does such a rim exist?

[41]

sal bass wrote:
> i should have made two sentences out of that.....
>
> i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel to
> the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
>
> i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (bo th new and used) and i
> can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause the
> wheel to fail....it's a bit unnerving.

I have ridden only pinned rims with no machining and have never felt
such a pulse. For this to occur the rims must be of amazingly low
quality. I have ridden mostly cheap rims. It certainly will not cause
the rim to fail.


> as for the welding...i've noticed that since the pin isn't located at
> the edge of the brake track but at the base of it....that the brake
> track can eventually become a bit out of sorts.

I have never experienced this and cannot imagine it occurring.

> so a pinned rim is just as strong than a welded one?

As JB says, for the same cross section, yes. There are cheap welded
rims too and I recall some posters describing various defects in the
welds that gave them troubles of some sort.

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sal Bass writes:
>
> >>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
> >>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and then
> >>> the brake track machined
>
> >> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
> >> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing and
> >> manufacturing reasons, not strength.
>
> >> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?
>
> > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
>
> > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel
> > to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
>
> > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and i
> > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause
> > the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
>
> Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
> the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been an
> issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have ridden more
> unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn out ones that
> are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it with a finger nail,
> even though you can see it.

Interesting. Every pinned rim I've ever owned has had an obvious bump from
the mismatched walls at the seam. Eventually they smooth out but I have a
pair of new Ritchey 700c cyclocross rims from about 10 years ago that have a
significant catch when braking at lower speeds. I only have about 100 miles
on them so I hope they get better over time.

Greg who

 

[sal bass]

[email protected] wrote:
> Sal Bass writes:
>
> >>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
> >>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and then
> >>> the brake track machined
>
> >> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
> >> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing and
> >> manufacturing reasons, not strength.
>
> >> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?
>
> > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
>
> > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel
> > to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
>
> > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and i
> > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause
> > the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
>
> Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
> the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been an
> issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have ridden more
> unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn out ones that
> are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it with a finger nail,
> even though you can see it. I see Mavic can convince the world that
> their:
>
> FORE, FTS L, MAXTAL, QRM+, SUP, UB, and other enhancements have any
>value other than justifying an unreasonably high price.



i've ridden new rigida, wolber, and fir rims what were pinned. while
they DID look nice....it was easy to feel where the rim was joined.

maybe that's all my years (10 total) of riding a machined rim track?


>
> > as for the welding... i've noticed that since the pin isn't located
> > at the edge of the brake track but at the base of it... that the
> > brake track can eventually become a bit out of sorts.
>
> > while i have no problem getting in there and bending it just a bit
> > (although i'm not sure it would even move at all) i think it would be
> > nice to not have to do that.
>
> > so a pinned rim is just as strong than a welded one?
>
> If it's from the same extrusion as the welded one, YES. Of course we
> can't compare because no one offers an unwelded version of a welded
> rim. Just the same, what sort of failure are you visualizing? In the
> old days, someone at Fiamme decided they would not rivet the internal
> sleeve at the rim joint, to which believers in rim separation made a
> howl. It was that sort of mystic beliefs that encouraged writing
> "the Bicycle Wheel".
>
>
> Jobst Brandt

my main issue with some of the older rims is that i might flat spot the
rim. i've seen lots of wheels for both general road riding and touring
that were pinned and they always seemed to have flat spots. these are
all brands of rim.

maybe the current batch of rims sold are heat treated
perhaps....becuase while theur still flat spot...i just don't see it as
often. maybe it's a total statistics game but....

i'd just hate to lace up a wheel....smack a pot hole and have to relace
the rim.

 

[sal bass]

41 wrote:
> sal bass wrote:
> > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
> >
> > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel to
> > the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
> >
> > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (bo th new and used) and i
> > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause the
> > wheel to fail....it's a bit unnerving.
>
> I have ridden only pinned rims with no machining and have never felt
> such a pulse. For this to occur the rims must be of amazingly low
> quality. I have ridden mostly cheap rims. It certainly will not cause
> the rim to fail.
>

pulse...bump...i'm not sure how to describe other than to say that when
the joint passes through the pads....something is felt at the lever.

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sal Bass writes:
> >
> > >>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
> > >>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and then
> > >>> the brake track machined
> >
> > >> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
> > >> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing and
> > >> manufacturing reasons, not strength.
> >
> > >> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?
> >
> > > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
> >
> > > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel
> > > to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
> >
> > > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and i
> > > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause
> > > the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
> >
> > Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
> > the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been an
> > issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have ridden more
> > unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn out ones that
> > are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it with a finger nail,
> > even though you can see it.
>
> Interesting. Every pinned rim I've ever owned has had an obvious bump from
> the mismatched walls at the seam. Eventually they smooth out but I have a
> pair of new Ritchey 700c cyclocross rims from about 10 years ago that have a
> significant catch when braking at lower speeds. I only have about 100 miles
> on them so I hope they get better over time.

After lacing the wheel and as you start to tension the
spokes you shift the cut ends of the extrusion at the
pinned joint so that they match. No step.

--
Michael Press

 

[G.T.]

"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. Every pinned rim I've ever owned has had an obvious bump
from
> > the mismatched walls at the seam. Eventually they smooth out but I have
a
> > pair of new Ritchey 700c cyclocross rims from about 10 years ago that
have a
> > significant catch when braking at lower speeds. I only have about 100
miles
> > on them so I hope they get better over time.
>
> After lacing the wheel and as you start to tension the
> spokes you shift the cut ends of the extrusion at the
> pinned joint so that they match. No step.
>

I've only built welded rims so didn't need to take that step. But every
pinned rim that I have had has been built by someone else and none of those
wheel builders got ride of the step.

Greg

 

[[email protected]]

Sal Bass writes:

>>>>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
>>>>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and
>>>>> then the brake track machined

>>>> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
>>>> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing
>>>> and manufacturing reasons, not strength.

>>>> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?

>>> i should have made two sentences out of that.....

>>> i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant
>>> feel to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.

>>> i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and
>>> i can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not
>>> cause the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.

>> Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
>> the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been
>> an issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have
>> ridden more unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn
>> out ones that are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it
>> with a finger nail, even though you can see it. I see Mavic can
>> convince the world that their:

>> FORE, FTS L, MAXTAL, QRM+, SUP, UB, and other enhancements have any
>> value other than justifying an unreasonably high price.

> i've ridden new rigida, wolber, and fir rims what were pinned. while
> they DID look nice....it was easy to feel where the rim was joined.

> maybe that's all my years (10 total) of riding a machined rim track?

> my main issue with some of the older rims is that i might flat spot
> the rim. i've seen lots of wheels for both general road riding and
> touring that were pinned and they always seemed to have flat spots.
> these are all brands of rim.

To what sort of "flat spots" are you referring? Rims are not made in
a way that non-round sections occur. A long straight extrusion is
curled into a multi turn coil and sliced into single hoops. The ends
of these have the same curvature as the rest of the rim.

> maybe the current batch of rims sold are heat treated perhaps...
> becuase while theur still flat spot... i just don't see it as often.
> maybe it's a total statistics game but...

> i'd just hate to lace up a wheel... smack a pot hole and have to
> relace the rim.

What does welding do that would make the rim respond differently to a
pot hole than when not welded. What are you visualizing when you say
that? A pot hole will put a ding in the bead or edges of the tubular
rim and if you hit hard enough, give it the classic "M" failure, where
the tire lifts off between the high spots adjacent to the depression.
None of this involves the rim joint.

By the way, how about using the shift key now and then. I'm sure you
must have learned when to do so in school. You went to school didn't
you?

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Sal Bass writes:


>>> i should have made two sentences out of that...

>>> i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant
>>> feel to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.

>>> i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (bo th new and used)
>>> and i can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not
>>> cause the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.

>> I have ridden only pinned rims with no machining and have never
>> felt such a pulse. For this to occur the rims must be of amazingly
>> low quality. I have ridden mostly cheap rims. It certainly will
>> not cause the rim to fail.

> pulse... bump... i'm not sure how to describe other than to say that
> when the joint passes through the pads... something is felt at the
> lever.

That's even more bizarre. I have heard a damaged rim joint pass brake
pads but feel that at the brake lever is a stretch of the imagination.

Cut it out!

Jobst Brandt

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sal Bass writes:
>
>
> >>> i should have made two sentences out of that...
>
> >>> i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant
> >>> feel to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
>
> >>> i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (bo th new and used)
> >>> and i can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not
> >>> cause the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
>
> >> I have ridden only pinned rims with no machining and have never
> >> felt such a pulse. For this to occur the rims must be of amazingly
> >> low quality. I have ridden mostly cheap rims. It certainly will
> >> not cause the rim to fail.
>
> > pulse... bump... i'm not sure how to describe other than to say that
> > when the joint passes through the pads... something is felt at the
> > lever.
>
> That's even more bizarre. I have heard a damaged rim joint pass brake
> pads but feel that at the brake lever is a stretch of the imagination.
>
> Cut it out!

You cut it out. I'd be happy to meet you in Cambria (nice place halfway
between here and there) this weekend so you can check out the rims on my
Soma Double Cross.

Greg

 

[sal bass]

[email protected] wrote:
> Sal Bass writes:
> >
> > my main issue with some of the older rims is that i might flat spot
> > the rim. i've seen lots of wheels for both general road riding and
> > touring that were pinned and they always seemed to have flat spots.
> > these are all brands of rim.
>
> To what sort of "flat spots" are you referring? Rims are not made in
> a way that non-round sections occur. A long straight extrusion is
> curled into a multi turn coil and sliced into single hoops. The ends
> of these have the same curvature as the rest of the rim.
>

flat spots from riding. where a hard edge is hit and the rim becomes
non-round at that point.

> > maybe the current batch of rims sold are heat treated perhaps...
> > becuase while theur still flat spot... i just don't see it as often.
> > maybe it's a total statistics game but...
>
> > i'd just hate to lace up a wheel... smack a pot hole and have to
> > relace the rim.
>
> What does welding do that would make the rim respond differently to a
> pot hole than when not welded. What are you visualizing when you say
> that? A pot hole will put a ding in the bead or edges of the tubular
> rim and if you hit hard enough, give it the classic "M" failure, where
> the tire lifts off between the high spots adjacent to the depression.
> None of this involves the rim joint.
>

i don't really know. but i just don't see as many flat spots on the
more modern rims than i do on the older models of rims.

the welding and flat spotting are not something i'm relating.

> By the way, how about using the shift key now and then. I'm sure you
> must have learned when to do so in school. You went to school didn't
> you?
>
> Jobst Brandt

i purposely type in all lower case to get the uptight to call me out on
not using the shift key.

i mean, come on, it's the internet. it's not a resume or a doctoral
thesis.

live a little....you might like it.

 

[sal bass]

Hahaha! Get real Greg, If Jobst hasn't experienced it, it's never
happened....and it never will.

Time to yank the Shift key back out.



G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sal Bass writes:
> >
> >
> > >>> i should have made two sentences out of that...
> >
> > >>> i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant
> > >>> feel to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
> >
> > >>> i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (bo th new and used)
> > >>> and i can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not
> > >>> cause the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
> >
> > >> I have ridden only pinned rims with no machining and have never
> > >> felt such a pulse. For this to occur the rims must be of amazingly
> > >> low quality. I have ridden mostly cheap rims. It certainly will
> > >> not cause the rim to fail.
> >
> > > pulse... bump... i'm not sure how to describe other than to say that
> > > when the joint passes through the pads... something is felt at the
> > > lever.
> >
> > That's even more bizarre. I have heard a damaged rim joint pass brake
> > pads but feel that at the brake lever is a stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > Cut it out!
>
> You cut it out. I'd be happy to meet you in Cambria (nice place halfway
> between here and there) this weekend so you can check out the rims on my
> Soma Double Cross.
>
> Greg

 

[Nate Knutson]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Sal Bass writes:
> > >
> > > >>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
> > > >>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and then
> > > >>> the brake track machined
> > >
> > > >> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
> > > >> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing and
> > > >> manufacturing reasons, not strength.
> > >
> > > >> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?
> > >
> > > > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
> > >
> > > > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel
> > > > to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
> > >
> > > > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and i
> > > > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause
> > > > the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
> > >
> > > Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
> > > the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been an
> > > issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have ridden more
> > > unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn out ones that
> > > are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it with a finger nail,
> > > even though you can see it.
> >
> > Interesting. Every pinned rim I've ever owned has had an obvious bump from
> > the mismatched walls at the seam. Eventually they smooth out but I have a
> > pair of new Ritchey 700c cyclocross rims from about 10 years ago that have a
> > significant catch when braking at lower speeds. I only have about 100 miles
> > on them so I hope they get better over time.
>
> After lacing the wheel and as you start to tension the
> spokes you shift the cut ends of the extrusion at the
> pinned joint so that they match. No step.

Any more specific tips on how to do this?

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Sal Bass writes:
> > > >
> > > > >>> the clinchers aren't usually very stiff seeing as how they are
> > > > >>> single wall and pinned rather than double wall and welded and then
> > > > >>> the brake track machined
> > > >
> > > > >> Laced up, a rim is under enormous compression at that joint and
> > > > >> will not shift, pinned or welded. Welding is done for marketing and
> > > > >> manufacturing reasons, not strength.
> > > >
> > > > >> Why would machining the brake track make the rim any stronger?
> > > >
> > > > > i should have made two sentences out of that.....
> > > >
> > > > > i like the idea of a machined brake track so give a consistant feel
> > > > > to the brake and not feel that pulse where they are pinned.
> > > >
> > > > > i've ridden about 10 different pinned rims (both new and used) and i
> > > > > can always feel that pulse at the joint. while it might not cause
> > > > > the wheel to fail... it's a bit unnerving.
> > > >
> > > > Oh BS. I've been riding for many miles and with many riders before
> > > > the days of welded rims and the symptom you describe has not been an
> > > > issue except with rims that were damaged. I'm sure I have ridden more
> > > > unwelded rims than you besides having a stack of worn out ones that
> > > > are so smooth at the joint that you can't find it with a finger nail,
> > > > even though you can see it.
> > >
> > > Interesting. Every pinned rim I've ever owned has had an obvious bump from
> > > the mismatched walls at the seam. Eventually they smooth out but I have a
> > > pair of new Ritchey 700c cyclocross rims from about 10 years ago that have a
> > > significant catch when braking at lower speeds. I only have about 100 miles
> > > on them so I hope they get better over time.
> >
> > After lacing the wheel and as you start to tension the
> > spokes you shift the cut ends of the extrusion at the
> > pinned joint so that they match. No step.
>
> Any more specific tips on how to do this?

What do you understand from what I wrote? Before lacing
the rim see if you can get the cut ends to match exactly.

Wheel building is a treat. Some well engineered parts,
simple tools, a couple hours of unalloyed fun, et voila! A
round, strong wheel that will travel tens of thousands of
perfectly smooth miles.

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

what planet do live on?

 

[[email protected]]

what planet do you live on?