Don't Blame the Driver?



P

PiledHigher

Guest
What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
out...
I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.

In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
sorry not for you...



Don't blame driver, say parents
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20626721-662,00.html

PARENTS of four boys killed when their car slammed into trees have made
a public plea not to blame the young driver for the tragic accident.

The deaths of the school friends in the accident near Byron Bay
yesterday have devastated their community.
They had been to a birthday celebration and were on their way home.

In a remarkable escape, a fifth friend -- the P-plate driver --
survived the horrific collision with only minor injuries.

Corey New, 16, Mitch Everleigh, 16, Bryce Wells, 17, and Paul Morris,
16, died instantly when their car lost control and hit several trees
about 12.30am yesterday. Tyler Green, 17, was taken to Lismore Base
Hospital.

Corey's parents, Mark and Anne New, said they wanted Tyler to recover
with a clear conscience.

"Tyler is doing it really tough too because he's lost four friends,"
Mrs New said.

The boys, who went to school together in Goonellabah near Lismore, had
been at a birthday dinner for another friend and were heading home from
celebrating in Byron Bay.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
>
> What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
> out...
> I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.
>
> In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
> lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
> sorry not for you...

<snip>

That may not necessarily be true. The car may have had a
mechanical. Anything could've happened. Maybe it was his
mother's car and she'd gotten it serviced at a dodgy
mechanic and there was some fault not picked up... maybe it
was random. Maybe someone tampered with the car. Maybe one
of the other kids in the car leaned across and covered his
eyes or something as a joke that turned very wrong. Or maybe
it was his fault, maybe he was drinking, or maybe he lost
concentration. But there's no info so we can't say.

A very good friend of mine nearly got killed when got a
sudden flat/blowout but the tyre actually wrapped itself up
and around the axle or something and that wheel just
stopped, the bum end of the car swung around so she came to
a dead halt on the Bruce Highway (110km/h zone) facing the
oncoming traffic. This was only a few weeks of very limited
driving after a service. The mechanics who fixed her car
later said they couldn't see what had done it, it was
random. The outcome could've been very different.

I do agree with you that "the car lost control" is bullsh!t
- whatever the reason for it the accident, the driver lost
control.

T
 
P

PiledHigher

Guest
Tamyka Bell wrote:
> PiledHigher wrote:
> >
> > What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
> > out...
> > I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.
> >
> > In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
> > lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
> > sorry not for you...

> <snip>
>
> That may not necessarily be true. The car may have had a
> mechanical. Anything could've happened. Maybe it was his
> mother's car and she'd gotten it serviced at a dodgy
> mechanic and there was some fault not picked up... maybe it
> was random. Maybe someone tampered with the car. Maybe one
> of the other kids in the car leaned across and covered his
> eyes or something as a joke that turned very wrong. Or maybe
> it was his fault, maybe he was drinking, or maybe he lost
> concentration. But there's no info so we can't say.
>
> A very good friend of mine nearly got killed when got a
> sudden flat/blowout but the tyre actually wrapped itself up
> and around the axle or something and that wheel just
> stopped, the bum end of the car swung around so she came to
> a dead halt on the Bruce Highway (110km/h zone) facing the
> oncoming traffic. This was only a few weeks of very limited
> driving after a service. The mechanics who fixed her car
> later said they couldn't see what had done it, it was
> random. The outcome could've been very different.
>
> I do agree with you that "the car lost control" is bullsh!t
> - whatever the reason for it the accident, the driver lost
> control.
>
> T


Mechanical incidents are indicated in a very low percentage of all
accidents, alcohol and drugs in a large proprotion of fatal accidents.

Statistics suggest that it most likely be the drivers fault.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > PiledHigher wrote:
> > >
> > > What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
> > > out...
> > > I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.
> > >
> > > In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
> > > lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
> > > sorry not for you...

> > <snip>
> >
> > That may not necessarily be true. The car may have had a
> > mechanical. Anything could've happened. Maybe it was his
> > mother's car and she'd gotten it serviced at a dodgy
> > mechanic and there was some fault not picked up... maybe it
> > was random. Maybe someone tampered with the car. Maybe one
> > of the other kids in the car leaned across and covered his
> > eyes or something as a joke that turned very wrong. Or maybe
> > it was his fault, maybe he was drinking, or maybe he lost
> > concentration. But there's no info so we can't say.
> >
> > A very good friend of mine nearly got killed when got a
> > sudden flat/blowout but the tyre actually wrapped itself up
> > and around the axle or something and that wheel just
> > stopped, the bum end of the car swung around so she came to
> > a dead halt on the Bruce Highway (110km/h zone) facing the
> > oncoming traffic. This was only a few weeks of very limited
> > driving after a service. The mechanics who fixed her car
> > later said they couldn't see what had done it, it was
> > random. The outcome could've been very different.
> >
> > I do agree with you that "the car lost control" is bullsh!t
> > - whatever the reason for it the accident, the driver lost
> > control.
> >
> > T

>
> Mechanical incidents are indicated in a very low percentage of all
> accidents, alcohol and drugs in a large proprotion of fatal accidents.
>
> Statistics suggest that it most likely be the drivers fault.


I concur - but defer judgement until more info is available.
I like to save harsh judgement for the [email protected] who throw
things out windows at me.

Tam
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Couldn't agree more. This kid ought to grow up knowing HE was RESPONSIBLE for KILLING his mates.

All reports indicate SPEED (excessive velocity I assume - not drugs).

Let the kid know he was at fault, that way he'll learn a heavy lesson that hopefully he'll never forget.

A clear conscious would be a dangerous thing here.

Parents are sometimes IDIOTS.

As for the language .. stupid. A car can't do anything. The driver lost it.

If it was the tyre, he should have checked them before starting.

If it was debris on the road - travel slowly enough to see and avoid it.

There is no such thing as a car 'accident'.

Scotty

PiledHigher said:
What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
out...
I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.

In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
sorry not for you...



Don't blame driver, say parents
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20626721-662,00.html

PARENTS of four boys killed when their car slammed into trees have made
a public plea not to blame the young driver for the tragic accident.

The deaths of the school friends in the accident near Byron Bay
yesterday have devastated their community.
They had been to a birthday celebration and were on their way home.

In a remarkable escape, a fifth friend -- the P-plate driver --
survived the horrific collision with only minor injuries.

Corey New, 16, Mitch Everleigh, 16, Bryce Wells, 17, and Paul Morris,
16, died instantly when their car lost control and hit several trees
about 12.30am yesterday. Tyler Green, 17, was taken to Lismore Base
Hospital.

Corey's parents, Mark and Anne New, said they wanted Tyler to recover
with a clear conscience.

"Tyler is doing it really tough too because he's lost four friends,"
Mrs New said.

The boys, who went to school together in Goonellabah near Lismore, had
been at a birthday dinner for another friend and were heading home from
celebrating in Byron Bay.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
scotty72 wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more. This kid ought to grow up knowing HE was
> RESPONSIBLE for KILLING his mates.
>
> All reports indicate SPEED (excessive velocity I assume - not drugs).


My apologies - I haven't seen those other reports, only the
one that got posted.

> Let the kid know he was at fault, that way he'll learn a heavy lesson
> that hopefully he'll never forget.


It would really be more effective if other people didn't
forget it.

> A clear conscious would be a dangerous thing here.
>
> Parents are sometimes IDIOTS.
>
> As for the language .. stupid. A car can't do anything. The driver lost
> it.
>
> If it was the tyre, he should have checked them before starting.


Should he also become a qualified auto mechanic, in order to
do a 100% safety check on the vehicle prior to each
occurrence of driving? How much do you know about cars, to
identify that it's safe to drive? We have a certain element
of trust in the people we pay to do this work for us.

I mean, one of the things I love most about my bike is that
I can check pretty much everything on it (with the exception
of cracks in the frame that haven't made it to visible yet,
etc.)

> If it was debris on the road - travel slowly enough to see and avoid
> it.


What road doesn't have debris on it, often very small? Okay,
I agree with you entirely. Let's set every road in Australia
to have a maximum speed limit of 50km/h. My bike only goes
faster than that downhill anyway, and my scooter not much
faster.

> There is no such thing as a car 'accident'.


Agreed. But whose fault is it?

If someone partially cut your brakes, so that they failed
after the third time you used them - is that your fault? How
about if a kid drops a rock off an overpass onto your car -
is that your fault? How about if someone in the car grabs at
the steering wheel - is that your fault?

T
 
P

PiledHigher

Guest
And a much more appropriate article from teh Age
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20628766-421,00.html

Calls for P-plate restrictionsBy staff writers and wires
October 23, 2006 11:00am
Article from: Font size: + -
Send this article: Print Email
THE mother of one of four teenagers killed in a car crash in northern
NSW today supported calls to raise the age drivers could obtain their
P-plate.

Ann New's 16-year-old son Corey was a passenger in the car that veered
off the road at Broken Head and hit several trees yesterday.

Corey and three friends, Bryce Wells, 17, Mitchell Eveleigh, 17, and
Paul Morris, 16, died at the scene. The 17-year-old driver was taken to
Lismore Base Hospital with only minor injuries.

Ms New said Corey was due to take over as school captain at Lismore's
Kadina High School next year.

She said she supported calls to raise the age for P-plate and to limit
the number of passengers they could carry.

"Always after the fact it's more important to you, when you hear this
discussion, but a tragedy on this scale just wouldn't happen if these
restrictions were in force," she said on ABC radio.

"You don't want one child to die let alone four, but if there was one
passenger per P-plater this immense tragedy would not be affecting so
many."

Earlier today the Pedestrian Council of Australia (PCA) called for the
minimum age of P-plate drivers to be raised from 17 to 18 and for the
young drivers to be restricted to carrying on passenger between 11pm
and dawn.

"The evidence is overwhelming. Young drivers, late at night, with a
car full of friends, are a recipe for disaster, especially on Thursday,
Friday and Saturday nights," PCA President Harold Scruby said

"Victoria has had 18 as the minimum age for P-plate drivers for over
a decade, he said." They have the lowest Road Toll per capita in the
nation. After all, you can't drink, vote, or go to war until you are
18, so why should you be allowed to be in control of a lethal weapon
until you are legally an adult'
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Tamyka Bell said:
scotty72 wrote:

> If it was the tyre, he should have checked them before starting.


Should he also become a qualified auto mechanic, in order to
do a 100% safety check on the vehicle prior to each
occurrence of driving? How much do you know about cars, to
identify that it's safe to drive? We have a certain element
of trust in the people we pay to do this work for us.

I mean, one of the things I love most about my bike is that
I can check pretty much everything on it (with the exception
of cracks in the frame that haven't made it to visible yet,
etc.)

If you're too stupid to see tyres that are worn, or feel that they are unbalanced or underinflated, you really ought to be off the road.

As for mechanical knowledge. It is far too easy to get a licence. I agree with you, drivers should have to pass a basic mechanical test before they get a licence.

Pilots trust the mechanics at the airport; but' they are also required and responsible for pre-flight safety checks.

It is simply not good enough for a ditsy teen to jump in a car and think, petrol goes here, key goes here - end of story.


> If it was debris on the road - travel slowly enough to see and avoid
> it.


What road doesn't have debris on it, often very small?
It is very unlikely that little bits of debris (like shards of glass) are going to send modern car tyres (unless they are badly worn - see above about checking) exploding out of control. Modern tyres just don't do that at normal driving speeds. If it were debris, then it would be something big which should been seen by a person driving at a safe speed.

Okay,
I agree with you entirely. Let's set every road in Australia
to have a maximum speed limit of 50km/h. My bike only goes
faster than that downhill anyway, and my scooter not much
faster.
Not such a bad idea. The whole idea of hurtling along a country lane complete darkness at 100 km/h is dangerous. This is especially true for young drivers who think they can drive.

I think that young drivers should be severely curtailled in their speed and the number of passengers they can carry.

> There is no such thing as a car 'accident'.


Agreed. But whose fault is it?
If someone partially cut your brakes, so that they failed
after the third time you used them - is that your fault? How
about if a kid drops a rock off an overpass onto your car -
is that your fault? How about if someone in the car grabs at
the steering wheel - is that your fault?
It didn't say it is always the fault of the driver. I simply said there was no such thing as a car 'accident'. Assuming one of your grant conspiracies re: sabotage is true, then that is clearly not an accident. In the case of the guy at Byron Bay, their ought to be severe punishment assuming the car was doctored.
 
T

The Real Andy

Guest
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:48:04 +1000, scotty72
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Couldn't agree more. This kid ought to grow up knowing HE was
>RESPONSIBLE for KILLING his mates.


I think this will happen regardless of blame.

>
>All reports indicate SPEED (excessive velocity I assume - not drugs).
>
>Let the kid know he was at fault, that way he'll learn a heavy lesson
>that hopefully he'll never forget.


I think this will happen anyway.

>
>A clear conscious would be a dangerous thing here.


A clear conscious would only result in a mental/psycotic disorder.

>
>Parents are sometimes IDIOTS.


Sometimes they are. Are you a parent?

>
>As for the language .. stupid. A car can't do anything. The driver lost
>it.


Like the saying goes, guns dont kill people....


>If it was the tyre, he should have checked them before starting.


I bet you dont check every aspect of your car before departing.


>If it was debris on the road - travel slowly enough to see and avoid
>it.


It was night time. Have you ever driven a country road at night time.
Have you ever had the **** scared out of you by an animal?

>
>There is no such thing as a car 'accident'.


OK, so you have never ever done anything wrong? you have never made a
mistake? You are perfect?


More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
IS it generally accepted or not?
 
P

PiledHigher

Guest
The Real Andy wrote:
> More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
> IS it generally accepted or not?


This is not OT, we have to share the road with these apologists for
incosiderate, inattentive, inexperienced drivers.

Fault should be first assunmed towards the driver in every accident,
until evidence proves otherwise.

Do you want somebody's mum saying don't blame him when you are dead?

PiledHigher
 
B

Bleve

Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
> The Real Andy wrote:
> > More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
> > IS it generally accepted or not?

>
> This is not OT, we have to share the road with these apologists for
> incosiderate, inattentive, inexperienced drivers.
>
> Fault should be first assunmed towards the driver in every accident,
> until evidence proves otherwise.
>
> Do you want somebody's mum saying don't blame him when you are dead?


If he's dead, it doesn't matter.

The question revolves around the usual conflict between justice
(revenge, with a pretty name), deterrance and prevention of individual
re-offence.

You (piledlower) are seeking revenge, it seems. Not deterrance (which
isn't effective against kids much anyway, they're invincible, remember
when you were?)
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
The Real Andy said:
More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
IS it generally accepted or not?

Er? The discussion is about road user attitudes and related issues. Which never seems to be off-topic on this newsgroup/forum.
 
P

PiledHigher

Guest
Bleve wrote:
> PiledHigher wrote:
> > The Real Andy wrote:
> > > More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
> > > IS it generally accepted or not?

> >
> > This is not OT, we have to share the road with these apologists for
> > incosiderate, inattentive, inexperienced drivers.
> >
> > Fault should be first assunmed towards the driver in every accident,
> > until evidence proves otherwise.
> >
> > Do you want somebody's mum saying don't blame him when you are dead?

>
> If he's dead, it doesn't matter.
>
> The question revolves around the usual conflict between justice
> (revenge, with a pretty name), deterrance and prevention of individual
> re-offence.
>
> You (piledlower) are seeking revenge, it seems. Not deterrance (which
> isn't effective against kids much anyway, they're invincible, remember
> when you were?)


I'm not seeking revenge, I'm suggesting that just because mummy & daddy
say so you are resolved of being responsible, particularly when you
take on an adult task like driving.

I'm saying, from initial reports the kid looks responsible but we can't
say so because it might hurt his self estimee.
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
The Real Andy said:
I think this will happen regardless of blame.
Not, if is as seems, his parents give him a big hug and say - 'there, there - good boy - it wasn't your fault"

>
>All reports indicate SPEED (excessive velocity I assume - not drugs).
>
>Let the kid know he was at fault, that way he'll learn a heavy lesson
>that hopefully he'll never forget.


I think this will happen anyway.
Let's hope he does

>
>A clear conscious would be a dangerous thing here.


A clear conscious would only result in a mental/psycotic disorder.
You make your bed, you lie in it.
You have to swallow your medicine.



>
>Parents are sometimes IDIOTS.


Sometimes they are. Are you a parent?
Yes, and I make sure she takes responsibilty for what she does. She once took something from a shop without paying for it - once we got out of the shop she produced it from her pocket - I realised - she confessed. I marched her into the shop, made her appologise (pay for it - I deducted it from her piggy bank) then threw it in the bin.

She was thoroughly humiliated - but guess what? She later told me she was ashamed and was sorry.


>
>As for the language .. stupid. A car can't do anything. The driver lost
>it.


Like the saying goes, guns dont kill people....
True


>If it was the tyre, he should have checked them before starting.

I bet you dont check every aspect of your car before departing.
1) I hardly use the car anymore

2) I do tend to kick the tyres and check the lights up against the windows as I drive off. The things that are likely to cause an accident.

>If it was debris on the road - travel slowly enough to see and avoid
>it.


It was night time. Have you ever driven a country road at night time.
Have you ever had the **** scared out of you by an animal?
Yes, when I was about 20-22, I was driving up from Bris - Cairns. Just north of Mackay, I bloody wallaby (David Campesie I think :)) jumped in front of my headlights. I hit it. Smashed my car up good.

Went to dad expecting sympathy (and money towards the excess) as 'it wasn't my fault'.

Dad make a comment like, 'Tough titties (I cleaned it up) it WAS your fault - you should expect the unexpected and drive slow enough to avoid it.'

When I explained that this would leave me without a car for a few weeks until I could raise the excess

"Shouldda thought of that - don't do anything you can't afford - thank the stars you weren't killed and stop whinning"

Now, I do drive carefully. If it is dark, I slow down; if there is long grass up along the shoulder, I slow down and stuff the impatient driver behind me.

Lesson

I hated my father for being a ******* until I grew up (no 22 is not all grown up - especially for dangerous thing like driving) - now I think that was the best thing he could have ever done.



>
>There is no such thing as a car 'accident'.


OK, so you have never ever done anything wrong? you have never made a
mistake? You are perfect?
See above

Yes, we all make mistakes - but my point is that this bloke should never forget what he did. That way he'll learn. More importantly, he should be a man and be responsible - not hide under mummy's skirt.



SCotty
 
B

Brett Martin

Guest
"PiledHigher" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


>>
>> T

>
> Mechanical incidents are indicated in a very low percentage of all
> accidents, alcohol and drugs in a large proprotion of fatal accidents.
>
> Statistics suggest that it most likely be the drivers fault.
>


Just watch the figures there a bit. Light vehicles involved in accidents
are not normally impounded for a proper inspection and serious mechanical
faults go undetected regularly. Anything really obvious, like bald tyres,
is usually picked up.

Alcohol and drugs can be tested post mortem or taken from medical reports
by a coroner.

It's like fatigue, there are indicators but it is difficult to prove as a
casual factor while alcohol, drugs and sometimes speed (which is becoming
more difficult to determine) are easier to identify so normally wind up on
accident reports as the casual factor. Basically police accident reports
don't tell us anything except that being on/near a road can be dangerous.

Cheers

BrettM
 
J

John Henderson

Guest
The Real Andy wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:48:04 +1000, scotty72
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Couldn't agree more. This kid ought to grow up knowing HE was
>>RESPONSIBLE for KILLING his mates.

>
> I think this will happen regardless of blame.


If he's a decent kid, he'll have a very hard time with his
conscience for the rest of his life anyway. The sooner he's
able to move on a little from this tragedy the better.

And if he isn't a decent kid, it's going to be a hard job giving
him a conscience.

40 years ago, I had a mate hit and kill a 6 YO boy who ran onto
the road from some bushes. No blame was attributed. But it
was a life-changing experience, and not for the better.

John
 
T

The Real Andy

Guest
On 23 Oct 2006 03:14:01 -0700, "PiledHigher" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Bleve wrote:
>> PiledHigher wrote:
>> > The Real Andy wrote:
>> > > More to the point, whats the drill here with off topic conversations?
>> > > IS it generally accepted or not?
>> >
>> > This is not OT, we have to share the road with these apologists for
>> > incosiderate, inattentive, inexperienced drivers.
>> >
>> > Fault should be first assunmed towards the driver in every accident,
>> > until evidence proves otherwise.
>> >
>> > Do you want somebody's mum saying don't blame him when you are dead?

>>
>> If he's dead, it doesn't matter.
>>
>> The question revolves around the usual conflict between justice
>> (revenge, with a pretty name), deterrance and prevention of individual
>> re-offence.
>>
>> You (piledlower) are seeking revenge, it seems. Not deterrance (which
>> isn't effective against kids much anyway, they're invincible, remember
>> when you were?)

>
>I'm not seeking revenge, I'm suggesting that just because mummy & daddy
>say so you are resolved of being responsible, particularly when you
>take on an adult task like driving.


So whats your solution to this 'all too common' problem?

>
>I'm saying, from initial reports the kid looks responsible but we can't
>say so because it might hurt his self estimee.


I think you will find they are all having a wee trouble thinking
rationally at the moment.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
<snip>
> I'm not seeking revenge, I'm suggesting that just because mummy & daddy
> say so you are resolved of being responsible, particularly when you
> take on an adult task like driving.
>
> I'm saying, from initial reports the kid looks responsible but we can't
> say so because it might hurt his self estimee.


Actually it's probably got more to do with to a
constitutional right to be deemed innocent until proven
guilty.
 
P

Plodder

Guest
--
Frank
[email protected]
Drop DACKS to reply
"Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> PiledHigher wrote:
> >
> > What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
> > out...
> > I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.
> >
> > In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
> > lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
> > sorry not for you...

> <snip>
>
> That may not necessarily be true. The car may have had a
> mechanical. Anything could've happened. Maybe it was his
> mother's car and she'd gotten it serviced at a dodgy
> mechanic and there was some fault not picked up... maybe it
> was random. Maybe someone tampered with the car. Maybe one
> of the other kids in the car leaned across and covered his
> eyes or something as a joke that turned very wrong. Or maybe
> it was his fault, maybe he was drinking, or maybe he lost
> concentration. But there's no info so we can't say.
>
> A very good friend of mine nearly got killed when got a
> sudden flat/blowout but the tyre actually wrapped itself up
> and around the axle or something and that wheel just
> stopped, the bum end of the car swung around so she came to
> a dead halt on the Bruce Highway (110km/h zone) facing the
> oncoming traffic. This was only a few weeks of very limited
> driving after a service. The mechanics who fixed her car
> later said they couldn't see what had done it, it was
> random. The outcome could've been very different.
>
> I do agree with you that "the car lost control" is bullsh!t
> - whatever the reason for it the accident, the driver lost
> control.
>
> T


Yep - it's easy to jump straight to apportioning blame. I think we'd be
better served thining about 'fault' instead of 'blame'. Often there is a
fault which causes events and that fault can be something like a mechanical
failure, road condition, etc. Fault can also be a lack of training or skill
to deal with other events such as a blowout, fatigue, passenger horseplay,
etc. 'Blame' has a spin of a deliberate, irresponsible or unthought action
by a person. 'Fault' looks at what happened and why.

my 2c...

me