Don't Blame the Driver?



B

BT Humble

Guest
Tamyka Bell wrote:
> PiledHigher wrote:
> <snip>
> > I'm not seeking revenge, I'm suggesting that just because mummy & daddy
> > say so you are resolved of being responsible, particularly when you
> > take on an adult task like driving.
> >
> > I'm saying, from initial reports the kid looks responsible but we can't
> > say so because it might hurt his self estimee.

>
> Actually it's probably got more to do with to a
> constitutional right to be deemed innocent until proven
> guilty.


Unless ASIO wants to "interview" you.


BTH
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Agreed. But whose fault is it?
>
> How
> about if a kid drops a rock off an overpass onto your car -
> is that your fault?


Happened to my son (in my car) when he was 18. Some **** dropped a rock off
a ped bridge which broke the windscreen. fortunately he didn't lose control.

Theo
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
scotty72 wrote:

> It is simply not good enough for a ditsy teen to jump in a car and
> think, petrol goes here, key goes here - end of story.


That modus operandi works for most adults, even me. I don't check the tyre
pressures and depth of tread before I leave my driveway. Do you know anyone
who does?

Theo
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
> scotty72 wrote:
>
> > It is simply not good enough for a ditsy teen to jump in a car and
> > think, petrol goes here, key goes here - end of story.

>
> That modus operandi works for most adults, even me. I don't check the tyre
> pressures and depth of tread before I leave my driveway. Do you know anyone
> who does?


*confession* Tyres no more than once a fortnight, similarly
for oil check. But then I only scoot one day per week and
only fill up the tank every third week or so...

Tam
 

Shabby

New Member
Mar 13, 2003
617
2
0
Don't blame the driver, it was the trees that made the car stop so suddenly....

Speed doesn't kill, its the rapid deceleration that does the damage.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Shabby wrote:
>
> Don't blame the driver, it was the trees that made the car stop so
> suddenly....
>
> Speed doesn't kill, its the rapid deceleration that does the damage.


Excellent point. We should cull those pesky trees.

Tam
 
S

Sir Lex

Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
> What the? Surely this not the road safety message we should be getting
> out...
> I'm glad that victoria continues with 18 as driving age.
>
> In the text the car lost control.... Once again what the?, the driver
> lost control. His parents want him to recover with a clear concience,
> sorry not for you...
>
>
>
> Don't blame driver, say parents
> http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20626721-662,00.html
> <snip>
>



I reckon what they're trying to say is for the media and the public not
to rip into him for what he's done. He's got to live with the fact that
he killed 3 of his good mates. He will never forget it, and will need
all the support he can get because of his mistake. Other papers have
been reporting that the only thing the kid says when he's awake is "oh
my god I killed them, oh my god I killed them."

The media and the public getting stuck into him is only going to make
things worse, and without the right support, the kid may well commit
suicide.

Other news sources cite that witnesses say the boy wasn't speeding, and
police do not think that drugs or alcohol were a factor either. The
road was wet and lined with trees (if the high speed road was lined with
trees, why was it not also lined with armco to prevent people hitting
the trees?). The kid was driving a rear wheel drive car, and as
learning skid control is frowned upon by authorities in this country for
some ungodly reason, the kid will have had no idea what to do if he lost
the back end of his car on a wet road.

The kid had only had his licence four days when he had the accident,
again raising calls for newly licensed drivers to have a curfew and/or a
passenger limit. I agree with the passenger limit, peer pressure is the
most dangerous thing to find in a car full of teenagers.

As for the legal driving age, many countries around the world let kids
as young as 14 obtain a restricted motorcycle/moped licence. They are
then allowed to start driving cars at 16. Compulsory driver training
can cost as much as AU$2000, which includes on track training, skid
control, classroom training, etc, by professionals. Why are we so
backward in this country? No Australian politician has the balls to say
that a system like that is really needed in Australia. Instead the
responsibility is passed onto children's parents who also don't know how
to drive. How many encounters have the readers of this newsgroup had
with older, adult drivers? Chances are, each of those drivers will
teach a child to drive in their lifetime. Chances are, each of those
children will have heard their parents say "bloody cyclists, bloody taxi
drivers, *********** I'm 5 minutes late" whilst tailgating, performing
erratic lane changes, failing to keep left unless overtaking, driving at
70 odd in 50 zones, and generally driving like a moron. Then everyone
has a go at new drivers who start doing the same thing?

Until each state and territory gets a politician who has the guts to
take on a far too conservative driver education system, then things like
this will keep happening. The useless kiddy bashing will continue every
time there is a multiple fatality involving young drivers, and we will
get nowhere.


--

SL.


Take back the web. www.Getfirefox.com

http://www.firefoxflicks.com/flick/?id=20272

Take back your Inbox. www.Getthunderbird.com
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Sir Lex wrote:
<snips the other very valid points>

> The kid had only had his licence four days when he had the accident,
> again raising calls for newly licensed drivers to have a curfew and/or a
> passenger limit. I agree with the passenger limit, peer pressure is the
> most dangerous thing to find in a car full of teenagers.


There are passenger (pillion) restrictions on a motorcycle,
so I can't see why cars should be any different, except that
I hate the thought of people being forced to drive as sole
occupants of a vehicle!

Never understood the peer pressure thing, though. Perhaps
it's because I didn't start driving until I was older. If
passengers egged me on to drive in a dangerous manner, I
simply pulled over and asked them to get out, or kindly shut
the fsck up.
<snip>
> Instead the
> responsibility is passed onto children's parents who also don't know how
> to drive. How many encounters have the readers of this newsgroup had
> with older, adult drivers? Chances are, each of those drivers will
> teach a child to drive in their lifetime. Chances are, each of those
> children will have heard their parents say "bloody cyclists, bloody taxi
> drivers, *********** I'm 5 minutes late" whilst tailgating, performing
> erratic lane changes, failing to keep left unless overtaking, driving at
> 70 odd in 50 zones, and generally driving like a moron. Then everyone
> has a go at new drivers who start doing the same thing?

<snip>

My Dad had the good sence to acknowledge that he breaks a
fair few road rules. He drove me to the local "technology
park" on a weekend for some familiarisation... this is how
the car works, have a go at what it feels like to drive...
then he sent me off to a driving school to be taught
properly. Then they wouldn't let me go on any long drives
until I'd done a defensive driving course, which they gave
me as a birthday present. (At that course, I decided I'd
been lucky to have such a good driving instructor, because
so many on the course were clueless, even to my untrained
eye.)

Tam
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Excellent point. We should cull those pesky trees.


They cut down the tree that Peter Brock attempted to kill.

Theo
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
Tamyka Bell said:
Excellent point. We should cull those pesky trees.

Don't laugh, but this has previously been suggested, as has the removal or repositioning of bus shelters & street furniture. Personally I think the authorities should stop farting around and simply line the streets with armco or guardrail.
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Sir Lex wrote:

> As for the legal driving age, many countries around the world let kids
> as young as 14 obtain a restricted motorcycle/moped licence. They are
> then allowed to start driving cars at 16.


Some countries allows six year old children ride bicycles with no formal
training. Allow teenagers to ride their unlicenced bicycles on the roads.
Where are the safety checks, the training, compulsory vehicle checks?

Think of the children!

Theo
Sarcasm, if you hadn't noticed.
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Then, this is a clear case of fault.

Someone (unless there is one in a million freak occasion) - like a metor drops on your bonnet) is always responsible.

Theo Bekkers said:
Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Agreed. But whose fault is it?
>
> How
> about if a kid drops a rock off an overpass onto your car -
> is that your fault?


Happened to my son (in my car) when he was 18. Some **** dropped a rock off
a ped bridge which broke the windscreen. fortunately he didn't lose control.

Theo
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
cfsmtb wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Excellent point. We should cull those pesky trees.

>
> Don't laugh, but this has previously been suggested, as has the removal
> or repositioning of bus shelters & street furniture. Personally I think
> the authorities should stop farting around and simply line the streets
> with armco or guardrail.
>
> --
> cfsmtb


Streets are obviously dangerous full stop, so are footpaths.
Cull them all.

Tam
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Then stop driving.

If your not at least visually inpecting your tyres at least once every few days - you're a menace - get off the road.

How hard is it to walk a lap of your car? Are you that much of a lazy slob?

Theo Bekkers said:
scotty72 wrote:

> It is simply not good enough for a ditsy teen to jump in a car and
> think, petrol goes here, key goes here - end of story.


That modus operandi works for most adults, even me. I don't check the tyre
pressures and depth of tread before I leave my driveway. Do you know anyone
who does?

Theo
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
scotty72 wrote:
>
> Then stop driving.
>
> If your not at least visually inpecting your tyres at least once every
> few days - you're a menace - get off the road.
>
> How hard is it to walk a lap of your car? Are you that much of a lazy
> slob?


Shall I go walk a lap of my scooter every few days? I'd
spend more time walking around it than driving it.

T
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Sir Lex said:
I reckon what they're trying to say is for the media and the public not
to rip into him for what he's done.
Why not? He killed 3 young people! Shouldn't he be made to feel bloody awful? Better than what happened to his mates.

Other papers have
been reporting that the only thing the kid says when he's awake is "oh
my god I killed them, oh my god I killed them."
This is most likely media management. I have worked in and with the media on and off; any media 101 student can tell you that there will be a well co-ordinated strategy going on here.

The media and the public getting stuck into him is only going to make
things worse, and without the right support, the kid may well commit
suicide.
And if he is made to feel blameless then he may well kill others again.


Other news sources cite that witnesses say the boy wasn't speeding, and
police do not think that drugs or alcohol were a factor either.
The 'witnesses' were a car load of his mates following them home. What might you tell the cops if they asked you if your mate was driving like an idiot, killing people? Do you reckon you'd tell them your mate drove so stupidly that he killed 4 people?

Now imagine that pressure to protect your mate as a teenager.


The road was wet and lined with trees (if the high speed road was lined with
trees, why was it not also lined with armco to prevent people hitting
the trees?).
That's right - don't ask people to be responsible for what they do - the road did it; the trees are a fault. Are you this guys parent. HE DID IT - not the tree!


The kid was driving a rear wheel drive car, and as
learning skid control is frowned upon by authorities in this country for
some ungodly reason, the kid will have had no idea what to do if he lost
the back end of his car on a wet road.
Yes, getting a licence is far too easy. It should be long, difficult and expensive - then they might respect it.

The kid had only had his licence four days when he had the accident,
again raising calls for newly licensed drivers to have a curfew and/or a
passenger limit. I agree with the passenger limit, peer pressure is the
most dangerous thing to find in a car full of teenagers.
You're right again.

This highlights the point about the so-called witnesses.
As for the legal driving age, many countries around the world let kids
as young as 14 obtain a restricted motorcycle/moped licence. They are
then allowed to start driving cars at 16. Compulsory driver training
can cost as much as AU$2000, which includes on track training, skid
control, classroom training, etc, by professionals. Why are we so
backward in this country? No Australian politician has the balls to say
that a system like that is really needed in Australia. Instead the
responsibility is passed onto children's parents who also don't know how
to drive. How many encounters have the readers of this newsgroup had
with older, adult drivers? Chances are, each of those drivers will
teach a child to drive in their lifetime. Chances are, each of those
children will have heard their parents say "bloody cyclists, bloody taxi
drivers, *********** I'm 5 minutes late" whilst tailgating, performing
erratic lane changes, failing to keep left unless overtaking, driving at
70 odd in 50 zones, and generally driving like a moron. Then everyone
has a go at new drivers who start doing the same thing?
Yes, you're on a roll!

Until each state and territory gets a politician who has the guts to
take on a far too conservative driver education system, then things like
this will keep happening. The useless kiddy bashing will continue every
time there is a multiple fatality involving young drivers, and we will
get nowhere.
And, you were doing so well.

It's not the kid's fault - it was the pollies' fault.

All those things must happen but, MOST IMPORTANT is that kids are made wholly and soley responsible for any wrong that they do. Only then will people start to change their attitudes.

Until then, the whole 'It wasn't my fault' culture (and the carnage) will continue.

SCotty
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
scotty72 wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:


>> That modus operandi works for most adults, even me. I don't check the
>> tyre
>> pressures and depth of tread before I leave my driveway. Do you know
>> anyone
>> who does?


> Then stop driving.
>
> If your not at least visually inpecting your tyres at least once every
> few days - you're a menace - get off the road.
>
> How hard is it to walk a lap of your car? Are you that much of a lazy
> slob?


Good Lord. Do you ping all your spokes before you ride down to the shops?

Theo
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
scotty72 wrote:
>
> Sir Lex Wrote:
> >
> > I reckon what they're trying to say is for the media and the public
> > not
> > to rip into him for what he's done.
> > Why not? He killed 3 young people! Shouldn't he be made to feel bloody

> awful? Better than what happened to his mates.
>
> > Other papers have
> > been reporting that the only thing the kid says when he's awake is
> > "oh
> > my god I killed them, oh my god I killed them."


> This is most likely media management. I have worked in and with the
> media on and off; any media 101 student can tell you that there will be
> a well co-ordinated strategy going on here.

<snip?

Awesome. I hope the media feels great when they drive a
young remorseful teenager to suicide. They have been
reported to have driven others to death as well.

Sir Lex made a very good point about that - if he feels bad,
all the media coverage in the world ain't going to achieve
anything because he already feels bad.

If he doesn't feel bad, it's just going to **** him off, and
increase his sense of how it's not his fault and the world
is out to get him, so yay, he'll be an angry young driver.

Tam
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.

Theo Bekkers said:
scotty72 wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:


>> That modus operandi works for most adults, even me. I don't check the
>> tyre
>> pressures and depth of tread before I leave my driveway. Do you know
>> anyone
>> who does?


> Then stop driving.
>
> If your not at least visually inpecting your tyres at least once every
> few days - you're a menace - get off the road.
>
> How hard is it to walk a lap of your car? Are you that much of a lazy
> slob?


Good Lord. Do you ping all your spokes before you ride down to the shops?

Theo
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
At least the next young (or old) driver might think twice if he sees a young life ruined by his own actions.

Tamyka Bell said:
scotty72 wrote:
>
> Sir Lex Wrote:
> >
> > I reckon what they're trying to say is for the media and the public
> > not
> > to rip into him for what he's done.
> > Why not? He killed 3 young people! Shouldn't he be made to feel bloody

> awful? Better than what happened to his mates.
>
> > Other papers have
> > been reporting that the only thing the kid says when he's awake is
> > "oh
> > my god I killed them, oh my god I killed them."


> This is most likely media management. I have worked in and with the
> media on and off; any media 101 student can tell you that there will be
> a well co-ordinated strategy going on here.

<snip?

Awesome. I hope the media feels great when they drive a
young remorseful teenager to suicide. They have been
reported to have driven others to death as well.

Sir Lex made a very good point about that - if he feels bad,
all the media coverage in the world ain't going to achieve
anything because he already feels bad.

If he doesn't feel bad, it's just going to **** him off, and
increase his sense of how it's not his fault and the world
is out to get him, so yay, he'll be an angry young driver.

Tam