Don't Blame the Driver?



T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Terryc wrote:

> The real problem is that we do not know how many die by other ways
> for a real comparison.
>
> e.g. (unfortunately not Oz) the USA AMA recently published that their
> figures show that 106,000 die per annum in USA hospitals from drug
> allergies. If Australia is same proportion, then ~7066 die here each
> year, which is how many times our road toll?


The toll in medical "oopsies" in Oz is approx ten times the road toll. More
than 15,000 people ddie in hospitals from 'mistakes' made by their medical
carers.

250 people die per day in Victoria from all reasons, one from a road death.
Yes, road deaths are regrettable, but let's get some perspective.

Theo
 
F

Friday

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> LotteBum wrote:
>
>
>>Bring on $2/litre petrol - that'll get rid of at least SOME cars (and
>>yes, I know it'll push up the price of everything else, but so be it -
>>I can afford it and don't care), and make driving less viable for
>>young kids.

>
>
> Whilst I agree with most of what you said, fuel will still be the smallest
> cost of owning a motor vehicle. A $25,000 vehicle will cost you $120 a week
> to pay off, rego and insurance will cost you at least another $40 a week. If
> you do 12,000 kms a year, even at $2 a litre, the fuel will cost you $48 a
> week, 23% of the total cost of ownership.
>
> Theo
>
>


Yes Theo, but people don't complain about those costs like they do about
fuel prices. Spend a fortune on a nice car, not a problem, rego and
insurance, not a problem. Put fuel up four cents a litre, it's the end
of the world as we know it!

Friday
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Theo Bekkers said:
scotty72 wrote:
> No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.


Scenario:- spoke breaks, extra load on the other 35 poorly maintained spokes
cause 5 more to snap, wheel collapses, rider falls into path of fuel tanker.
Tanker driver takes violent evasive action, runs over four cars, the seven
occupants all die. Tanker continues out of control and careers into a
school. Tanker explodes in a huge fireball. 300 children dead, 450 more
seriously burnt.

Why the hell didn't you check your goddam spokes this morning, ya lazy slob.
How can you live with yourself?

Do you get the point yet? No? I didn't think you would.

Have a nice life Scotty.

Theo
Come on Theo, this could have been far more imaginative, creative and outrageous!

You forgot to mention the fact that my spoke would have been shot out by the lone gunman on the grassy knoll.

Also, the fuel tanker explosion may trigger a nearby inactive volcano. The blast (apart from wiping out most of inner western Sydney) would no doubt send rocks hurtling kilametres into space. These rocks would knock out vital communications and military satelites. As a result, planes would start flying blind.

Unfortunately, one of these planes would be a Chinese army transporter known to carry nuclear material. As this plane starts to drift off into Taiwanese airspace. The USS KittyHawk is set to high alert and scrambles its fighter jets.

An all out nuclear war erupts.

The last thing I consider before armageddon is the spoke.

I take one last look at it - the cursed spoke that ended the world and scream "DAMN YOU SPOKE!" over the noise of the incoming intercontinental ballistic missle.............


And you really want me to get your grossly hypothetical point?

Gimme a break.
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
scotty72 said:
Come on Theo, this could have been far more imaginative, creative and outrageous!

You forgot to mention the fact that my spoke would have been shot out by the lone gunman on the grassy knoll.

You forgot to mention - the bicycle tyres were full of VX gas.
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-10-24, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> scotty72 wrote:
>> No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.

>
> Scenario:- spoke breaks, extra load on the other 35 poorly maintained spokes
> cause 5 more to snap, wheel collapses, rider falls into path of fuel tanker.
> Tanker driver takes violent evasive action, runs over four cars, the seven
> occupants all die. Tanker continues out of control and careers into a
> school. Tanker explodes in a huge fireball. 300 children dead, 450 more
> seriously burnt.
>
> Why the hell didn't you check your goddam spokes this morning, ya lazy slob.
> How can you live with yourself?
>
> Do you get the point yet? No? I didn't think you would.
>
> Have a nice life Scotty.


Theo, you seem to have a fundamental problem understanding likelyhoods
of scenarios, and making reasonable risk assessments.


I can be fairly confident in saying that the numbers are so far
unlikely that nothing like your scenario has ever happened.

And yet cars driven with undetected balding tires have killed other
road users. Those 4 cyclists killed in the UK earlier this year were
killed by a car with balding tires being driven on ice, weren't they?

--
TimC
Computer screens simply ooze buckets of yang.
To balance this, place some women around the corners of the room.
-- Kaz Cooke, Dumb Feng Shui
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-10-25, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Terryc wrote:
>
>> The real problem is that we do not know how many die by other ways
>> for a real comparison.
>>
>> e.g. (unfortunately not Oz) the USA AMA recently published that their
>> figures show that 106,000 die per annum in USA hospitals from drug
>> allergies. If Australia is same proportion, then ~7066 die here each
>> year, which is how many times our road toll?

>
> The toll in medical "oopsies" in Oz is approx ten times the road toll. More
> than 15,000 people ddie in hospitals from 'mistakes' made by their medical
> carers.
>
> 250 people die per day in Victoria from all reasons, one from a road death.
> Yes, road deaths are regrettable, but let's get some perspective.


And we all know that it is the terrists that are the biggest killers
in today's society. I bet you the terrists have infiltrated our
medical system, and are bringing it down from the inside.

Oh geez, I just remember my doctor here is going to be either Dr Gupta
or Dr Fawez or Dr um... can't remember his name. They've already
infiltrated country clinics.

--
TimC
An optimist thinks we are living in the best of all possible worlds. A
pessimist fears this is true. --unknown
 
T

Terryc

Guest
TimC wrote:

> Oh geez, I just remember my doctor here is going to be either Dr Gupta
> or Dr Fawez or Dr um... can't remember his name.


If they are overseas trained, and a lot of peeps go OS for holidays
(e.g. WA to Bali), then they can be a real advantage with all the exotic
diseases that travellers can bring back.

What you need to be really afraid of is doctors with all the drug
company trinkets over their consulting rooms.
 
T

Terryc

Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> On the other hand, you could consider motorcyclists who lose traction
> on oil or deisel or who are run off the road.


Leather!
That guy deisel has **** music.
>
> Street furniture is lethal to them. And possibly to, say, cyclists
> doing fast descents.


Hmm, can not help thinking that all these are self inflicted events;
driving/riding in a manner unsafe for the road conditions.

We have a surplus of **** sapiens on planet Earth. It is ecologically
and societally responsible to improve the chances of the stupid in
culling themselves.
 
T

Terryc

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> scotty72 wrote:
>
>>No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.

>
>
> Scenario:- spoke breaks, extra load on the other 35 poorly maintained spokes
> cause 5 more to snap, wheel collapses,


oooh, I've done that, but I was doing jumps at the time in the forest on
a yumcha special.

> rider falls into path of fuel tanker.
> Tanker driver takes violent evasive action,


oooh, badly trained driver.
We often have this "discussion on country roads "For fsck sake, hit the
kangaroo, it is softer than the trees".

> runs over four cars, the seven
> occupants all die. Tanker continues out of control and careers into a
> school. Tanker explodes in a huge fireball. 300 children dead, 450 more
> seriously burnt.


cool, now they can resite the school off the main road.
actually, I think you will find that tankers can not explode in a huge
fireball. For a really huge fireball to happen, the fully loaded tanker
would need to drop its load of petrol, into a shallow enclosure of sorts
where plenty of air can rush in.

Most other fuels would not explode, but you can always count on a small
boy to have matches and to do his darndest.
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:49:59 +1000
Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, you could consider motorcyclists who lose traction
>> on oil or deisel or who are run off the road.

>
> Leather!
> That guy deisel has **** music.
>>
>> Street furniture is lethal to them. And possibly to, say, cyclists
>> doing fast descents.

>
> Hmm, can not help thinking that all these are self inflicted events;
> driving/riding in a manner unsafe for the road conditions.
>


So anyone who falls off on tramtracks should go under the tram?

Anyone who hits a pothole in a group ride should be shot?


Zebee
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Friday wrote:

> Yes Theo, but people don't complain about those costs like they do
> about fuel prices. Spend a fortune on a nice car, not a problem, rego
> and insurance, not a problem. Put fuel up four cents a litre, it's
> the end of the world as we know it!


Yup, but in the end $2 a litre will not shy/pry people away from their cars.

Theo
Whose first car took $4 to fill up with 40 litres.
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
TimC wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote
>> scotty72 wrote:


>>> No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.


>> Why the hell didn't you check your goddam spokes this morning, ya
>> lazy slob. How can you live with yourself?


> Theo, you seem to have a fundamental problem understanding likelyhoods
> of scenarios, and making reasonable risk assessments.


Unlike the scenario that not checking my tyre tread depth every day will
kill 4 people. :)

Theo
 

scotty72

New Member
Jul 10, 2005
815
0
0
Theo Bekkers said:
TimC wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote
>> scotty72 wrote:


>>> No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.


>> Why the hell didn't you check your goddam spokes this morning, ya
>> lazy slob. How can you live with yourself?


> Theo, you seem to have a fundamental problem understanding likelyhoods
> of scenarios, and making reasonable risk assessments.


Unlike the scenario that not checking my tyre tread depth every day will
kill 4 people. :)

Theo
The risk is far greater.

If my tyre fails - I fall off and hurt myself. Perhaps the rider behind. We see this a lot. Most people can get up off the ground - swear at the world then get back on

same can't be said for a car tyre that fails at 110 km/h

Scotty
 
F

Friday

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> Friday wrote:
>
>
>>Yes Theo, but people don't complain about those costs like they do
>>about fuel prices. Spend a fortune on a nice car, not a problem, rego
>>and insurance, not a problem. Put fuel up four cents a litre, it's
>>the end of the world as we know it!

>
>
> Yup, but in the end $2 a litre will not shy/pry people away from their cars.


Yes, sadly, you're right (again.)

Friday

>
> Theo
> Whose first car took $4 to fill up with 40 litres.
>
>
 
T

Terryc

Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> So anyone who falls off on tramtracks should go under the tram?


umm, err, year, this is after all Melbournians we are taklking about {:)
>
> Anyone who hits a pothole in a group ride should be shot?


Only if they are roadies {:)
It would certainly make for some interesting group rides
"The Sporting Shooters Bicycle Brigade"


lol, do you always resort to gross misexaggeration when you don't have a
counter arguments.

Remember, if you make a system foolproof, only fools will use it.
 
T

Terryc

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:

> Theo
> Whose first car took $4 to fill up with 40 litres.


did it also do 80mpg?

Recently read one of those reminiscences blogs about how cars used to do
80mpg. It later lead onto talking about the Dablo(?) steam car. Now that
is a car.


>
>
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Terryc wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
>> Theo
>> Whose first car took $4 to fill up with 40 litres.

>
> did it also do 80mpg?
>
> Recently read one of those reminiscences blogs about how cars used to
> do 80mpg. It later lead onto talking about the Dablo(?) steam car.
> Now that is a car.


It was 1949 Morris 8 which had a 920 cc sidevalve engine producing a
whopping 27.5 hp. It did do 45 mpg. And no, it wasn't new when I bought it.
:)

Theo
 
D

dave

Guest
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> scotty72 wrote:
>> No, but a busted spoke wont kill 4 people.

>
> Scenario:- spoke breaks, extra load on the other 35 poorly maintained spokes
> cause 5 more to snap, wheel collapses, rider falls into path of fuel tanker.
> Tanker driver takes violent evasive action, runs over four cars, the seven
> occupants all die. Tanker continues out of control and careers into a
> school. Tanker explodes in a huge fireball. 300 children dead, 450 more
> seriously burnt.
>
> Why the hell didn't you check your goddam spokes this morning, ya lazy slob.
> How can you live with yourself?
>
> Do you get the point yet? No? I didn't think you would.
>
> Have a nice life Scotty.
>
> Theo
>
>


Yup happens all the time. THe statistics are however hidden by the
vastly higher toll of those killed by being squished by carelessly
parked flying saucers :)

Dave
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
We arrived here from the sky, on that cream pie parked outside

A wonderfully boppy little ditty & a personal fave from the 80's ;))
 
P

PHATRS

Guest
Stuart Lamble wrote:
> On 2006-10-25, Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Whilst I agree with most of what you said, fuel will still be the smallest
>> cost of owning a motor vehicle. A $25,000 vehicle will cost you $120 a week
>> to pay off, rego and insurance will cost you at least another $40 a week. If
>> you do 12,000 kms a year, even at $2 a litre, the fuel will cost you $48 a
>> week, 23% of the total cost of ownership.

>
> Or look at it from my perspective. I've paid off my vehicle; I own it
> outright. (Wish I could say the same about my home, but anyway. :)
>
> Rego and insurance come to around $1,000 per annum, or $20 a week
> (roughly). (Rating one driver - what can I say?) If I do 10,000 km a
> year (which seems not unreasonable at my current rates), that's around
> 200 km a week. 20 litres of fuel a week - roughly - comes to $40/week.
>
> Servicing? Let's be generous: $1,000 per annum. (probably less than
> that).
>
> Suddenly, the cost of fuel has jumped to 50% of the cost of owning a
> vehicle ...
>


Don't forget to factor in depreciation.

--
Ben
Car related lyric of the week: "Can't you see me, overtakin? All the
while I'm salivating. Won't you let me push a little thrust up you?"