Don't Blame the Driver?



S

Stuart Lamble

Guest
On 2006-10-26, PHATRS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stuart Lamble wrote:
>> Or look at it from my perspective. I've paid off my vehicle; I own it
>> outright. (Wish I could say the same about my home, but anyway. :)
>>
>> Rego and insurance come to around $1,000 per annum, or $20 a week
>> (roughly). (Rating one driver - what can I say?) If I do 10,000 km a
>> year (which seems not unreasonable at my current rates), that's around
>> 200 km a week. 20 litres of fuel a week - roughly - comes to $40/week.
>>
>> Servicing? Let's be generous: $1,000 per annum. (probably less than
>> that).
>>
>> Suddenly, the cost of fuel has jumped to 50% of the cost of owning a
>> vehicle ...
>>

>
> Don't forget to factor in depreciation.


That's a cost I consider as being part of the purchase price. I didn't
buy my car to trade in for a new one - I bought it to drive for ten
years, by which time I knew it'd be close to worthless.

~Six years down, four to go before its time is up with me (possibly
more.)

It's probably worth about $5-6000 as a trade-in now ('97 Holden Vectra).
Given the price of a replacement vehicle, it's worth more than that to
me - I can't afford to buy a new car (or even a decent second-hand one).

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P

PiledHigher

Guest
Stuart Lamble wrote:
> On 2006-10-26, PHATRS <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Don't forget to factor in depreciation.

>
> That's a cost I consider as being part of the purchase price. I didn't
> buy my car to trade in for a new one - I bought it to drive for ten
> years, by which time I knew it'd be close to worthless.
>
> ~Six years down, four to go before its time is up with me (possibly
> more.)
>
> It's probably worth about $5-6000 as a trade-in now ('97 Holden Vectra).
> Given the price of a replacement vehicle, it's worth more than that to
> me - I can't afford to buy a new car (or even a decent second-hand one).
>
> --
> My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
> the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".


Even if you ignore depreciation it is still part of the cost of
ownership.

You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.

That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
$26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
> when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
>
> That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
> $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.


Which bank? :)

Obviously not the national. It would be worth 5c a year if it was
with them.

I have just closed my account with them. I was going to wait until
the account had a large balance in it before taking it out, such that
when they asked me why I was closing it, I would loudly proclaim that
it was because of their fees and lack of interest payments. But I
couldn't be bothered paying another $6 per month, so I closed it when
it was empty. Didn't quite have the same effect.


--
TimC
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
 
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Theo Bekkers

Guest
Stuart Lamble wrote:

> That's a cost I consider as being part of the purchase price. I didn't
> buy my car to trade in for a new one - I bought it to drive for ten
> years, by which time I knew it'd be close to worthless.
>
> ~Six years down, four to go before its time is up with me (possibly
> more.)
>
> It's probably worth about $5-6000 as a trade-in now ('97 Holden
> Vectra). Given the price of a replacement vehicle, it's worth more
> than that to me -


So you don't count the purchase price as cost of ownership? Are you an
accountant perhaps? :)
A $10,000 car worth nothing in ten years sounds like $20 a week to me.

Theo
 
S

Stuart Lamble

Guest
On 2006-10-26, Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stuart Lamble wrote:
>
>> That's a cost I consider as being part of the purchase price. I didn't
>> buy my car to trade in for a new one - I bought it to drive for ten
>> years, by which time I knew it'd be close to worthless.
>>
>> ~Six years down, four to go before its time is up with me (possibly
>> more.)
>>
>> It's probably worth about $5-6000 as a trade-in now ('97 Holden
>> Vectra). Given the price of a replacement vehicle, it's worth more
>> than that to me -

>
> So you don't count the purchase price as cost of ownership? Are you an
> accountant perhaps? :)
> A $10,000 car worth nothing in ten years sounds like $20 a week to me.


Let's see if I can clarify my position here. Most people already own a
car - either they own it outright, or they have a loan they're paying
off. For the former group, the cost of the car is a sunk cost. The only
way they'll recover *any* of that money is by selling the car and not
replacing it. That's not going to happen.

The cost those people see, that hits their hip pocket *here and now*, is
the running cost: fuel, maintenance, and repairs. Yes, depreciation is a
cost. So what? It's not money out of the hip pocket - it's a drop in
value of something that was paid for previously.

In other words, the vast majority of people, when considering the cost
of owning a car, consider only the day-to-day costs, and that's where
the fuel cost bites: it's immediate, it's visible, it hits every week.
Rego, insurance, and maintenance also hit, but they're not as regular,
so they aren't as obvious until you sit down and work it out.

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S

Stuart Lamble

Guest
On 2006-10-26, TimC <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
>> when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
>>
>> That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
>> $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.

>
> Which bank? :)


http://www.ingdirect.com.au/

5.85% per annum, on a base of $15,000, for ten years, equals

15000*(1.0585^10) = $26485 (roughly).

Allow for 30% tax per annum on the earnings:

15000*(1+(.0585*.7))^10 = $22407.

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T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-10-26, Stuart Lamble (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On 2006-10-26, TimC <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>> You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
>>> when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
>>>
>>> That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
>>> $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.

>>
>> Which bank? :)

>
> http://www.ingdirect.com.au/
>
> 5.85% per annum, on a base of $15,000, for ten years, equals
>
> 15000*(1.0585^10) = $26485 (roughly).
>
> Allow for 30% tax per annum on the earnings:
>
> 15000*(1+(.0585*.7))^10 = $22407.


Hmm, and with inflation at 3% (so that $22407 is worth only $16523 in
todays money), damn, I'm losing money putting it even in my credit
union.


This is hardly going to allow you to buy a bike after 10 years of
savings. (hah, how's that for a save to bring this back ontopic?)

--
TimC
[On being overcaffeinated...] Yes, this is possible - symptons include
the sun being too loud and grokking in full what Adams meant by
"unpleasantly like being drunk". -- Steed in ASR
 
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Terryc

Guest
Stuart Lamble wrote:

> Allow for 30% tax per annum on the earnings:


Did you tax each year or just at the end?
 
S

Stuart Lamble

Guest
On 2006-10-27, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stuart Lamble wrote:
>
>> Allow for 30% tax per annum on the earnings:

>
> Did you tax each year or just at the end?


Each year. It's a rough and ready calculation, but it does illustrate
how much taxation eats into earnings ...

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T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
TimC wrote:
>
> On 2006-10-24, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > scotty72 wrote:
> >>
> >> Then stop driving.
> >>
> >> If your not at least visually inpecting your tyres at least once every
> >> few days - you're a menace - get off the road.
> >>
> >> How hard is it to walk a lap of your car? Are you that much of a lazy
> >> slob?

> >
> > Shall I go walk a lap of my scooter every few days? I'd
> > spend more time walking around it than driving it.

>
> Big scooter, eh?
>
> --
> TimC


:p No, little one. But not my primary means of transport.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
TimC wrote:
>
> On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
> > when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
> >
> > That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
> > $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.

>
> Which bank? :)
>
> Obviously not the national. It would be worth 5c a year if it was
> with them.
>
> I have just closed my account with them. I was going to wait until
> the account had a large balance in it before taking it out, such that
> when they asked me why I was closing it, I would loudly proclaim that
> it was because of their fees and lack of interest payments. But I
> couldn't be bothered paying another $6 per month, so I closed it when
> it was empty. Didn't quite have the same effect.


I closed my National accounts a few years ago. I asked them
to recredit my account for a fee they shouldn't have charged
me in the first place (a previous operator's error). They
refused. I then asked to close all of my accounts. The staff
member looked somewhat shocked and asked if she should get
the manager. I suggested it may be in her best interest to
NOT do that, I took my money down the street and deposited
it with a different bank.

Tam
 
M

Moike

Guest
Tamyka Bell wrote:
> TimC wrote:
>> On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>> You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
>>> when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
>>>
>>> That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
>>> $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.

>> Which bank? :)
>>
>> Obviously not the national. It would be worth 5c a year if it was
>> with them.
>>
>> I have just closed my account with them. I was going to wait until
>> the account had a large balance in it before taking it out, such that
>> when they asked me why I was closing it, I would loudly proclaim that
>> it was because of their fees and lack of interest payments. But I
>> couldn't be bothered paying another $6 per month, so I closed it when
>> it was empty. Didn't quite have the same effect.

>
> I closed my National accounts a few years ago. I asked them
> to recredit my account for a fee they shouldn't have charged
> me in the first place (a previous operator's error). They
> refused. I then asked to close all of my accounts. The staff
> member looked somewhat shocked and asked if she should get
> the manager. I suggested it may be in her best interest to
> NOT do that,


Error #1 only the offending teller knows about your protest. Nothing
changes.

> I took my money down the street and deposited
> it with a different bank.



error #2: another *Bank*.
When whichbank tried to charge ridiculous fees for transferring money, I
closed my small savings account and used a Visa cash advance to pay out
the last few thousand on a home loan.

I didn't tell the manager that the Visa card was in fact a debit card on
my credit union, and that I had the funds to cover it.

Since then all my banking has gone through my credit union. Interest
rates on savings are higher, interest rates on borrowings are lower,
fees are lower.

I can't think of any reason why I would put money into a bank, except as
a shareholder.


Moike
 
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Tamyka Bell

Guest
Moike wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > TimC wrote:
> >> On 2006-10-26, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
> >> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >>> You probably paid $15,000 to buy it and assume that it is worth nothing
> >>> when it gets to the end of its life. So at least $1500 a year.
> >>>
> >>> That money in the bank after 10 years would be worth something like
> >>> $26,000 so potentially $2600 a year.
> >> Which bank? :)
> >>
> >> Obviously not the national. It would be worth 5c a year if it was
> >> with them.
> >>
> >> I have just closed my account with them. I was going to wait until
> >> the account had a large balance in it before taking it out, such that
> >> when they asked me why I was closing it, I would loudly proclaim that
> >> it was because of their fees and lack of interest payments. But I
> >> couldn't be bothered paying another $6 per month, so I closed it when
> >> it was empty. Didn't quite have the same effect.

> >
> > I closed my National accounts a few years ago. I asked them
> > to recredit my account for a fee they shouldn't have charged
> > me in the first place (a previous operator's error). They
> > refused. I then asked to close all of my accounts. The staff
> > member looked somewhat shocked and asked if she should get
> > the manager. I suggested it may be in her best interest to
> > NOT do that,

>
> Error #1 only the offending teller knows about your protest. Nothing
> changes.


That's true... but do you really think the bank manager
gives a sh!t about $2000? I'm a student, ffs!

> > I took my money down the street and deposited
> > it with a different bank.

>
> error #2: another *Bank*.
> When whichbank tried to charge ridiculous fees for transferring money, I
> closed my small savings account and used a Visa cash advance to pay out
> the last few thousand on a home loan.


Wow! I don't have a home loan. I have no loans.

> I didn't tell the manager that the Visa card was in fact a debit card on
> my credit union, and that I had the funds to cover it.


I don't have a Visa.

> Since then all my banking has gone through my credit union. Interest
> rates on savings are higher, interest rates on borrowings are lower,
> fees are lower.


I only borrow within the limit of my credit card and pay it
off each month.. I pay no interest...

> I can't think of any reason why I would put money into a bank, except as
> a shareholder.


I'm a student. No fees, no fees, no fees, except non-bank
atm. Also, my spouse works for one financial institution
so... no non-bank atm fees either. I can put my limited
funds into high-interest subaccounts or an ING direct
account, pay no fees, have access whenever I want, and earn
a higher interest rate than credit unions will give, given
how low my account balance is.

When you're a full-time student, you just have to ask. The
banks want you to graduate and then give them lots of fees,
once you're a professional.

T*poor*