drinking just before and while running

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by luc wastiaux, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. luc wastiaux

    luc wastiaux Guest

    I usually drink 3 liters of water a day, spread out throughout the day.
    But I stop drinking at least 30mn before going running, and don't drink
    during my run (which lasts 45-50mn). I have this belief that drinking
    just before running causes side stitch pain, what do you think, am I
    justified in thinking that ?

    --
    luc wastiaux
     
    Tags:


  2. luc wastiaux wrote:

    > I usually drink 3 liters of water a day, spread out throughout the day.
    > But I stop drinking at least 30mn before going running, and don't drink
    > during my run (which lasts 45-50mn). I have this belief that drinking
    > just before running causes side stitch pain, what do you think, am I
    > justified in thinking that ?
    >

    I my experience, side stitch pain is the result of running faster than
    you're conditioned for... the side stitch pain is from your diaphragm,
    I believe.

    I wear a Camelbak Flashflo when I run and it holds about 50 oz of fluid.
    I generally fill it most of the way and will consume most of it
    during my 60 minute runs... about 5 miles or so. I consume less fluid
    when the weather is cooler...
     
  3. Danglynnn

    Danglynnn Guest

    luc wastiaux <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I usually drink 3 liters of water a day, spread out throughout the day.
    > But I stop drinking at least 30mn before going running, and don't drink
    > during my run (which lasts 45-50mn). I have this belief that drinking
    > just before running causes side stitch pain, what do you think, am I
    > justified in thinking that ?


    Yes, and so can being too hydrated. So drinking too much the rest of
    the day can also cause them.
     
  4. luc wastiaux

    luc wastiaux Guest

    Danglynnn wrote:
    > luc wastiaux <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>I usually drink 3 liters of water a day, spread out throughout the day.
    >>But I stop drinking at least 30mn before going running, and don't drink
    >>during my run (which lasts 45-50mn). I have this belief that drinking
    >>just before running causes side stitch pain, what do you think, am I
    >>justified in thinking that ?

    >
    >
    > Yes, and so can being too hydrated. So drinking too much the rest of
    > the day can also cause them.


    I drink anywhere between 3L and 4L of water everyday, is this too much ?
    I drink all this water because I hate having a dry throat. Usually when
    I'm away for the whole day, I pack 2 1.5L bottles in my bag. The rest, I
    drink in the morning or in the evening.


    --
    luc wastiaux
     
  5. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    One dark day on Usenet, luc wastiaux <[email protected]> said
    news:[email protected]:

    > Danglynnn wrote:
    >> luc wastiaux <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >>>I usually drink 3 liters of water a day, spread out throughout the
    >>>day. But I stop drinking at least 30mn before going running, and
    >>>don't drink during my run (which lasts 45-50mn). I have this belief
    >>>that drinking just before running causes side stitch pain, what do
    >>>you think, am I justified in thinking that ?

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, and so can being too hydrated. So drinking too much the rest of
    >> the day can also cause them.

    >
    > I drink anywhere between 3L and 4L of water everyday, is this too much
    > ? I drink all this water because I hate having a dry throat. Usually
    > when I'm away for the whole day, I pack 2 1.5L bottles in my bag. The
    > rest, I drink in the morning or in the evening.


    If you aren't getting your water from other sources, such as fruits,
    juices, milk, etc., then 4 liters may not be too that much. If I have a
    longish run (10+ miles) that day, I'll drink about 3 liters of water up
    until the time of the run. Then I'll switch to Cytomax just before,
    during, and after the run.

    As for the side stitch, I haven't gotten a side stitch in years. When I
    first got them, I was new to running. I started doing ab exercises and
    the stitches never came back, even during hard interval training.

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu
     
  6. Dan Stumpus

    Dan Stumpus Guest

    "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > If you aren't getting your water from other sources, such as fruits,
    > juices, milk, etc., then 4 liters may not be too that much. If I have a
    > longish run (10+ miles) that day, I'll drink about 3 liters of water up
    > until the time of the run. Then I'll switch to Cytomax just before,
    > during, and after the run.


    Unless you're dehydrated to begin with, it is a bad idea to drink a lot of
    water prior to your long run. It can tilt the sodium balance towards
    hyponatrema, and lower your hematocrit. The best thing to do on long runs
    is to drink as you run. I usually drink every 15-20 minutes, from 8 to 10
    oz (1/4 - 1/3 liter). For longer runs (3+ hours) you need to take sodium to
    replace what you sweat. If it is very hot, take sodium (eg, Succeed! caps)
    on 1 1/2 to 2 hour runs.

    There's been a lot of discussion about water, sodium levels,
    milliequivelants, electrolyte replacement on the ultra list, by people with
    scientific chops. I think I've accurately summarized the gist here.

    > As for the side stitch, I haven't gotten a side stitch in years. When I
    > first got them, I was new to running. I started doing ab exercises and
    > the stitches never came back, even during hard interval training.


    Learn to belly breathe. If you fully expand and contract your diaphragm as
    you breathe, it won't cramp up.

    -- Dan
     
  7. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    One dark day on Usenet, "Dan Stumpus" <[email protected]>
    said news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    >> If you aren't getting your water from other sources, such as fruits,
    >> juices, milk, etc., then 4 liters may not be too that much. If I have
    >> a longish run (10+ miles) that day, I'll drink about 3 liters of
    >> water up until the time of the run. Then I'll switch to Cytomax just
    >> before, during, and after the run.

    >
    > Unless you're dehydrated to begin with, it is a bad idea to drink a
    > lot of water prior to your long run. It can tilt the sodium balance
    > towards hyponatrema, and lower your hematocrit. The best thing to do
    > on long runs is to drink as you run. I usually drink every 15-20
    > minutes, from 8 to 10 oz (1/4 - 1/3 liter). For longer runs (3+
    > hours) you need to take sodium to replace what you sweat. If it is
    > very hot, take sodium (eg, Succeed! caps) on 1 1/2 to 2 hour runs.


    I drink before, during and after. 3 liters during the day is not that much
    for me. That's what I'm used to. I don't think I'm in danger of
    hyponatremia if my body has adjusted to this soft of quantity.

    Phil M.
     
  8. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Phil M. wrote in message ...
    >One dark day on Usenet, "Dan Stumpus" <[email protected]>
    >said news:[email protected]:
    >
    >>
    >> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >>> If you aren't getting your water from other sources, such as fruits,
    >>> juices, milk, etc., then 4 liters may not be too that much. If I have
    >>> a longish run (10+ miles) that day, I'll drink about 3 liters of
    >>> water up until the time of the run. Then I'll switch to Cytomax just
    >>> before, during, and after the run.

    >>
    >> Unless you're dehydrated to begin with, it is a bad idea to drink a
    >> lot of water prior to your long run. It can tilt the sodium balance
    >> towards hyponatrema, and lower your hematocrit. The best thing to do
    >> on long runs is to drink as you run. I usually drink every 15-20
    >> minutes, from 8 to 10 oz (1/4 - 1/3 liter). For longer runs (3+
    >> hours) you need to take sodium to replace what you sweat. If it is
    >> very hot, take sodium (eg, Succeed! caps) on 1 1/2 to 2 hour runs.

    >
    >I drink before, during and after. 3 liters during the day is not that much
    >for me. That's what I'm used to. I don't think I'm in danger of
    >hyponatremia if my body has adjusted to this soft of quantity.


    Aside from exercise I drink about 4 liters a day, usually flavored with
    emer-gen-C powder (electrolytes). I drink up to 1/2 a liter of the same
    before long runs or bikes.

    On last weeks long run (just under 4 hours) I drank 2.5 liters water with 6
    scoops accelerade mixed into it (slightly weak), but if it was hotter I
    would have taken in 3-3.5 liters.

    On today's 4 hour bike ride (pretty hot out) I drank 3.5 liters accelerade
    (some of it was gatobarf), and when I got back I drank a liter of endurox
    and then later 1.5 liters water with some diet soda to make it paletable.

    I get my salts from saltly foods like pretzels and potassium salt
    substitute, and I take calcium/magnesium supplements. In the past I used to
    get hyponatremia quite often in summer and its not fun. The accelerade and
    endurox combination seem to keep body salts in balance.

    - Tony


    >
    >Phil M.
     
  9. Dan Stumpus

    Dan Stumpus Guest

    "Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote

    > Aside from exercise I drink about 4 liters a day, usually flavored with
    > emer-gen-C powder (electrolytes). I drink up to 1/2 a liter of the same
    > before long runs or bikes.
    >
    > On last weeks long run (just under 4 hours) I drank 2.5 liters water with

    6
    > scoops accelerade mixed into it (slightly weak), but if it was hotter I
    > would have taken in 3-3.5 liters.


    > On today's 4 hour bike ride (pretty hot out) I drank 3.5 liters accelerade
    > (some of it was gatobarf), and when I got back I drank a liter of endurox
    > and then later 1.5 liters water with some diet soda to make it paletable.


    What you want to do is to end the run only a pound or two lighter than you
    started. (you burn a couple of lbs of glycogen during a long run or ride).
    If you are thirsty enough to consume 2.5 liters of liquid after your event
    (that's about 5 lbs), than you are not drinking nearly enough during the
    workout.

    When you are this dehydrated, your performance declines, you overheat, you
    burn glycogen faster, and your recovery will be impared. For these reasons
    it's much better to somehow get more liquid during your workout than
    dehydrate yourself and replenish afterward.

    It took me a couple of years to learn this one after I started focusing on
    ultras. When I raced marathons, I could end the race weighing 8-10 lbs less
    than I started. I still wonder what times I could have run if I hadn't been
    so dehydrated...

    > I get my salts from saltly foods like pretzels and potassium salt
    > substitute, and I take calcium/magnesium supplements.


    Salt is good for endurance athletes, since we sweat so much of it out.
    Don't go overboard, but don't restrict it by using substitutes. (unless your
    doctor says otherwise)

    > In the past I used to
    > get hyponatremia quite often in summer and its not fun. The accelerade

    and
    > endurox combination seem to keep body salts in balance.


    The average person sweats out about 600 mg of sodium with each pound of
    sweat. So the ideal replenishment drink would have this much sodium per
    pint or half liter. Most have far less. This is why we crave salty foods
    during and after long workouts.

    In the ultra community, most runners take sodium suppliments during races.

    -- Dan
     
  10. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Dan Stumpus wrote in message ...
    >
    >"Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote
    >
    >> Aside from exercise I drink about 4 liters a day, usually flavored with
    >> emer-gen-C powder (electrolytes). I drink up to 1/2 a liter of the same
    >> before long runs or bikes.
    >>
    >> On last weeks long run (just under 4 hours) I drank 2.5 liters water with

    >6
    >> scoops accelerade mixed into it (slightly weak), but if it was hotter I
    >> would have taken in 3-3.5 liters.

    >
    >> On today's 4 hour bike ride (pretty hot out) I drank 3.5 liters

    accelerade
    >> (some of it was gatobarf), and when I got back I drank a liter of endurox
    >> and then later 1.5 liters water with some diet soda to make it paletable.

    >
    >What you want to do is to end the run only a pound or two lighter than you
    >started. (you burn a couple of lbs of glycogen during a long run or

    ride).
    >If you are thirsty enough to consume 2.5 liters of liquid after your event
    >(that's about 5 lbs), than you are not drinking nearly enough during the
    >workout.
    >
    >When you are this dehydrated, your performance declines, you overheat, you
    >burn glycogen faster, and your recovery will be impared. For these reasons
    >it's much better to somehow get more liquid during your workout than
    >dehydrate yourself and replenish afterward.


    Very true, but that was all I could get down yesterday; my system wasn't
    processing as well as it normally does. It's hard to get down more than 1
    liter/hour in any case.

    >
    >It took me a couple of years to learn this one after I started focusing on
    >ultras. When I raced marathons, I could end the race weighing 8-10 lbs

    less
    >than I started. I still wonder what times I could have run if I hadn't

    been
    >so dehydrated...


    I've been there too; 10 lbs is alot at your weight. If you were doing a
    longer ultra they would have stopped you at the weigh-in!? Most people
    don't realize you just have to force yourself to keep drinking and that's
    why its good to have multiple flavors to drink during a long event.

    >
    >> I get my salts from saltly foods like pretzels and potassium salt
    >> substitute, and I take calcium/magnesium supplements.

    >
    >Salt is good for endurance athletes, since we sweat so much of it out.
    >Don't go overboard, but don't restrict it by using substitutes. (unless

    your
    >doctor says otherwise)


    I use both regular salt on certain foods and potassium salt on other foods.

    >
    >> In the past I used to
    >> get hyponatremia quite often in summer and its not fun. The accelerade

    >and
    >> endurox combination seem to keep body salts in balance.

    >
    >The average person sweats out about 600 mg of sodium with each pound of
    >sweat. So the ideal replenishment drink would have this much sodium per
    >pint or half liter. Most have far less. This is why we crave salty foods
    >during and after long workouts.


    For the average person yes, but with intensive exercise, the body learns to
    sweat more efficiently and does not leech as much salt. But I don't dispute
    that extra salt is needed on top of sports drinks.

    >
    >In the ultra community, most runners take sodium suppliments during races.


    I take them with me also when out a long time, but also I take eletrolyte
    mix with magnesium/potassium because I've always thought these minerals are
    responsible for proper muscle function, and to help ward off cramps. I was
    surprised when I checked their website that Succeed caps contain only salt
    and not other electrolytes. IMO you need both.

    - Tony
    >
    >-- Dan
    >
    >
     
  11. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > towards hyponatrema, and lower your hematocrit. The best thing to

    do
    > > on long runs is to drink as you run. I usually drink every 15-20
    > > minutes, from 8 to 10 oz (1/4 - 1/3 liter). For longer runs (3+
    > > hours) you need to take sodium to replace what you sweat. If it is
    > > very hot, take sodium (eg, Succeed! caps) on 1 1/2 to 2 hour runs.

    >
    > I drink before, during and after. 3 liters during the day is not that

    much
    > for me. That's what I'm used to. I don't think I'm in danger of
    > hyponatremia if my body has adjusted to this soft of quantity.


    In general I have to agree with Dan. You may be getting by today with
    your proclivity for simple water but in general It's not good practice.
    I'm not one to agree that you train your body to adjust to deprivation.
    Of course we are talking about 10+ and being very vague about the + and
    or what you have ingesteted in general each day. To play Ozzie, my
    "lore" suggests that you hydrate before during and after with carbs and
    salt. To screw around with any of the phases is spinning the barrel and
    shooting. Feed the body! Even if you don't sense any depletion your
    muscles and general recovery will be very appreciative.

    -DougF
     
  12. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I take them with me also when out a long time, but also I take

    eletrolyte
    > mix with magnesium/potassium because I've always thought these

    minerals are
    > responsible for proper muscle function, and to help ward off cramps.


    < I was
    > surprised when I checked their website that Succeed caps contain only

    salt
    > and not other electrolytes. IMO you need both.


    Only salt? Not true. ""per capsule (100 Capsules/bottle): sodium 344 mg
    potassium 21 mg""

    While the postassium may look light, Karl King (the creatror) keeps the
    Na to K specifically at this ratio. Other products boost the K to a much
    higher level which is too much in general AND increases your stomach
    acidity. In an ultra when your stomach goes south, the runner ends up
    with major stomach problems often creating severe dehydration from
    blowing chunks and followed with a DNF.

    -DougF
     
  13. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    One dark day on Usenet, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> said
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> > towards hyponatrema, and lower your hematocrit. The best thing to

    > do
    >> > on long runs is to drink as you run. I usually drink every 15-20
    >> > minutes, from 8 to 10 oz (1/4 - 1/3 liter). For longer runs (3+
    >> > hours) you need to take sodium to replace what you sweat. If it is
    >> > very hot, take sodium (eg, Succeed! caps) on 1 1/2 to 2 hour runs.

    >>
    >> I drink before, during and after. 3 liters during the day is not that

    > much
    >> for me. That's what I'm used to. I don't think I'm in danger of
    >> hyponatremia if my body has adjusted to this soft of quantity.

    >
    > In general I have to agree with Dan. You may be getting by today with
    > your proclivity for simple water but in general It's not good practice.
    > I'm not one to agree that you train your body to adjust to deprivation.
    > Of course we are talking about 10+ and being very vague about the + and
    > or what you have ingesteted in general each day. To play Ozzie, my
    > "lore" suggests that you hydrate before during and after with carbs and
    > salt. To screw around with any of the phases is spinning the barrel and
    > shooting. Feed the body! Even if you don't sense any depletion your
    > muscles and general recovery will be very appreciative.


    I here ya. I guess the problem I have is that I'm always consious about
    my caloric intake. If feel better knowing that if I need to hydrate, I'm
    not also taking in a lot of empty calories, especially if I'm not going
    to be burning them up. I'd rather save my daily caloric needs for a
    decent meal that's not coming out of a bottle. So what do you suggest I
    drink that will not also pile on the calories?

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu
     
  14. Dan Stumpus

    Dan Stumpus Guest

    "Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote

    > >When you are this dehydrated, your performance declines, you overheat,

    you
    > >burn glycogen faster, and your recovery will be impared. For these

    reasons
    > >it's much better to somehow get more liquid during your workout than
    > >dehydrate yourself and replenish afterward.

    >
    > Very true, but that was all I could get down yesterday; my system wasn't
    > processing as well as it normally does. It's hard to get down more than 1
    > liter/hour in any case.


    Amazing fact: if the liquid is sloshing around and not being absorbed, your
    body needs salt. In order to absorb water, your body has to excrete sodium
    into it. If you're low on salt, the body hoards it, even if it means you
    get more dehydrated by leaving water in the stomach. Take a Succeed! cap
    and your stomach will drain, and your thirst will be stimulated.

    As far as queasiness goes, consuming only carbs causes your stomach to
    become acidic. This is why you need some light snacks with protein and a
    bit of fat to keep things in balance. Every two hours or so, I usually
    munch on some real food -- usually something with cheese which has salt,
    protein, and fat -- just what you need.

    -- Dan
     
  15. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I here ya. I guess the problem I have is that I'm always consious

    about
    > my caloric intake. If feel better knowing that if I need to hydrate,

    I'm
    > not also taking in a lot of empty calories, especially if I'm not

    going
    > to be burning them up. I'd rather save my daily caloric needs for a
    > decent meal that's not coming out of a bottle. So what do you suggest

    I
    > drink that will not also pile on the calories?


    I understand your concern about weight. I was once a portly lad of 39
    and took to running to remove all my extra chins and many extra
    waistline inches. OTOH restricting you caloric input while running is
    about the worst time to spin the barrel and pull the trigger. I would
    expect by now you have some idea about how many calories you need to
    ingest on a daily/weekly basis to keep your intake slightly negative and
    continue that 1/2 to one pound loss per week. I'm suggestion that during
    your run is when you need calories the most to feed your muscles and aid
    in the recovery process. As side bar to weight, be careful of the scale
    as the only guide. It's not unlikely that you are replacing some fat
    with muscle and the scale is giving you a positive reading. This may be
    a good time to have a hydrostatic body fat analysis to see where you
    stand. If your 240 and 5% body fat you would have to fast for a year to
    get rid of the muscle. A little humor but a fat analysis would be very
    helpful.

    -DougF
     
  16. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    One dark day on Usenet, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> said
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> I here ya. I guess the problem I have is that I'm always consious

    > about
    >> my caloric intake. If feel better knowing that if I need to hydrate,

    > I'm
    >> not also taking in a lot of empty calories, especially if I'm not

    > going
    >> to be burning them up. I'd rather save my daily caloric needs for a
    >> decent meal that's not coming out of a bottle. So what do you suggest

    > I
    >> drink that will not also pile on the calories?

    >
    > I understand your concern about weight. I was once a portly lad of 39
    > and took to running to remove all my extra chins and many extra
    > waistline inches. OTOH restricting you caloric input while running is
    > about the worst time to spin the barrel and pull the trigger. I would
    > expect by now you have some idea about how many calories you need to
    > ingest on a daily/weekly basis to keep your intake slightly negative

    and
    > continue that 1/2 to one pound loss per week. I'm suggestion that

    during
    > your run is when you need calories the most to feed your muscles and

    aid
    > in the recovery process. As side bar to weight, be careful of the scale
    > as the only guide. It's not unlikely that you are replacing some fat
    > with muscle and the scale is giving you a positive reading. This may be
    > a good time to have a hydrostatic body fat analysis to see where you
    > stand. If your 240 and 5% body fat you would have to fast for a year to
    > get rid of the muscle. A little humor but a fat analysis would be very
    > helpful.


    I've been thinking about the fat analysis. Actually, I believe I'm very
    close to if not already at my optimal running weight. I have a Taninta
    bodyfat scale which shows me to be anywhere from 3 to 5% bodyfat.
    However, these "bioelectrical impedance analysis" scales are never
    accurate. It just give me a general idea of the direction I am heading. I
    can tell just by my visible viens and muscles that I'm probably where I
    should be.

    How would I go about having my bodyfat clinically tested? Is this an
    expensive process? Could this be done as part of an anual physical?

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu
     
  17. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've been thinking about the fat analysis. Actually, I believe I'm

    very
    > close to if not already at my optimal running weight. I have a Taninta
    > bodyfat scale which shows me to be anywhere from 3 to 5% bodyfat.


    If you are at the 3-5% fat then you are at the Lance Armstrong level
    and all your body weight concerns are overkill. This should be the time
    where you able to eat fairly liberally with the usual attention to good
    calories(not simple carbs) with a clear conscience.


    > However, these "bioelectrical impedance analysis" scales are never
    > accurate.


    Very true and 3-5% sounds way TOOOOO low but you may be the perfect
    specimen.

    > How would I go about having my bodyfat clinically tested? Is this an
    > expensive process? Could this be done as part of an anual physical?


    It could be done about the same but if the real question, is it covered,
    I highly doubt it. In my area the Y used to do the test for $25 but
    that's here. I'd check with your local GP or health clinic to see what's
    available. I'm not saying that the numbers you state are not true but
    understand very few men are that low and if they come back with a number
    like 8-12% don't declare yourself obese and go on a 6 months water diet.
    The tables suggest that 8-19% is healthy. The again there is healthy
    and there is HEALTHY.

    Sam works a lot closer to this data and may be able to quote some better
    numbers or places to look for Hydrostatic testing or whatever the latest
    accurate protocol is.

    -DougF
     
  18. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    One dark day on Usenet, "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> said
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> I've been thinking about the fat analysis. Actually, I believe I'm

    > very
    >> close to if not already at my optimal running weight. I have a Taninta
    >> bodyfat scale which shows me to be anywhere from 3 to 5% bodyfat.

    >
    > If you are at the 3-5% fat then you are at the Lance Armstrong level
    > and all your body weight concerns are overkill. This should be the time
    > where you able to eat fairly liberally with the usual attention to good
    > calories(not simple carbs) with a clear conscience.
    >
    >
    >> However, these "bioelectrical impedance analysis" scales are never
    >> accurate.

    >
    > Very true and 3-5% sounds way TOOOOO low but you may be the perfect
    > specimen.


    Yes. I'm just going by how I look, how I feel, and how my training is
    progressing. So far I have not reduced my fat level to the point where I
    am hindering my running. So I guess I'm OK. Of course that's a guess
    given my current bofyfat measuring method.

    >> How would I go about having my bodyfat clinically tested? Is this an
    >> expensive process? Could this be done as part of an anual physical?

    >
    > It could be done about the same but if the real question, is it

    covered,
    > I highly doubt it. In my area the Y used to do the test for $25 but
    > that's here. I'd check with your local GP or health clinic to see

    what's
    > available. I'm not saying that the numbers you state are not true but
    > understand very few men are that low and if they come back with a

    number
    > like 8-12% don't declare yourself obese and go on a 6 months water

    diet.

    Hmmmm...it's scary how well you know me. ;-)

    > The tables suggest that 8-19% is healthy. The again there is healthy
    > and there is HEALTHY.


    Tables schmables. Aren't those tables more or less for the general
    population? Since I run and I want to run the fastest marathon time that
    I can, I should be well below any normal table. Is there a table out
    there that suggests bodyfat percentages for a "competitive" 47-year-old
    runner? I seem to recall Bob Glover's book having something on this. I
    believe the elites at my height (5' 10") are less than 140 lbs. Given my
    body mass, I don't think this is realistic or safe. I'm currently 160 lbs
    and appear to be pretty damn thin as it is.

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu
     
  19. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Doug Freese wrote in message ...
    >
    >"Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> I take them with me also when out a long time, but also I take

    >eletrolyte
    >> mix with magnesium/potassium because I've always thought these

    >minerals are
    >> responsible for proper muscle function, and to help ward off cramps.

    >
    >< I was
    >> surprised when I checked their website that Succeed caps contain only

    >salt
    >> and not other electrolytes. IMO you need both.

    >
    >Only salt? Not true. ""per capsule (100 Capsules/bottle): sodium 344 mg
    >potassium 21 mg""


    I stand corrected.
    >
    >While the postassium may look light, Karl King (the creatror) keeps the
    >Na to K specifically at this ratio. Other products boost the K to a much
    >higher level which is too much in general AND increases your stomach
    >acidity. In an ultra when your stomach goes south, the runner ends up
    >with major stomach problems often creating severe dehydration from
    >blowing chunks and followed with a DNF.


    Interesting I've never heard this before about potassium and acidity.

    >
    >-DougF
    >
    >
     
  20. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Dan Stumpus wrote in message ...
    >
    >"Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote
    >
    >> >When you are this dehydrated, your performance declines, you overheat,

    >you
    >> >burn glycogen faster, and your recovery will be impared. For these

    >reasons
    >> >it's much better to somehow get more liquid during your workout than
    >> >dehydrate yourself and replenish afterward.

    >>
    >> Very true, but that was all I could get down yesterday; my system wasn't
    >> processing as well as it normally does. It's hard to get down more than

    1
    >> liter/hour in any case.

    >
    >Amazing fact: if the liquid is sloshing around and not being absorbed,

    your
    >body needs salt. In order to absorb water, your body has to excrete sodium
    >into it. If you're low on salt, the body hoards it, even if it means you
    >get more dehydrated by leaving water in the stomach. Take a Succeed! cap
    >and your stomach will drain, and your thirst will be stimulated.
    >
    >As far as queasiness goes, consuming only carbs causes your stomach to
    >become acidic. This is why you need some light snacks with protein and a
    >bit of fat to keep things in balance. Every two hours or so, I usually
    >munch on some real food -- usually something with cheese which has salt,
    >protein, and fat -- just what you need.
    >
    >-- Dan
    >

    Yes I too nibble on something with protien during longer runs, usually a
    protien bar of some kind.
     
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