
> £2,000.
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome.


You don't get much speed from a light bike, as what counts is bike+rider,
but the 'feel' is a lot different. When you stomp down on the pedals you
can feel the difference between a light and heavy bike - the lighter one
seems to surge ahead more noticeably than the heavier one. Until your body
drags it back :)
 
On 12 Oct 2006 21:37:05 GMT, Mark Thompson
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote:

>> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
>> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>>
>> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
>> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
>> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
>> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
>> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
>> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
>> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
>> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
>> £2,000.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be welcome.

>
>You don't get much speed from a light bike, as what counts is bike+rider,
>but the 'feel' is a lot different. When you stomp down on the pedals you
>can feel the difference between a light and heavy bike - the lighter one
>seems to surge ahead more noticeably than the heavier one. Until your body
>drags it back :)


I've promised myself that when I do my first 15km ride at >30km/hr avg
speed that I'll get myself an under-20lb bike.

I'm getting close breaking 28km/hr avg speed this summer on the flats for
that distance.

I know, it's kinda silly, but hey, it's a carrot. ;-)
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Hi

I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.

I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
£2,000.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

_________________________________________________________________

Have you thought about losing weight first? I was thinking along similar
lines to you, and although not so heavy, decided that I would first get rid
of the excess lbs on my frame before buying a lighter bike. That way, you
feel better physically and you will better appreciate the new bike.
Graham
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
> £2,000.
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome.


I'm sure a lighter bike does help a racer... but for us normal cyclists
maybe it helps a bit but I think there maybe better and cheaper ways to
improve your speed (I'm talking from my own experience and I'm no way an
expert!)

- A well tuned bike which is a joy to ride takes much less effort.
Riding a bike should be a silent affair... tyres should be pumped up to
the correct pressures etc. As an engineer drives me mad when a cyclist
goes past with flat tyres or scraping noises!

- Set yourself goals. Think of small goals that take a few minutes to
do... for example in the Tour de France stages, they get points for
climbs / speed trails then return back into normal racing. I apply
similar goals / methodology to my daily commute.

Sorry if this already applies to you, but I thought it might be useful
to those lurking!

Regards
Mark
 
in message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph.


A light bike will be much faster than a heavier one, especially in a
mountainous area. In my area which is hilly but not mountainous, I'm a lot
faster on my 8.5Kg carbon bike than on my roughly 12Kg steel one. I weight
13 stone, more or less (usually more); but I have a friend who is twenty
stone and experiences the same phenomenon.

> Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that?


Considerably better. For me it's the difference between averaging 13mph and
averaging almost 16mph. The lighter bike is also far nicer to ride.

I can't explain the difference in speed in terms of physics, because, as
you say, the weight of the bike is trivial compared to the weight of the
rider. But it's amazing the difference it makes.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Do not sail on uphill water.
- Bill Lee
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I've promised myself that when I do my first 15km ride at >30km/hr avg
> speed that I'll get myself an under-20lb bike.
>
> I'm getting close breaking 28km/hr avg speed this summer on the flats for
> that distance.
>
> I know, it's kinda silly, but hey, it's a carrot. ;-)
>


It's not silly, I have the similar goal.. to average over 30km/h on a
(flatish ride) for an hour ;o)

When I started cycling last year I averaged (on the flat) about 18km/h..
I've done an hours ride averaging just over 25km/h and looking for the
next target.

Currently on my commute I'm doing ~30km/h for 10 minutes or so, followed
by 10 minutes of ~22km/h (and then repeating the cycle). Hopefully those
spurts will start to extend and one day go for a full hour!
 
"graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UPyXg.126482$1T2.107349@pd7urf2no...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
> £2,000.
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Have you thought about losing weight first? I was thinking along similar
> lines to you, and although not so heavy, decided that I would first get
> rid of the excess lbs on my frame before buying a lighter bike. That way,
> you feel better physically and you will better appreciate the new bike.
> Graham

I'd plump for something like a Dawes Galaxy - being 21 stone an owning a
Galaxy I can vouch for its ability to cope with my bulk plus luggage and
still have a fair turn of speed. There'd be a lot of change left out of
£2000!

Lighter bikes willl aways give a faster speed but the the speed gain is not
that much. My average speed on my lighter road bike is only a couple of
miles an hour faster than that achieved by the Galaxy. The pair of bikes
cost me a grand total of £350 s/h

I did have problems with the rear wheels of both bikes. The Galaxy's rear
wheel had some spokes pull through the rim after several of them were
replaced after snapping. The road bike's rear wheel's spokes used to
slacken off regularly. Locktite solved the latter problem and Mavic 319, 36
hole rims laced to a Deore hub with 13swg plain gauge stainless steel spokes
sorted out the former problem.
 
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:35:02 +0100, mblewett <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> I've promised myself that when I do my first 15km ride at >30km/hr avg
>> speed that I'll get myself an under-20lb bike.
>>
>> I'm getting close breaking 28km/hr avg speed this summer on the flats for
>> that distance.
>>
>> I know, it's kinda silly, but hey, it's a carrot. ;-)
>>

>
>It's not silly, I have the similar goal.. to average over 30km/h on a
>(flatish ride) for an hour ;o)
>
>When I started cycling last year I averaged (on the flat) about 18km/h..
>I've done an hours ride averaging just over 25km/h and looking for the
>next target.
>
>Currently on my commute I'm doing ~30km/h for 10 minutes or so, followed
>by 10 minutes of ~22km/h (and then repeating the cycle). Hopefully those
>spurts will start to extend and one day go for a full hour!


I can already cruise at 29-35km/hr on a flat road. It's things like turning
around at the end of a road, stop lights and cornering that tend to drop me
down one or 2 km/hr.

One thing that I'm doing now is working on negative splits. If I ride
smart, and technically for the first half, then crank up the power on the
second half, I can push up the number more easily. OTOH, going out and
trying to maintain a certain speed, invariably I'll start to sag near the
end, even though I usually get it back enough to finish strong.

Another little trick is to go ride the difficult parts of the course and
get used to riding them at a higher than usual rate of speed. That way when
ride the whole course, as I reach the 'sticky parts', I'm cued in to riding
it at a brisk pace and I just click into that 'groove'; if that makes
sense. ;-)

So, do you have any particular bike in mind? I think Fuji has some nice
light rides for a decent price.

http://www.fujibikes.com/2006/bikes.asp?id=127

The Roubaix Pro comes in at 18.8lbs/8.47kg, Shimano 105/Ultegra mix. It's
listed at $1540US.

http://www.fujibikes.com/2006/bikes.asp?id=247

The RC is 17.4lbs/7.89kg, and is all Ultegra for just over $2000US.

Those are aluminum frames with carbon forks.

The all carbon bikes start at 18lbs/8.48kg, for about $2000US.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
> £2,000.
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks
> Ray


I'm guessing (and hope that it is true), that there would be more
effect with a lighter person)

Pushed my 20kg trekkie thing round for 40 miles yesterday (a personal
best, though records only start in late August). Was about it legwise,
decidedly wobbly when feet returned to terra firma. Can't help thinking
that 10kg off would have been a big help to a skinny bugger like me,
hence earlier thread about "whats on your bike".

Sums run something along the lines of :
20kg bike
70kg rider
10kg off is 11% off total weight and a whopping 50% off the deadweight.
And that has to make a difference on any gradient.

Not complaining as the primary aim at present is fitness, but I can
feel an expensive Christmas - or at least Spring - present to myself
coming on :O)
 
In article <[email protected]>
Mark W <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
> Pushed my 20kg trekkie thing round for 40 miles yesterday (a personal
> best, though records only start in late August). Was about it legwise,
> decidedly wobbly when feet returned to terra firma.


Did you eat anything during the ride?
 
Mark W wrote:
>
> Sums run something along the lines of :
> 20kg bike
> 70kg rider
> 10kg off is 11% off total weight and a whopping 50% off the deadweight.
> And that has to make a difference on any gradient.


Moving from a 20kg trekking bike to a 8-9kg road bike (or one of those
flat-bar road bikes) will feel like a massive difference. It's not just
the weight, it's position, stifness, tyres everything.

You will be faster.

--
Arthur Clune
 
Arthur Clune wrote:

> Moving from a 20kg trekking bike to a 8-9kg road bike (or one of those
> flat-bar road bikes) will feel like a massive difference. It's not just
> the weight, it's position, stifness, tyres everything.
>
> You will be faster.


Agreed. But you'll be a lot faster again if you lose a good number of
Kg from the load as well, though of course a nice bike is good
encouragement to do that.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark W wrote:
>>
>> Sums run something along the lines of :
>> 20kg bike
>> 70kg rider
>> 10kg off is 11% off total weight and a whopping 50% off the deadweight.
>> And that has to make a difference on any gradient.

>
> Moving from a 20kg trekking bike to a 8-9kg road bike (or one of those
> flat-bar road bikes) will feel like a massive difference. It's not just
> the weight, it's position, stifness, tyres everything.
>
> You will be faster.


And not just because of the physical reasons. The faster bike will encourage
you to put more effort in. So you may arrive back more puffed than on the
slower bike, but that's no bad thing!

cheers,
clive
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am thinking of buying a custom framed bike with Reynolds 853
> oversize. I have only ever had cheap bikes in the past.
>
> I am over 20 stone and I was wondering if this weight will prevent any
> speed gain from a light frame. I live in a mountainous area and my
> comfortable average speed is about 8 mph. I want to increase it in due
> course to 12 mph. Obviously this will require a considerable amount of
> training but I was wondering if the lighter bike would give me a faster
> speed for the same effort. If so, what could I expect? An increase of
> less than1/2mph or would it be better than that? I really haven't a
> clue, but it would be nice to have some idea before I spend up to
> £2,000.


Yeah - get a *good* bike, with gears that work
well, brakes that work well, the right size and shape
for you to sit and work confortably.

Weight is only one parameter of a good machine,
and not the most important one IMHO.

BugBear
 
I'm what I think is called the 'op'.

Many thanks for the broad range of suggestions which has given me
plenty of food for thought.

I should have mentioned in my original post that my current bike is a
budget aluminium mtb with 1 1/2 inch slicks. I realise that tyre width
is an important element for speed but I think I will get 35mm width
tyres on my proposed bike to help preserve the longevity of the wheels.
Are there any 20 stone plus riders who have had reliable wheels
narrower than this?

Focussing on my query as to whether a lighter and pricier bike will
result in more speed in mountain areas (for the same effort), I
understand that fatter riders have no disadvantage going downhill. I
spend a large portion of my time freewheeling, indeed, to achieve my
comfortable speed of 8 mph I am able to freewheel whenever my speed
goes above 6.5 - 7 mph. Is it likely that a lighter bike with more
pricier groupset etc will freewheel significantly faster and continue
rolling over a longer distance? If so, I would pedal less often to
achieve 8mph or more importantly pedal in a higher gear to achieve a
greater average speed.

I think I ought to stress that I am by no means interested solely in
how fast I can go. Its just that most of my newbie questions have been
covered by this group and this particular issue is one that doesn't
seem to have arisen before.

Am I allowed to ask several questions in one post? If so, does anyone
know if any framebuilders are using Reynolds 953 yet. I live in a salty
area so it could be an option if the pricing isn't too exotic.

Thanks for your help!

Ray
 

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