doing my civic duty - by bike

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by davek, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. davek

    davek Guest

    I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    loss of earnings to consider).

    Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    allowance for driving to court.)

    Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.

    d.
     
    Tags:


  2. Kinesin

    Kinesin Guest

    davek wrote:
    > I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    > off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    > that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    > loss of earnings to consider).
    >
    > Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    > information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    > travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    > allowance for driving to court.)
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >
    > d.
    >

    Seems low at 6p/mile as normal business mileage is 20p/mile - the cost
    of civil duty hey?? ;-)

    Check the courts have showers...

    --
    XBL GameTag: Kinesin

    (clear the weather to reply)
     
  3. sean

    sean Guest

    davek wrote:
    > I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    > off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    > that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    > loss of earnings to consider).
    >
    > Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    > information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    > travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    > allowance for driving to court.)
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >
    > d.


    Some years ago I claimed the first few days. But I was never actually
    picked for a case. The Prosecution always rejected me. However I do
    remember going in the court lift when leaving. It was one of those
    'talking lifts'. On the doors closing it would say "Going
    Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    thought..........
    Sean.
     
  4. davek

    davek Guest

    Kinesin wrote:
    > Seems low at 6p/mile as normal business mileage is 20p/mile - the cost
    > of civil duty hey?? ;-)


    It's not bad considering that those who drive their cars to court get
    just 2.5p a mile.

    > Check the courts have showers...


    Hmm, good point.

    d.
     
  5. davek

    davek Guest

    sean wrote:
    >The Prosecution always rejected me.


    Was this anything to do with turning up to court in lycra? ;-)

    > On the doors closing it would say "Going
    > Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    > thought..........


    Arf!

    d.
     
  6. Nobody Here

    Nobody Here Guest

    Kinesin <[email protected]> wrote:
    > davek wrote:
    >> I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    >> off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    >> that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    >> loss of earnings to consider).
    >>
    >> Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    >> information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    >> travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    >> allowance for driving to court.)
    >>
    >> Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    >> worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    >> hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    >> would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >>
    >> d.
    >>

    > Seems low at 6p/mile as normal business mileage is 20p/mile - the cost
    > of civil duty hey?? ;-)


    However, I guess it's not so bad given that the revenue might try
    to describe your trip to court as a journey to and from work and
    the allowance therefore liable for tax. ;-)

    --
    Nobby
     
  7. "sean" <[email protected]>typed


    > Some years ago I claimed the first few days. But I was never actually
    > picked for a case. The Prosecution always rejected me. However I do
    > remember going in the court lift when leaving. It was one of those
    > 'talking lifts'. On the doors closing it would say "Going
    > Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    > thought..........


    A bit like the Labour Ward with 'PUSH' on the doors...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
    Edgware.
     
  8. John_Kane

    John_Kane Guest

    davek wrote:
    > I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    > off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    > that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    > loss of earnings to consider).
    >
    > Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    > information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    > travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    > allowance for driving to court.)
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.


    Having worked for a few gov't entities, albeit in Canada not the UK I
    would say claim it even if it is a hassle. Often a minor progarm like
    this is a matter of "use it or lose it". The cycling milage would seem
    to help validate cycling as a normal means of transportation.

    If it is not used someone is likely to come along in a few months or
    years and remove it and the next time anyone asks a gov't dept for
    cycling mileage the answer will be: "Oh the court service tried it but
    nobody used it; it's just not worth doing". An anti-bike campaigner
    then can say "We can't even pay people to ride their bikes"

    And think of the satisfaction you get when you wave your pint at a
    fellow jury-man sitting in his car stuck in traffic :)

    John Kane
    Kingston ON
     
  9. Nick Kew

    Nick Kew Guest

    davek wrote:
    > I've been called up for jury service in October


    So you're being forced to participate in a corrupt charade
    that is based on depriving 12 innocent people of liberty and
    livelihood for an *unlimited* period[1].

    There's only one way to treat that: conscientious non-cooperation.
    Noncooperation means you must refuse to take notice of the
    theatrical performance in the courtroom - which side has the
    more accomplished storyteller. You must simply acquit:

    * if the accused hasn't done whatever they're charged with, then
    acquittal is obvious.
    * if the accused has done it, even if you get a Shipman or Huntley,
    it's an altogether less significant crime[2] than that into which
    you are coopted. In order not to make yourself complicit in the
    greater crime, you must still acquit.

    [1] At the extreme end - the OJ Simpson jury were locked up
    for, in total, longer than he would have been if convicted.
    [2] Almost certainly. I suppose if The Liar came on trial
    for illegal wars, there could be an argument to the contrary.


    --
    Nick Kew
     
  10. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I did jury service at Harrow Crown Court a year and a half ago and cycled
    there every day from Edgware, a grand total of a six mile round trip. It
    took all on ten minutes at a leisurely pace and was by far the quickest
    method (car would have been 20-25mins due to traffic at the peak and bus
    (186 or 340 Helen!) would've been 25-30mins).
    It wasn't far enough to warrant any lycra or showers and I rode in wearing
    the clothes I wore for jury service.

    Claiming was very easy, just filled in a form and they paid it. It actually
    pays more not to buy their food or drink, take your own. I got more money
    from doing that than for cycling in! I think it was something like £3 per
    day in food allowance, as opposed to my 36p per day cycling.

    Interestingly, they didn't check how anyone came in, I overheard another
    juror saying how they walked the half mile or so every day but claimed the
    70p each way for bus fare. Despite working for London Underground and
    getting free travel I did not see it as a good move to attempt to defraud
    the legal system and my claims remained honest!

    Bob.

    "davek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    > off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    > that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    > loss of earnings to consider).
    >
    > Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    > information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    > travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    > allowance for driving to court.)
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >
    > d.
    >
     
  11. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    davek wrote:

    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.


    Didn't bother: wasn't going to claim 50p! Aside from anything else
    it'll cost 100 times that to administer, and it's all coming out of
    public taxation (i.e., my money at some level) anyway, so unless
    it's a fairly tidy sum I'd just file under "can't be arsed".

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  12. "Bob" <[email protected]>typed


    > I did jury service at Harrow Crown Court a year and a half ago and cycled
    > there every day from Edgware, a grand total of a six mile round trip. It
    > took all on ten minutes at a leisurely pace and was by far the quickest
    > method (car would have been 20-25mins due to traffic at the peak and bus
    > (186 or 340 Helen!) would've been 25-30mins).
    > It wasn't far enough to warrant any lycra or showers and I rode in wearing
    > the clothes I wore for jury service.


    David's probably doing Jury Service there in the autumn (they called
    him, then cancelled in the spring, after he requested deferment)

    I suspect he'll cycle there as it would be two buses each way from here
    (114 + H9 or 32 + 186). This would take ages.

    > Claiming was very easy, just filled in a form and they paid it. It actually
    > pays more not to buy their food or drink, take your own. I got more money
    > from doing that than for cycling in! I think it was something like £3 per
    > day in food allowance, as opposed to my 36p per day cycling.


    > Interestingly, they didn't check how anyone came in, I overheard another
    > juror saying how they walked the half mile or so every day but claimed the
    > 70p each way for bus fare. Despite working for London Underground and
    > getting free travel I did not see it as a good move to attempt to defraud
    > the legal system and my claims remained honest!


    David could claim £3 for a One Day Bus Pass, but won't if he rides.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
    Edgware.
     
  13. Nick Kew

    Nick Kew Guest

    Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
    > On the doors closing it would say "Going
    >>Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    >>thought..........

    >
    >
    > A bit like the Labour Ward with 'PUSH' on the doors...
    >

    Is that what comes nine months after the bar with "PULL" on the door?

    --
    Not me guv
     
  14. Badger

    Badger Guest

    Kinesin wrote:

    > davek wrote:
    >
    >> I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    >> off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    >> that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    >> loss of earnings to consider).


    Claim for everything!
    Discharged for early for the day? Spend the credit of your food card
    before you leave!

    >> Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    >> worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    >> hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    >> would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >>
    >> d.

    See above.
    >>

    > Seems low at 6p/mile as normal business mileage is 20p/mile - the cost
    > of civil duty hey?? ;-)
    >
    > Check the courts have showers...
    >

    You'll be the cleanest there, if you don't want to sit wear a suit and
    tie and look professional, you'll stand out like a sore thumb with most
    being scruffy can't be bothered to wash types....BTDTWTTS sticky carpet,
    mucky seats, chewing gum everywhere, lovely way to spend a day....
     
  15. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Nick Kew wrote:
    > davek wrote:
    >
    >> I've been called up for jury service in October

    >
    >
    > So you're being forced to participate in a corrupt charade
    > that is based on depriving 12 innocent people of liberty and
    > livelihood for an *unlimited* period[1].
    >
    > There's only one way to treat that: conscientious non-cooperation.
    > Noncooperation means you must refuse to take notice of the
    > theatrical performance in the courtroom - which side has the
    > more accomplished storyteller. You must simply acquit:
    >
    > * if the accused hasn't done whatever they're charged with, then
    > acquittal is obvious.
    > * if the accused has done it, even if you get a Shipman or Huntley,
    > it's an altogether less significant crime[2] than that into which
    > you are coopted. In order not to make yourself complicit in the
    > greater crime, you must still acquit.
    >


    And the Chav that's flattened a cyclist? Acquit?


    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  16. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Peter Clinch wrote:
    > davek wrote:
    >
    > > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.

    >
    > Didn't bother: wasn't going to claim 50p! Aside from anything else
    > it'll cost 100 times that to administer, and it's all coming out of
    > public taxation (i.e., my money at some level) anyway, so unless
    > it's a fairly tidy sum I'd just file under "can't be arsed".


    Funnily enough, I have been dragged up for jury service in a couple of
    weeks time. I'll phone them and see what the cycle parking is like -
    Any ideas Pete?

    ...d
     
  17. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
    > "sean" <[email protected]>typed
    >
    >
    >
    >>Some years ago I claimed the first few days. But I was never actually
    >>picked for a case. The Prosecution always rejected me. However I do
    >>remember going in the court lift when leaving. It was one of those
    >>'talking lifts'. On the doors closing it would say "Going
    >>Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    >>thought..........

    >
    >
    > A bit like the Labour Ward with 'PUSH' on the doors...
    >


    Or the Maternity Unit with the Deliveries at the Rear sign...

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  18. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    davek wrote:
    >
    > Anyway, got a pack of info through from them the other day with
    > information on allowable expenses, which mentioned 6.5p per mile if you
    > travel to court by bike. (Which is considerably more generous than the
    > allowance for driving to court.)
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any experience of claiming this - is it
    > worth the bother? or is it one of those things that's just too much
    > hassle? I was probably going to ride my bike to court anyway, but it
    > would be good if I could claim a few beer tokens by way of recompense.
    >


    You should be able to claim the 6.5p from the Court and the 20p-6.5p
    back on your tax form

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  19. On 30 Aug 2005 09:53:23 -0700, "davek" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I've been called up for jury service in October - I already put them
    >off once but looks like I won't be able to get out of it this time (not
    >that I mind doing my civic duty, but being self-employed there's the
    >loss of earnings to consider).


    If you manage to get yourself charged with a criminal offence or
    sectioned under the Mental Health Act, IIRC, you can get out of jury
    service. I think that nuns and monks are exempt too.
     
  20. sean

    sean Guest

    Nick Kew wrote:
    > Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
    > > On the doors closing it would say "Going
    > >>Down".......... An unfortunate phrase for those not yet sentenced I
    > >>thought..........

    > >
    > >
    > > A bit like the Labour Ward with 'PUSH' on the doors...
    > >

    > Is that what comes nine months after the bar with "PULL" on the door?
    >
    > --
    > Not me guv


    For years that always made me chuckle after just smoothing out my
    eyebrows. And now someone as put it on the internet........ Now
    Pull..... Now wash your hands.......
    Sean.
     
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