Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by John, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?

    Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002

    A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed after having the MMR vaccine as
    a toddler could be the 'missing link' which proves the combined jab causes autism.

    Tests on James Sinclair, now 13, have found the measles virus - which is known to cause brain damage
    - in the fluid surrounding his brain and inside his spine.

    His mother Anna says she watched helplessly as his personality changed after being given the
    combined measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.

    The discovery of the measles virus inside his cerebro-spinal fluid is the most compelling evidence
    yet to support the theory that the MMR jab could lead to autism.

    Experts believe the virus from the injection travelled from his blood
    - where it is supposed to stay in order to produce immunity - into his spinal fluid, where it
    attacked his brain.

    Two leading neurologists who have studied James's case believe MMR is responsible for causing brain
    damage which sparked his autism.

    Fears of a link have led to record numbers of parents shunning the MMR jab, resulting in warnings
    that Britan is facing a growing threat of measles outbreaks.

    But further scientific tests which could definitively prove a causal link have stalled because the
    Government is refusing to fund a legal chal­lenge against the manufacturers of the vaccine.

    The teenager is among those suing vaccine manufacturers for compensation in a landmark legal battle,
    which is currently on hold after legal aid was withdrawn.

    Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.

    Yesterday, his mother Anna Sin­clair, of Evesham, Worcestershire, said: 'My son's body is suffused
    with the measles virus. It is in his brain. What is it doing there?

    'He has never had measles - only the MMR jab. There is no other logical explanation for the presence
    of this virus in his spinal fluid other than the MMR jab.'

    Other tests have also shown that the measles virus is in James's blood and inside bowel tissue.

    MRS Sinclair, 39, a marketing officer whose marriage col­lapsed under the strain of caring for
    James, added: 'I feel very strongly it needs to be investigated further. I want to know exactly what
    is wrong with my son in the hope that there may be something that can be done to make him better.

    'He is a lovely boy, but from the moment he had the vaccine he changed forever.'

    James is diagnosed as having 'atypical' autism, in that he can maintain eye contact and show
    affection. But he is only able to make basic noises to display his emotions and displays erratic
    behaviour such as refusing to wear clothes and ripping up belongings.

    Paediatric neurologist Dr Marcel Kinsbourne, a professor of cogni­tive studies at Tufts University
    in Massachusetts and the New School University, New York, is planning to give evidence support­ing
    the claim that MMR caused James's autism.

    He is backed by another eminent neurologist, Professor John Menkes, emeritus professor of neurology
    and paediatrics at the University of Califor­nia in Los Angeles.

    Yesterday, solicitor Richard Barr, of law firm Alexander Harris, which is representing the families
    in their compensation bid, said: 'I have talked to leading virologists and they say you should never
    find measles virus in the brain and it is a clear indication that it has caused damage. 'It is the
    equivalent of finding the smoking gun and the bullet.' Brain damage is already known to be a risk of
    suf­fering measles infection.

    At the age of 15 months, just before he was given a first dose of MMR, James was able to talk in
    short sentences and enjoyed singing nursery rhymes.

    After the first injection in 1992, he became withdrawn, lethargic and stopped speaking.

    Mrs Sinclair, who has two other children Jack, 14, and Rory, eight, said: 'He had a temperature and
    became very withdrawn. He would also take my hand and press it to his head. It was as if he was
    trying to tell me he had a terrible headache.'

    James was mistakenly given a second dose of MMR vaccine, just over a year later, instead of the Hib
    vaccine against a pneumococcal infection.

    'That seemed to compound things,' said Mrs Sinclair. 'He was struggling to find words, he would
    scream for hours on end.'

    A sample of spinal fluid was taken from James and six other children involved in the MMR court case
    in a hospital in Detroit last year.

    No NHS or private hospital in the UK would carry out the tests.

    PROFESSOR John O'Leary, of Trinity College in Dublin, then carried out screening at his private firm
    Unigenetics and found the measles virus in three samples of spinal fluid. Crucially, one of these
    contained an MMR strain of measles.

    In the case of James and another child, doctors were unable to iden­tify the strain of the virus.
    Further tests are needed.

    However, control studies on spinal fluid samples from 19 chil­dren with leukaemia found only one
    case with measles virus in spinal fluid. Children with leukaemia may be more suscepti­ble to viruses
    due to their illness.

    Three drug firms - Glaxo-SmithKline, Merck and Co and Aventis Pasteur MSD - are being sued over
    the MMR jab.

    The case is seen as a crucial test of whether MMR is safe.'

    The Legal Services Commission, which provides legal aid, decided to withdraw funding in September.
    Some £15million had already been spent pursuing the case. A further £l0million was thought to be
    needed to bring the case to court.

    A spokesman said: 'This was the first case in which research had been funded by legal aid.

    'In retrospect it was not effective or appropriate for the LSC to fund research. The courts are not
    the place to prove medical truths.'

    The Department of Health said it could not comment on any research which had discovered measles
    virus in spinal fluid until it had been independently reviewed.

    A spokesman said: 'We want to see parents given the facts - that there is no credible scientific
    evidence showing an association between MMR and autism.

    'It remains the best form of protection for your child.'

    [email protected]
     
    Tags:


  2. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?
    >
    > Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002
    >
    > A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed after having the MMR vaccine
    > as a toddler could be the 'missing link' which proves the combined jab causes autism.

    No he can't. The evidence clearly shows that autism is not caused by vaccines. Your continuing lies
    do not change facts.

    Garbage deleted.

    Jeff
     
  3. Liz

    Liz Guest

    [email protected] (john) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?

    NNNN NNN OO0OOO !!!! NNNNN NNN OOOO0OOOOO !!!! NNNNNN NNN OOOOOO0OOOOO !!!! NNNNNNN NNN OOOO OOOO
    !!!! NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOO0 !!!! NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!! NNN NNNNNNN OOOO OOOO !!!! NNN NNNNNN
    OOOOOO0OOOOO NNN NNNNN OOOOOO0OOO .... NNN NNNN OO0OOO ....

    >
    > But further scientific tests which could definitively prove a causal link have stalled because the
    > Government is refusing to fund a legal chal­lenge against the manufacturers of the vaccine.

    Why would the government fund a trial? Is it not a civil matter?

    > The teenager is among those suing vaccine manufacturers for compensation in a landmark legal
    > battle, which is currently on hold after legal aid was withdrawn.
    >
    > Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    > another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.

    They cannot continue because they don't have legal aid? Sounds like the barristers for the parents
    are a bunch of American Ambulance Chasers and they realize they don't have credible evidence?

    > Yesterday, his mother Anna Sin­clair, of Evesham, Worcestershire, said: 'My son's body is suffused
    > with the measles virus. It is in his brain. What is it doing there?
    >
    > 'He has never had measles - only the MMR jab. There is no other logical explanation for the
    > presence of this virus in his spinal fluid other than the MMR jab.'
    >
    > Other tests have also shown that the measles virus is in James's blood and inside bowel tissue.

    If the blood brain barrier was broken by the vaccine, what would have prevented the normal measles
    infection from doing the same?

    > MRS Sinclair, 39, a marketing officer whose marriage col­lapsed under the strain of caring for
    > James, added: 'I feel very strongly it needs to be investigated further. I want to know
    > exactly what is wrong with my son in the hope that there may be something that can be done to
    > make him better.

    > 'He is a lovely boy, but from the moment he had the vaccine he changed forever.'
    >

    If the change occurred the moment he was vaccinated then it could have been the needle used in the
    vaccination, the plastic in the syringe, a latex related response, the material used to wipe the
    injection site with alcohol or any number of things.

    >
    > Paediatric neurologist Dr Marcel Kinsbourne, a professor of cogni­tive studies at Tufts University
    > in Massachusetts and the New School University, New York, is planning to give evidence support­ing
    > the claim that MMR caused James's autism.
    >

    Dr. Marcel Kinsbourne is a Professor of Psychology at the New School of Social Sciences in New York
    City. Notice that is SOCIAL SCIENCE, not MEDICAL. Not what I would consider a grand endorsement
    for advanced capabilities in Neurology. He is not even the chair of his deparment. It seems
    strange that an individual who is the lead in his field of Paediatric Neurology would teach
    psychology and then not hold the department chair.

    If you use the Tuft's University search engine on their website to look for the name "Kinsbourne"
    you will not obtain any hits. He may have been there but he is not now, if the website is accurate.
    Search the Tuft's University website for Dr. Kinsbourne at http://directory.tufts.edu/ .

    > He is backed by another eminent neurologist, Professor John Menkes, emeritus professor of
    > neurology and paediatrics at the University of Califor­nia in Los Angeles.

    A search for Dr. Menkes at UCLA results in no hits also. Check the website
    http://www.directory.ucla.edu/ for UCLA Staff & Faculty. One would surmise an eminent neurologist
    would be herald by an institution such as UCLA.

    There is a Dr. John Menkes in Neurology at Cedars-Sinai. It would be interesting to hear his take on
    using the vaccine or just not vaccinating.

    > Yesterday, solicitor Richard Barr, of law firm Alexander Harris, which is representing the
    > families in their compensation bid, said: 'I have talked to leading virologists and they say you
    > should never find measles virus in the brain and it is a clear indication that it has caused
    > damage. 'It is the equivalent of finding the smoking gun and

    It begs to ask is the virus found the one used in the vaccine or another measles variant virus
    found in the child's brain?

    > the bullet.' Brain damage is already known to be a risk of suf­fering measles infection.

    Bingo John. The next question is how many brain damaged children would there be if they were not
    vaccinated?

    > PROFESSOR John O'Leary, of Trinity College in Dublin, then carried out screening at his private
    > firm Unigenetics and found the measles virus in three samples of spinal fluid. Crucially, one of
    > these contained an MMR strain of measles.

    Trinity College in Dublin did not have John O'leary listed in Paediatrics, Clinical Microbiology,
    Haematology, Immunology deparments. What department does he teach or work?

    Ah so there was another variant of measles found other then rubella?
    >
    >
    > In the case of James and another child, doctors were unable to iden­tify the strain of the virus.
    > Further tests are needed.
    >

    So why were they able to identify Rubella and another strain of measles two paragraphs earlier and
    not in the previous paragraph?

    > The Legal Services Commission, which provides legal aid, decided to withdraw funding in September.
    > Some £15million had already been spent pursuing the case. A further £l0million was thought to be
    > needed to bring the case to court.

    > A spokesman said: 'This was the first case in which research had been funded by legal aid.

    > 'In retrospect it was not effective or appropriate for the LSC to fund research. The courts are
    > not the place to prove medical truths.'

    Of course the courts are not the place. The proper place is were scientific studies can be
    conducted, away from the rhetoric of ambulance chasers. If the "Legal Services Commission" backed
    off, it was because they realized that they did not have evidence that could stand up under scrutiny
    not because the court was the improper place for scientific research.

    One last thing, how long can the virus remain? I would have thought that the virus would have been
    eliminated by the immune system.
     
  4. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    john <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?
    >
    >Daily Mail Dec 20, 2002
    >
    >A BOY who changed from being bright and chatty to mute and disturbed after having the MMR vaccine
    >as a toddler could be the 'missing link' which proves the combined jab causes autism.

    The thing that really troubles me about all this foofaraw is that if the measles virus is really to
    blame, why weren't we seeing tons of autism back when wild measles was still rampant? It's not as
    though the strain in the vaccine was synthesized from nothing in the lab.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  5. Joe

    Joe Guest

    What is the purpose of these forums? I came in here, albeit for a light read between study subjects
    in my office, and find inflammatory uninsightful drivel. I feel bad for the people that have to
    stand up for medicine against such a slack-jaw bunch of yokels.

    IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR HAVE
    LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP
    ABOUT YOUR OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION. Just because you know of a story that
    someone told you about someone they knew once doesn't mean that your story holds any water what-so-
    ever. Anecdotal evidence may touch you emotionally, but it doesn't mean that it ever offers anything
    but a scewed erronous view of a potential relationship/correlation.

    Joe
     
  6. "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?

    It shows that you are the missing link between fact/reason and utter drivel.
     
  7. John

    John Guest

    [email protected] (Liz) wrote in message
    >
    > NNNN NNN OO0OOO !!!! NNNNN NNN OOOO0OOOOO !!!! NNNNNN NNN OOOOOO0OOOOO !!!! NNNNNNN NNN OOOO
    > OOOO !!!! NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOO0 !!!! NNN NNNN NNN OOOO OOOO !!!! NNN NNNNNNN OOOO OOOO !!!! NNN
    > NNNNNN OOOOOO0OOOOO NNN NNNNN OOOOOO0OOO .... NNN NNNN OO0OOO ....
    >
    >

    That's really neat, the truth can tend to get one emotional. It may be difficult for you vaccine
    devotees to accept vaccines are unsafe but it is harder for the parents of vaccine damaged children
    who then have to put up with your sort of response as Hear the Silence pointed out so well
    http://www.whale.to/v/autism2.html

    "A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-
    packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem
    utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic. --Dresden James
     
  8. "Liz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (john) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > > Solicitors representing James and six other 'lead' cases will launch
    > > another court fight to try to reinstate legal aid in the New Year.
    >
    > They cannot continue because they don't have legal aid? Sounds like the barristers for the parents
    > are a bunch of American Ambulance Chasers and they realize they don't have credible evidence?

    Sorry, wrong side of the pond. The ambulance chasers speak the Queen's English.

    I am flatly amazed that there is government funding of litigation in the UK, especially since
    attorneys in the US are technically prohibited from doing sonder the Common Law. What is truly
    disgusting about this practice wrt the autism case, is that there attorneys have subjected the
    children to invasive medical procedures just to prove their cases.

    As the parent of two special children, we made the decision long ago to quit the blame game, and
    become full time paretns. We have never, ever, regreted this choice.
     
  9. John

    John Guest

    [email protected] (Joe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR HAVE
    > LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP
    > ABOUT YOUR OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION.

    Shouting wont make the truth go away.

    You don't like anecdotal evidence as it scuppers vaccination, and anyhow, read the post as wakefield
    and co are hardly anecdotal.

    The one scientist studying the children as opposed to the statistics thinks mmr is unsafe, so why
    anyone wants to think otherwise is down to religious type belief

    The last MMR was proven unsafe and withdrawn years after that was known.

    MMR kills as the government has shown by compensating some families, so hardly safe is it.

    the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it unsafe

    Junks science is churned out to claim mmr is safe, but they are too afraid to study the children
    like Wakefield, and too afraid to use 100% unvaccinated children as controls--never been done in the
    history of vaccination

    Talking of lies, that is a lie MMR is safe, as the above point prove.

    And see how politics comes before truth and the children every time
    http://www.whale.to/vaccines/profits.html

    So study history, god forbid.
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]...
    >
    > "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Does this troubled teenager prove there IS a link between MMR injections and autism?
    >
    > It shows that you are the missing link between fact/reason and utter
    drivel.

    Actually, it shows that there is no link between fact and reason and John's drivel.
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Joe) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, NOR THE METHODS OF MEDICAL RESEARCH, AND/OR
    > > HAVE LITTLE EXPERIENCE WITH THE CONCEPTS OF PATIENT HEALTH MANAGEMENT THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
    > > SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR OWN PERSONAL FEAR MONGERING AND LIE DISEMMINATION.
    >
    > Shouting wont make the truth go away.

    And the truth is that vaccines have been shown to be safe. There is very little evidence that MMR
    causes autism, but a lot of evidence it doesn't.

    > You don't like anecdotal evidence as it scuppers vaccination, and anyhow, read the post as
    > wakefield and co are hardly anecdotal.

    No, I don't like anecdotal evidence because it doesn't have much use to determine if something
    causes something else. It good to illistrate what *might* be happening, but bad to determine what
    really is happening. For that, you need real studies, like the Danish study that showed that kids
    who got MMR were no more likely to get autism than those who did not get the vaccine.

    > The one scientist studying the children as opposed to the statistics thinks mmr is unsafe, so why
    > anyone wants to think otherwise is down to religious type belief

    One scientist? Some scientist! He had to flee England because he is wacko. However, you have it
    backwards. You need to study statistics to understand what is really happening with the kids.

    > The last MMR was proven unsafe and withdrawn years after that was known.

    This has nothing to do with autism.

    > MMR kills as the government has shown by compensating some families, so hardly safe is it.

    Unfortunately, nothing is 100% safe. Certainly getting measles is not safe. Measles kills even
    more. I just hope that lesson is not learned again, with families forgoing life-saving protection
    in England.

    > the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it unsafe

    Bullshit.

    > Junks science is churned out to claim mmr is safe, but they are too afraid to study the children
    > like Wakefield, and too afraid to use 100% unvaccinated children as controls--never been done in
    > the history of vaccination

    Because denying life-saving vaccines to children would be unethical.

    > Talking of lies, that is a lie MMR is safe, as the above point prove.

    All the points prove is that you can selectively take facts and make something look bad. But when
    you look at the big pictures, the world is much better off with MMR than with measles and rubella-
    related birth defects.

    > And see how politics comes before truth and the children every time
    > http://www.whale.to/vaccines/profits.html

    Actually, I am grateful that the drug companies can make some money off this. Otherwise, they
    wouldn't make the vaccine and kids would die from a preventable disease.

    Jeff

    > So study history, god forbid.
     
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