Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by john, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. john

    john Guest

    Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    injections and autism?

    Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002

    A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed
    after having the MMR vaccine as a toddler could be the 'missing link'
    which proves the combined jab causes autism.

    Tests on James Sinclair, now 13, have found the measles virus - which
    is known to cause brain damage - in the fluid surrounding his brain
    and inside his spine.

    His mother Anna says she watched helplessly as his personality changed
    after being given the combined measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.

    The discovery of the measles virus inside his cerebro-spinal fluid is
    the most compelling evidence yet to support the theory that the MMR
    jab could lead to autism.


    Experts believe the virus from the injection travelled from his blood
    - where it is supposed to stay in order to produce immunity - into his
    spinal fluid, where it attacked his brain.

    Two leading neurologists who have studied James's case believe MMR is
    responsible for causing brain damage which sparked his autism.

    Fears of a link have led to record numbers of parents shunning the
    MMR jab, resulting in warnings that Britan is facing a growing threat
    of measles outbreaks.

    But further scientific tests which could definitively prove a causal
    link have stalled because the Government is refusing to fund a legal
    chal­lenge against the manufacturers of the vaccine.

    The teenager is among those suing vaccine manufacturers for
    compensation in a landmark legal battle, which is currently on hold
    after legal aid was withdrawn.

    Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.

    Yesterday, his mother Anna Sin­clair, of Evesham, Worcestershire,
    said: 'My son's body is suffused with the measles virus. It is in his
    brain. What is it doing there?

    'He has never had measles - only the MMR jab. There is no other
    logical explanation for the presence of this virus in his spinal fluid
    other than the MMR jab.'

    Other tests have also shown that the measles virus is in James's blood
    and inside bowel tissue.

    MRS Sinclair, 39, a marketing officer whose marriage col­lapsed under
    the strain of caring for James, added: 'I feel very strongly it needs
    to be investigated further. I want to know exactly what is wrong with
    my son in the hope that there may be something that can be done to
    make him better.



    'He is a lovely boy, but from the moment he had the vaccine he changed
    forever.'



    James is diagnosed as having 'atypical' autism, in that he can
    maintain eye contact and show affection. But he is only able to make
    basic noises to display his emotions and displays erratic behaviour
    such as refusing to wear clothes and ripping up belongings.



    Paediatric neurologist Dr Marcel Kinsbourne, a professor of cogni­tive
    studies at Tufts University in Massachusetts and the New School
    University, New York, is planning to give evidence support­ing the
    claim that MMR caused James's autism.



    He is backed by another eminent neurologist, Professor John Menkes,
    emeritus professor of neurology and paediatrics at the University of
    Califor­nia in Los Angeles.



    Yesterday, solicitor Richard Barr, of law firm Alexander Harris, which
    is representing the families in their compensation bid, said: 'I have
    talked to leading virologists and they say you should never find
    measles virus in the brain and it is a clear indication that it has
    caused damage. 'It is the equivalent of finding the smoking gun and
    the bullet.' Brain damage is already known to be a risk of suf­fering
    measles infection.



    At the age of 15 months, just before he was given a first dose of MMR,
    James was able to talk in short sentences and enjoyed singing nursery
    rhymes.



    After the first injection in 1992, he became withdrawn, lethargic and
    stopped speaking.



    Mrs Sinclair, who has two other children Jack, 14, and Rory, eight,
    said: 'He had a temperature and became very withdrawn. He would also
    take my hand and press it to his head. It was as if he was trying to
    tell me he had a terrible headache.'



    James was mistakenly given a second dose of MMR vaccine, just over a
    year later, instead of the Hib vaccine against a pneumococcal
    infection.



    'That seemed to compound things,' said Mrs Sinclair. 'He was
    struggling to find words, he would scream for hours on end.'



    A sample of spinal fluid was taken from James and six other children
    involved in the MMR court case in a hospital in Detroit last year.



    No NHS or private hospital in the UK would carry out the tests.



    PROFESSOR John O'Leary, of Trinity College in Dublin, then carried
    out screening at his private firm Unigenetics and found the measles
    virus in three samples of spinal fluid. Crucially, one of these
    contained an MMR strain of measles.



    In the case of James and another child, doctors were unable to
    iden­tify the strain of the virus. Further tests are needed.



    However, control studies on spinal fluid samples from 19 chil­dren
    with leukaemia found only one case with measles virus in spinal fluid.
    Children with leukaemia may be more suscepti­ble to viruses due to
    their illness.



    Three drug firms - Glaxo-SmithKline, Merck and Co and Aventis Pasteur
    MSD - are being sued over the MMR jab.



    The case is seen as a crucial test of whether MMR is safe.'



    The Legal Services Commission, which provides legal aid, decided to
    withdraw funding in September. Some £15million had already been spent
    pursuing the case. A further £l0million was thought to be needed to
    bring the case to court.



    A spokesman said: 'This was the first case in which research had been
    funded by legal aid.



    'In retrospect it was not effective or appropriate for the LSC to fund
    research. The courts are not the place to prove medical truths.'



    The Department of Health said it could not comment on any research
    which had discovered measles virus in spinal fluid until it had been
    independently reviewed.



    A spokesman said: 'We want to see parents given the facts - that there
    is no credible scientific evidence showing an association between MMR
    and autism.



    'It remains the best form of protection for your child.'

    [email protected]
     
    Tags:


  2. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    > injections and autism?
    >
    > Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002
    >
    > A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed
    > after having the MMR vaccine as a toddler could be the 'missing link'
    > which proves the combined jab causes autism.


    No he can't. The evidence clearly shows that autism is not caused by
    vaccines. Your continuing lies do not change facts.

    Garbage deleted.

    Jeff
     
  3. Liz

    Liz Guest

    [email protected] (john) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    > injections and autism?


    NNNN NNN OO0OOO !!!!
    NNNNN NNN OOOO0OOOOO !!!!
    NNNNNN NNN OOOOOO0OOOOO !!!!
    NNNNNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOO0 !!!!
    NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    NNN NNNNNNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    NNN NNNNNN OOOOOO0OOOOO
    NNN NNNNN OOOOOO0OOO ....
    NNN NNNN OO0OOO ....


    >
    > But further scientific tests which could definitively prove a causal
    > link have stalled because the Government is refusing to fund a legal
    > chal­lenge against the manufacturers of the vaccine.


    Why would the government fund a trial? Is it not a civil matter?


    > The teenager is among those suing vaccine manufacturers for
    > compensation in a landmark legal battle, which is currently on hold
    > after legal aid was withdrawn.
    >
    > Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    > another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.


    They cannot continue because they don't have legal aid? Sounds like
    the
    barristers for the parents are a bunch of American Ambulance Chasers
    and they realize they don't have credible evidence?

    > Yesterday, his mother Anna Sin­clair, of Evesham, Worcestershire,
    > said: 'My son's body is suffused with the measles virus. It is in his
    > brain. What is it doing there?
    >
    > 'He has never had measles - only the MMR jab. There is no other
    > logical explanation for the presence of this virus in his spinal fluid
    > other than the MMR jab.'
    >
    > Other tests have also shown that the measles virus is in James's blood
    > and inside bowel tissue.


    If the blood brain barrier was broken by the vaccine, what would have
    prevented the normal measles infection from doing the same?


    > MRS Sinclair, 39, a marketing officer whose marriage col­lapsed under
    > the strain of caring for James, added: 'I feel very strongly it needs
    > to be investigated further. I want to know exactly what is wrong with
    > my son in the hope that there may be something that can be done to
    > make him better.


    > 'He is a lovely boy, but from the moment he had the vaccine he changed
    > forever.'
    >


    If the change occurred the moment he was vaccinated then it could have
    been
    the needle used in the vaccination, the plastic in the syringe, a
    latex
    related response, the material used to wipe the injection site with
    alcohol
    or any number of things.


    >
    > Paediatric neurologist Dr Marcel Kinsbourne, a professor of cogni­tive
    > studies at Tufts University in Massachusetts and the New School
    > University, New York, is planning to give evidence support­ing the
    > claim that MMR caused James's autism.
    >


    Dr. Marcel Kinsbourne is a Professor of Psychology at the New School
    of Social Sciences in New York City. Notice that is SOCIAL SCIENCE,
    not MEDICAL. Not what I would consider a grand endorsement for
    advanced capabilities in Neurology. He is not even the chair of his
    deparment. It seems strange that an individual who is the lead in his
    field of Paediatric Neurology would teach psychology and then not hold
    the department chair.


    If you use the Tuft's University search engine on their website to
    look for the name "Kinsbourne" you will not obtain any hits. He may
    have been there but he is not now, if the website is accurate. Search
    the Tuft's University website for Dr. Kinsbourne at
    http://directory.tufts.edu/ .


    > He is backed by another eminent neurologist, Professor John Menkes,
    > emeritus professor of neurology and paediatrics at the University of
    > Califor­nia in Los Angeles.


    A search for Dr. Menkes at UCLA results in no hits also. Check the
    website http://www.directory.ucla.edu/ for UCLA Staff & Faculty. One
    would surmise an eminent neurologist would be herald by an institution
    such as UCLA.

    There is a Dr. John Menkes in Neurology at Cedars-Sinai. It would be
    interesting to hear his take on using the vaccine or just not
    vaccinating.


    > Yesterday, solicitor Richard Barr, of law firm Alexander Harris, which
    > is representing the families in their compensation bid, said: 'I have
    > talked to leading virologists and they say you should never find
    > measles virus in the brain and it is a clear indication that it has
    > caused damage. 'It is the equivalent of finding the smoking gun and


    It begs to ask is the virus found the one used in the vaccine or
    another measles variant virus found in the child's brain?


    > the bullet.' Brain damage is already known to be a risk of suf­fering
    > measles infection.


    Bingo John. The next question is how many brain damaged children would
    there be if they were not vaccinated?


    > PROFESSOR John O'Leary, of Trinity College in Dublin, then carried
    > out screening at his private firm Unigenetics and found the measles
    > virus in three samples of spinal fluid. Crucially, one of these
    > contained an MMR strain of measles.


    Trinity College in Dublin did not have John O'leary listed in
    Paediatrics, Clinical Microbiology, Haematology, Immunology
    deparments. What department does he teach or work?

    Ah so there was another variant of measles found other then rubella?
    >
    >
    > In the case of James and another child, doctors were unable to
    > iden­tify the strain of the virus. Further tests are needed.
    >


    So why were they able to identify Rubella and another strain of
    measles
    two paragraphs earlier and not in the previous paragraph?


    > The Legal Services Commission, which provides legal aid, decided to
    > withdraw funding in September. Some £15million had already been spent
    > pursuing the case. A further £l0million was thought to be needed to
    > bring the case to court.


    > A spokesman said: 'This was the first case in which research had been
    > funded by legal aid.


    > 'In retrospect it was not effective or appropriate for the LSC to fund
    > research. The courts are not the place to prove medical truths.'


    Of course the courts are not the place. The proper place is were
    scientific studies can be conducted, away from the rhetoric of
    ambulance chasers. If the "Legal Services Commission" backed off, it
    was because they realized that they did not have evidence that could
    stand up under scrutiny not because the court was the improper place
    for scientific research.

    One last thing, how long can the virus remain? I would have thought
    that the virus would have been eliminated by the immune system.
     
  4. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    john <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    >injections and autism?
    >
    >Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002
    >
    >A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed
    >after having the MMR vaccine as a toddler could be the 'missing link'
    >which proves the combined jab causes autism.


    The thing that really troubles me about all this foofaraw is that if
    the measles virus is really to blame, why weren't we seeing tons of
    autism back when wild measles was still rampant? It's not as though
    the strain in the vaccine was synthesized from nothing in the lab.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  5. Joe

    Joe Guest

    What is the purpose of these forums? I came in here, albeit for a
    light read between study subjects in my office, and find inflammatory
    uninsightful drivel. I feel bad for the people that have to stand up
    for medicine against such a slack-jaw bunch of yokels.

    IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF
    MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR HAVE LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF
    PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR
    OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION. Just because you
    know of a story that someone told you about someone they knew once
    doesn't mean that your story holds any water what-so-ever. Anecdotal
    evidence may touch you emotionally, but it doesn't mean that it ever
    offers anything but a scewed erronous view of a potential
    relationship/correlation.

    Joe
     
  6. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >From: [email protected] (Joe)

    Shouting Joe, telling others to shut up has no posting history.

    Ho hum.

    Another debunker hiding.

    PLONK!
     
  7. john

    john Guest

    [email protected] (Liz) wrote in message
    >
    > NNNN NNN OO0OOO !!!!
    > NNNNN NNN OOOO0OOOOO !!!!
    > NNNNNN NNN OOOOOO0OOOOO !!!!
    > NNNNNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    > NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOO0 !!!!
    > NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    > NNN NNNNNNN OOOO OOOO !!!!
    > NNN NNNNNN OOOOOO0OOOOO
    > NNN NNNNN OOOOOO0OOO ....
    > NNN NNNN OO0OOO ....
    >
    >


    That's really neat, the truth can tend to get one emotional. It may
    be difficult for you vaccine devotees to accept vaccines are unsafe
    but it is harder for the parents of vaccine damaged children who then
    have to put up with your sort of response as Hear the Silence pointed
    out so well http://www.whale.to/v/autism2.html

    "A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply
    the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold
    gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly
    preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic. --Dresden James
     
  8. john

    john Guest

    [email protected] (Joe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF
    > MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR HAVE LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF
    > PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR
    > OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION.


    Shouting wont make the truth go away.

    You don't like anecdotal evidence as it scuppers vaccination, and
    anyhow, read the post as wakefield and co are hardly anecdotal.

    The one scientist studying the children as opposed to the statistics
    thinks mmr is unsafe, so why anyone wants to think otherwise is down
    to religious type belief

    The last MMR was proven unsafe and withdrawn years after that was
    known.

    MMR kills as the government has shown by compensating some families,
    so hardly safe is it.

    the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it unsafe

    Junks science is churned out to claim mmr is safe, but they are too
    afraid to study the children like Wakefield, and too afraid to use
    100% unvaccinated children as controls--never been done in the history
    of vaccination

    Talking of lies, that is a lie MMR is safe, as the above point prove.

    And see how politics comes before truth and the children every time
    http://www.whale.to/vaccines/profits.html

    So study history, god forbid.
     
  9. "Liz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] (john) wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...

    > > Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    > > another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.

    >
    > They cannot continue because they don't have legal aid? Sounds like
    > the
    > barristers for the parents are a bunch of American Ambulance Chasers
    > and they realize they don't have credible evidence?


    Sorry, wrong side of the pond. The ambulance chasers speak the Queen's
    English.

    I am flatly amazed that there is government funding of litigation in the
    UK, especially since attorneys in the US are technically prohibited from
    doing sonder the Common Law. What is truly disgusting about this practice
    wrt the autism case, is that there attorneys have subjected the children to
    invasive medical procedures just to prove their cases.

    As the parent of two special children, we made the decision long ago to quit
    the blame game, and become full time paretns. We have never, ever, regreted
    this choice.
     
  10. "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    > injections and autism?


    It shows that you are the missing link between fact/reason and utter drivel.
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] (Joe) wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF
    > > MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR HAVE LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF
    > > PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR
    > > OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION.

    >
    > Shouting wont make the truth go away.


    And the truth is that vaccines have been shown to be safe. There is very
    little evidence that MMR causes autism, but a lot of evidence it doesn't.

    > You don't like anecdotal evidence as it scuppers vaccination, and
    > anyhow, read the post as wakefield and co are hardly anecdotal.


    No, I don't like anecdotal evidence because it doesn't have much use to
    determine if something causes something else. It good to illistrate what
    *might* be happening, but bad to determine what really is happening. For
    that, you need real studies, like the Danish study that showed that kids who
    got MMR were no more likely to get autism than those who did not get the
    vaccine.

    > The one scientist studying the children as opposed to the statistics
    > thinks mmr is unsafe, so why anyone wants to think otherwise is down
    > to religious type belief


    One scientist? Some scientist! He had to flee England because he is wacko.
    However, you have it backwards. You need to study statistics to understand
    what is really happening with the kids.

    > The last MMR was proven unsafe and withdrawn years after that was
    > known.


    This has nothing to do with autism.

    > MMR kills as the government has shown by compensating some families,
    > so hardly safe is it.


    Unfortunately, nothing is 100% safe. Certainly getting measles is not safe.
    Measles kills even more. I just hope that lesson is not learned again, with
    families forgoing life-saving protection in England.

    > the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it unsafe


    Bullshit.

    > Junks science is churned out to claim mmr is safe, but they are too
    > afraid to study the children like Wakefield, and too afraid to use
    > 100% unvaccinated children as controls--never been done in the history
    > of vaccination


    Because denying life-saving vaccines to children would be unethical.

    > Talking of lies, that is a lie MMR is safe, as the above point prove.


    All the points prove is that you can selectively take facts and make
    something look bad. But when you look at the big pictures, the world is much
    better off with MMR than with measles and rubella-related birth defects.

    > And see how politics comes before truth and the children every time
    > http://www.whale.to/vaccines/profits.html


    Actually, I am grateful that the drug companies can make some money off
    this. Otherwise, they wouldn't make the vaccine and kids would die from a
    preventable disease.

    Jeff

    > So study history, god forbid.
     
  12. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]
    >
    > "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR
    > > injections and autism?

    >
    > It shows that you are the missing link between fact/reason and utter

    drivel.

    Actually, it shows that there is no link between fact and reason and John's
    drivel.
     
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