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Does Lance Armstrong know how to ride a regular bike?
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[email protected] wrote:
>
> Ernest Hemingway once observed that there are only three sports: bull
> fighting, automobile racing, and mountain climbing. All the rest, he
> said, are "just games."
After I posted that, it occurred to me that perhaps Papa had never
heard of a fatality in bike racing. Maybe if he had, he'd have said there
were FOUR sports...
Bill
----------------------------------------------------
| Only when the last tree has died & the last river |
| has been poisoned & the last fish has been caught |
| will we realize that we cannot eat money. |
----------------------------------------------------
>
> Ernest Hemingway once observed that there are only three sports: bull
> fighting, automobile racing, and mountain climbing. All the rest, he
> said, are "just games."
After I posted that, it occurred to me that perhaps Papa had never
heard of a fatality in bike racing. Maybe if he had, he'd have said there
were FOUR sports...
Bill
----------------------------------------------------
| Only when the last tree has died & the last river |
| has been poisoned & the last fish has been caught |
| will we realize that we cannot eat money. |
----------------------------------------------------
P
Paul
Guest
On 11 Aug 2005 07:02:03 -0700, "bryanska" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> Auto racing can be a sport in the same way that the myriad equestrian
>> events can be sports even though the horse is doing the work or
>> downhilling can be a sport even though gravity is providing the energy.
>> Let's not denigrate others' ideas of what is or is not a sport. .
>
>Amen, dude. When you look at a rarified series like IndyCar, Champ Car,
>or Formula 1, anybody driver about competition has to be in absolute
>top physcial form. I'm talking both muscular and cardiovascular. Tony
>Kanaan, 2004 IndyCar champion, regularly does triathlons on his off
>weekends. 2003 Champ Car champion Paul Tracy (subject of a questionable
>new WGN reality series called Race Car Driver) is famously beefed.
>Champ Car drivers must have incredible upper-body strength and stamina,
>as their cars are the heaviest major-league open wheel machines, and
>wrestling these beasts around 20 turns for 80 laps is a challenge few
>other athletes can surmount. It's not just a question of smooth power
>application as in cycling. Kickback from the suspension, and force
>feedback from inertia, can exert upwards of 40 pounds SUDDENLY against
>your grip. Imagine catching a bag of rock salt and controlling it. At
>180 MPH and inches from a competitor, letting this force affect your
>line is a ticket into the wall. Did you know that most of them don't
>pee because they've sweated so much from the exertion?
They are machine operators, plain and simple. Sure, there may be a few
drivers who do things outside of their machines such as run, bike,
weight train, etc. Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a
steering wheel.
>It may look graceful but make no mistake. These people are wrestlers.
>For 2 or 3 hours. And at the 24 hours races, they do it for 4 hours.
>Then attempt to sleep for four hours, and wake up and do it again.
>
>Formula One is slightly less brutish than Champ Car, but extra
>concentration is required because the cars are at the bleeding edge of
>performance. This is a series technically amok. IndyCar is slightly
>less so, and mostly ovals, but mixing in more street courses. NASCAR is
>watered down for the masses, using old technology and restricting
>competition. They've turned their back on heritage, and virtually none
>of their bootlegging past is mentioned anymore. I guess that's my beef
>with NASCAR - all the rollickin' good times they had when I was a kid
>turned into corporate racertainment.
If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete.
Don't demean the term "athlete" by calling people who sit relatively
stationary operating machines "athletes".
Paul P.
wrote:
>> Auto racing can be a sport in the same way that the myriad equestrian
>> events can be sports even though the horse is doing the work or
>> downhilling can be a sport even though gravity is providing the energy.
>> Let's not denigrate others' ideas of what is or is not a sport. .
>
>Amen, dude. When you look at a rarified series like IndyCar, Champ Car,
>or Formula 1, anybody driver about competition has to be in absolute
>top physcial form. I'm talking both muscular and cardiovascular. Tony
>Kanaan, 2004 IndyCar champion, regularly does triathlons on his off
>weekends. 2003 Champ Car champion Paul Tracy (subject of a questionable
>new WGN reality series called Race Car Driver) is famously beefed.
>Champ Car drivers must have incredible upper-body strength and stamina,
>as their cars are the heaviest major-league open wheel machines, and
>wrestling these beasts around 20 turns for 80 laps is a challenge few
>other athletes can surmount. It's not just a question of smooth power
>application as in cycling. Kickback from the suspension, and force
>feedback from inertia, can exert upwards of 40 pounds SUDDENLY against
>your grip. Imagine catching a bag of rock salt and controlling it. At
>180 MPH and inches from a competitor, letting this force affect your
>line is a ticket into the wall. Did you know that most of them don't
>pee because they've sweated so much from the exertion?
They are machine operators, plain and simple. Sure, there may be a few
drivers who do things outside of their machines such as run, bike,
weight train, etc. Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a
steering wheel.
>It may look graceful but make no mistake. These people are wrestlers.
>For 2 or 3 hours. And at the 24 hours races, they do it for 4 hours.
>Then attempt to sleep for four hours, and wake up and do it again.
>
>Formula One is slightly less brutish than Champ Car, but extra
>concentration is required because the cars are at the bleeding edge of
>performance. This is a series technically amok. IndyCar is slightly
>less so, and mostly ovals, but mixing in more street courses. NASCAR is
>watered down for the masses, using old technology and restricting
>competition. They've turned their back on heritage, and virtually none
>of their bootlegging past is mentioned anymore. I guess that's my beef
>with NASCAR - all the rollickin' good times they had when I was a kid
>turned into corporate racertainment.
If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete.
Don't demean the term "athlete" by calling people who sit relatively
stationary operating machines "athletes".
Paul P.
B
bryanska
Guest
Oh Paul... "They are machine operators, plain and simple."? So is a
cyclist. An operator of a collection of machines.
"Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a steering wheel." Ditto
bobsledders, hang gliders, luge riders...
"If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete."
Ergo, would most cyclists be called athletes?
"Don't demean the term "athlete" by calling people who sit relatively
stationary operating machines "athletes". -- Equestrians, bobsledders
(again).. So any "sport" in the "Olympics" where the person doesn't
provide the locomotion not a "sport" anymore?
Many sports exist that contain hardly ANY aspects of athleticism.
Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
cyclist. An operator of a collection of machines.
"Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a steering wheel." Ditto
bobsledders, hang gliders, luge riders...
"If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete."
Ergo, would most cyclists be called athletes?
"Don't demean the term "athlete" by calling people who sit relatively
stationary operating machines "athletes". -- Equestrians, bobsledders
(again).. So any "sport" in the "Olympics" where the person doesn't
provide the locomotion not a "sport" anymore?
Many sports exist that contain hardly ANY aspects of athleticism.
Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
T
Tom Keats
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:
>
> BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Stupid moron!
N fghcvq zbeba fnlf jung?
--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
[email protected] writes:
>
> BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Stupid moron!
N fghcvq zbeba fnlf jung?
--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
P
Paul
Guest
On 11 Aug 2005 19:18:29 -0700, "bryanska" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Many sports exist that contain hardly ANY aspects of athleticism.
>Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
No, racing does not. Driving is by no means athletic, even during
(gasp!) hot conditions and no power steering. A foot for gas/brakes
and steering. By no means athletic. I'm almost certain some of the
old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
activities other than sitting on a horse.
There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. So is
shooting. That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
Paul P.
wrote:
>Many sports exist that contain hardly ANY aspects of athleticism.
>Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
No, racing does not. Driving is by no means athletic, even during
(gasp!) hot conditions and no power steering. A foot for gas/brakes
and steering. By no means athletic. I'm almost certain some of the
old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
activities other than sitting on a horse.
There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. So is
shooting. That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
Paul P.
B
Bob
Guest
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I mean, *everybody* knows golf is just a game,
> > right? <g>
>
> It's just a game when you drive into the woods, or
> the parking lot, or onto the head of some fat guy
> tewtling along down the edge of the fairway in his
> golf cart ("Oops. Sorry".)
>
> It's a sport when you Eagle 3 inches from the cup
> on a 300+ yarder in a crosswind. Especially if the
> ball slowly does the question mark curve around the
> hole until it snuggles up close to it.
Easy, Tom. I was joking hence the <g>.
> Shooting a 5-shot one-holer at 300 yards with open
> sights from a 22/250 bench rifle and hand-loads --
> I dunno if that's a sport or a game. But it's a challenge.
> I guess taking on challenges is Sport, but not necessarily
> a "sport".
Sport isn't a religion and carries no tax advantages so I'll willingly
grant almost any activity Sport status if it's a competition with rules
and entails some form of athleticism or at least physicality. If you
carry your own clubs I guess golf qualifies. Parenthetically, in the
early 1900's a "sport" was simply a guy of questionable character that
drank too much, gambled, and chased whores. In that sense, Eddy Merckxx
was not a sport but Jacques Antequitl qualified. <g>
Regards,
Bob Hunt
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I mean, *everybody* knows golf is just a game,
> > right? <g>
>
> It's just a game when you drive into the woods, or
> the parking lot, or onto the head of some fat guy
> tewtling along down the edge of the fairway in his
> golf cart ("Oops. Sorry".)
>
> It's a sport when you Eagle 3 inches from the cup
> on a 300+ yarder in a crosswind. Especially if the
> ball slowly does the question mark curve around the
> hole until it snuggles up close to it.
Easy, Tom. I was joking hence the <g>.
> Shooting a 5-shot one-holer at 300 yards with open
> sights from a 22/250 bench rifle and hand-loads --
> I dunno if that's a sport or a game. But it's a challenge.
> I guess taking on challenges is Sport, but not necessarily
> a "sport".
Sport isn't a religion and carries no tax advantages so I'll willingly
grant almost any activity Sport status if it's a competition with rules
and entails some form of athleticism or at least physicality. If you
carry your own clubs I guess golf qualifies. Parenthetically, in the
early 1900's a "sport" was simply a guy of questionable character that
drank too much, gambled, and chased whores. In that sense, Eddy Merckxx
was not a sport but Jacques Antequitl qualified. <g>
Regards,
Bob Hunt
Z
Zoot Katz
Guest
Fri, 12 Aug 2005 04:04:07 GMT,
<[email protected]>, Paul
<[email protected]> wrote:
>No, racing does not. Driving is by no means athletic, even during
>(gasp!) hot conditions and no power steering. A foot for gas/brakes
>and steering. By no means athletic. I'm almost certain some of the
>old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
>Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
>misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
>activities other than sitting on a horse.
>There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
>athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. So is
>shooting. That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
An athlete is simply "A person possessing the natural or acquired
traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary
for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in
competitive contexts."
Jockeys of sail planes, boats, horses or cars are athletes when
they're competing. So are bowlers and professional eaters.
"Athlete" is nothing to be proud of. It simply means you're a
contestant in a "game".
Hemingway is alleged to have considered mountain climbing, motor
racing and bull fighting as the only true "sports". All the rest being
merely "games".
--
zk
<[email protected]>, Paul
<[email protected]> wrote:
>No, racing does not. Driving is by no means athletic, even during
>(gasp!) hot conditions and no power steering. A foot for gas/brakes
>and steering. By no means athletic. I'm almost certain some of the
>old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
>Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
>misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
>activities other than sitting on a horse.
>There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
>athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. So is
>shooting. That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
An athlete is simply "A person possessing the natural or acquired
traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary
for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in
competitive contexts."
Jockeys of sail planes, boats, horses or cars are athletes when
they're competing. So are bowlers and professional eaters.
"Athlete" is nothing to be proud of. It simply means you're a
contestant in a "game".
Hemingway is alleged to have considered mountain climbing, motor
racing and bull fighting as the only true "sports". All the rest being
merely "games".
--
zk
M
Not only NASCAR bully bikers and White Penis Power does ring a bell,
you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
and rehash it more
you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
and rehash it more
B
Bill Sornson
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Not only NASCAR bully bikers and White Penis Power does ring a bell,
> you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
> and rehash it more
Pungent **** seem fixated on Gushing White Penis.
(Not that anything wrong with that.)
Hash not all he smoke?
<eg> ROTFL <eg>
> Not only NASCAR bully bikers and White Penis Power does ring a bell,
> you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
> and rehash it more
Pungent **** seem fixated on Gushing White Penis.
(Not that anything wrong with that.)
Hash not all he smoke?
<eg> ROTFL <eg>
L
Little Meow
Guest
Red Lee wrote:
>
> Not only NASCAR bully bikers and White Penis Power does ring a bell,
> you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
> and rehash it more
>
How can I possibly know more than a master debater like yourself, who
has erected a leitmotif of White Penii while pinning down the "NASCAR bully
biker" for all to see. I am quite flattered that you envision me gushing
upon you.
>
> Not only NASCAR bully bikers and White Penis Power does ring a bell,
> you know it's hidden meaning more than I do....And you want to gush
> and rehash it more
>
How can I possibly know more than a master debater like yourself, who
has erected a leitmotif of White Penii while pinning down the "NASCAR bully
biker" for all to see. I am quite flattered that you envision me gushing
upon you.
B
bryanska
Guest
> >Many sports exist that contain hardly ANY aspects of athleticism.
Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
> No, racing does not.
Yes, racing does contain these things. I'll list them again: intense
competition, teams, strategy based on physical/mental & mechanical
conditions, physical exertion (surely exceeding baseball here),
potential for injury, championship series & regulations, sanctioning
bodies, minor league series...
>I'm almost certain some of the
> old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
Babe Ruth? Bob Probert of pro hockey? Rugby footballers?
> Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
> misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
> activities other than sitting on a horse.
Try telling them that, and the Olympic Commission.
> There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
> athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. (snip) That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
Then why are they?
More, please.
Racing contains almost all of them except for human-powered locomotion.
> No, racing does not.
Yes, racing does contain these things. I'll list them again: intense
competition, teams, strategy based on physical/mental & mechanical
conditions, physical exertion (surely exceeding baseball here),
potential for injury, championship series & regulations, sanctioning
bodies, minor league series...
>I'm almost certain some of the
> old dumbass NASCAR drivers were cigarette smokers and heavy drinkers.
Babe Ruth? Bob Probert of pro hockey? Rugby footballers?
> Equestrians are called "equestrians". To call them athletes would be a
> misnomer as well, unless they participate in some sort of athletic
> activities other than sitting on a horse.
Try telling them that, and the Olympic Commission.
> There probably are many sports that contain hardly ANY aspects of
> athleticism. NASCAR is a prime example. Golf is another. (snip) That's why those people should not be called "athletes".
Then why are they?
More, please.
M
Mark Hickey
Guest
"bryanska" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Oh Paul... "They are machine operators, plain and simple."? So is a
>cyclist. An operator of a collection of machines.
>
>"Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a steering wheel." Ditto
>bobsledders, hang gliders, luge riders...
>
>"If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete."
>Ergo, would most cyclists be called athletes?
While most folks envision auto racing as akin to sitting on your
couch, the truth is that the level of exertion IS a major factor in
racing. When was the last time you saw an obviously out of shape
driver win a major race? I can't recall an example.
You can get an idea of the exertion involved when the in-car telemetry
includes the driver's heart rate (which would be in the "time trial
range" for most of us). This is obviously more of an issue on the
road courses than a huge oval, of course.
That's not to say that bicycle racing isn't MORE about being in shape,
and more aerobic. Just that most "normal people" wouldn't be able to
handle the physical demands of typical auto racing.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
>Oh Paul... "They are machine operators, plain and simple."? So is a
>cyclist. An operator of a collection of machines.
>
>"Still, they are sitting in a machine, turning a steering wheel." Ditto
>bobsledders, hang gliders, luge riders...
>
>"If driving is athletic, then most everyone who drives is an athlete."
>Ergo, would most cyclists be called athletes?
While most folks envision auto racing as akin to sitting on your
couch, the truth is that the level of exertion IS a major factor in
racing. When was the last time you saw an obviously out of shape
driver win a major race? I can't recall an example.
You can get an idea of the exertion involved when the in-car telemetry
includes the driver's heart rate (which would be in the "time trial
range" for most of us). This is obviously more of an issue on the
road courses than a huge oval, of course.
That's not to say that bicycle racing isn't MORE about being in shape,
and more aerobic. Just that most "normal people" wouldn't be able to
handle the physical demands of typical auto racing.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
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