Drinking Salted water a good idea?

[DJJ]

Hi All,
It's my first post, and I wonder if anybody can help with this...

I'm a casual weekend rider, I typically ride about 150km on Sundays...
I'm based in Vietnam, so typically the temperature is 35 degrees or higher. As you'll all know (de)hydration is a real issue in temperatures like this.

I can't buy Gatorade (or similar) here, so typically I just drink water in my bottles, and then soft drinks when I stop (plus energy bars).

Would anyone recommend adding plain table salt to my water bottles? And if so, how much would you add to a 750ml bottle. (if you can tell me the answer in teaspoons rather than weight, that would be great).

After a 5 hour ride, I've probably drunk about 4 litres of liquid, which seems about right. However I'm wondering if adding salt would make me less tired at the end of the ride, or recover faster?

Any help/advice much appreciated!

 

[ed073]

Bad idea. You'll end up more dehydrated.
Just drink water from your bidons and the occaisonal soft drink and energy bars anre more than enough.

Next time you're at a bike shop, see if they have any powdered carbo drinks you can take home to add to your bidons.

 

[keydates]

You aren't supposed to drink water from the ocean without desalinizing it.

 

[DJJ]

Thanks for that. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here....

I just thought that since salt was one of the nutrients you lose when sweating a lot, that some attempt to replace the lost salt would help?
(I certainly wasn't planning on drinking sea water!!)

 

[ritcho]

Thanks for that. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here....

I just thought that since salt was one of the nutrients you lose when sweating a lot, that some attempt to replace the lost salt would help?
(I certainly wasn't planning on drinking sea water!!)

You are on the right track. Read this:

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/drinks.htm

It answers your original question regarding salt concentration for home-made sports drinks.

Ritch

 

[DJJ]

Great Stuff!

Yes that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Very helpful, and thanks for the information.

 

[Duckwah]

That site is not bad but it fails to address a major problem of most home made sprts drinks and that's the balance between sodium from table salt and the other minerals (in particular potassium).

If you are making your own drink with salt and water make sure you either eat fruit (bananas are good) or drink fruit juice during the ride. You can be replacing salt all day and still cramp due to potassium imbalance.

Overall for such demanding conditions I'd recommend trying to get some sport drink powder from overseas and use that.

 

[ritcho]

That site is not bad but it fails to address a major problem of most home made sprts drinks and that's the balance between sodium from table salt and the other minerals (in particular potassium).

If you are making your own drink with salt and water make sure you either eat fruit (bananas are good) or drink fruit juice during the ride. You can be replacing salt all day and still cramp due to potassium imbalance.

Overall for such demanding conditions I'd recommend trying to get some sport drink powder from overseas and use that.

Orange juice is relatively high in potassium (as far as juices go), I've had pretty good results from mixing diluted orange juice with table salt. (I dilute to a little over half-strength to get the carb/water ratio around 6%).

Whilst a properly formulated sports drink would be better, a home-made mixture like this one would be an improvement (at least), and definately cheaper.

Ritch

 

[Bikerbill98]

Why don't you follow the Gatorade label to obtain percentages?

 

[Duckwah]

Why don't you follow the Gatorade label to obtain percentages?

You can do that for sure but how much table salt do you need to equal say 100mg of sodium per 250ml of drink?

The answer is a little more complicated than it seems and then you can't just buy potassium citrate in a shop to add.

 

[HughMann]

Hi All,
I'm a casual weekend rider, I typically ride about 150km on Sundays...
I'm based in Vietnam, so typically the temperature is 35 degrees or higher. As you'll all know (de)hydration is a real issue in temperatures like this.

Would anyone recommend adding plain table salt to my water bottles? And if so, how much would you add to a 750ml bottle.
After a 5 hour ride, I've probably drunk about 4 litres of liquid, which seems about right. However I'm wondering if adding salt would make me less tired at the end of the ride, or recover faster?

Any help/advice much appreciated!

I am in tropical Townsville, 19 degrees south so conditions are probably similar.
Here we have a product in the supermarket called "Lite Salt". Its for people on reduced salt diets, heart problems etc. Contains 50% Potassium Chloride and 50% Sodium Chloride. Readily available.
Advice on the link is good.
I occasionally do 100k in daylight but much too hot now.
Ride at night - cooler
Sports drink that I make up is:
1/4 tsp Lite Salt
3 tbsp dried corn syrup ( maltodextrin) availible from home brew beer shop,
2 tbsp Ginger cordial to keep guts settled ( and I like it ! )

I make up enough "concentrate" for 4 bottles and carry in a small bottle and mix up at refill stops.

Its no miracle brew but it helps me to recover. Not "totally" wasted after a hard ride.

Water Intoxication (Hyponatremia ) is a killer alright. A friend nearly died from it. Best way to avoid it is to keep snacking and drinking when exercising heavily. Bushwalkers nibble constantly. Always have pockets full of "scroggin" mix. nuts, rasins, savory biscuit crumbs, dried banana chips for a start. Might not be really suitable for riding snack thou, choking hazard on the little bits. Ok at stops thou.
Hope this is some help.

Interested in spending a couple of months in Vietnam touring. A friend has been there and has got me interested. Are you from Vietnam or Ex- pat. What is cost of living like now?

Cheers
Hugh

 

[Bikerbill98]

You can do that for sure but how much table salt do you need to equal say 100mg of sodium per 250ml of drink?

The answer is a little more complicated than it seems and then you can't just buy potassium citrate in a shop to add.

Actually you can buy all you need at the grocery. Here are a few products in my local store: No Salt, 1/4 tsp=1.3 grams, No Na, 650 mg K (Potassium); Salt Sense, 1/4 tsp= 1 gram, 390 mg Na, No K, Lite Salt, 1/4 tsp=1.4 grams, 290 mg Na, 340 K; NU Salt, 1/4 tsp=1 gram, 538 mg K, No Na. Regular salt: 1/4 tsp = 590 mg Na.

You can make up you own drink, but consider when looking at all the products on the market, whom do you want to emulate? Who has the best data backing up their product? Although "K" is not listed in the following charts
http://www.runningtimes.com/issues/01julaug/gels.htm the ratios are usually around 2:1 to 4:1. ( i.e. Gatorade is 110 mg Na to 30 mg K). With respect to sugar, all I've read suggest to keep it below 8%. I can attest to that after drinking grape juice and/or apple juice while on a ride. The cramps began in less than an hour and I was heading for the bushes soon afterwards. Actually, if you take a look at the various juices on the store shelf you can come up with a mixture including all the Na and K you want. Take a look at V8 jiuce. Although, I don't know what you'd mix it with except for vodka.

So, for what it's worth, I drink water for hydration and juices and drink milk for energy while touring. I consume about 28 oz of Gatorade every 20 miles for convenience sake depending on the weather. I actually drink more milk than juice. Since I don't race, unless I'm reeling someone in for fun and ego, I don't need anything special to drink.

 

[DJJ]

Hi All!

I was out on my bike on the weekend and rode 180km in the sun again...

I used the mixture suggested by Ritcho (50% orange juice and water with a pinch of table salt) and this seemed to work quite well. I finished my ride feeling quite strong, and more importantly, my weight on finishing was the same as at the start.

(previously, I was losing about 2 or 3kg after a long ride, and since I'm only 60kg to start with, this was quite a worry!)

I may try some of the other suggestions (thanks for all). but the above also has the advantage of simplicity.

Regarding Hugh's query about Vietnam, yes I'm a Brit based in Ho Chi Minh City. Cost of living (food accomodation) is still very cheap here, and cycling touring can be great fun once you are away from the main roads and big cities.

(I may be organising a 2 week tour for July/August 2005 from Vietnam to Laos if you're interested!)

Have a good day!

 

[vlad]

East Texas aint fit for man nor beast from 900am to 500pm May through Sept -- unless you happen to love heat and humidity.
I add 1/2 teaspoon Morton LiteSalt to my 2 liter backpack canteen.
Here is why ...........
page 118 Let's Eat Right by Adelle Davis
Under normal circumstances, a healthy person runs little risk of deficiencies of sodium and chlorine. In extremely hot weather, however, so much salt can be lost through perspiration that death may occur.
Death from salt deficiency occured during the construction of Boulder Dam and similiar projects. During the blistering summer of 1933 I corresponded with an engineer who was working on Parker Dam. Each letter contained some such note as, "We had a wonderful cook but he died yesterday of sunstroke." The symptoms of sunstroke are now recognized as caused largely by loss of salt through perspiration.
A lack of salt causes symptoms varying in severity from mild lassitude, weariness, or hot-weather fatigue, common during heat waves, to heat cramp, heat exhaustion, and heatstroke, familiar to those who work in iron foundries, furnace or boiler rooms, and industrial plants such as steel or paper mills. Even persons who play tennis or take similar exercise during hot weather may suffer from heat stroke.
Persons working in extremely hot weather are often advised to take a salt tablet with each drink of water.
page 187 there are three nutrients - potassium, sodium and chlorine which we need in quite large amounts. Sodium and chlorine are supplied by tablet salt.

Morton LiteSalt 11 oz about 99c
1 oz = 6 teaspooons
11 oz = 66 teaspoons= 76,560 mg sodium, and 89,760 mg potassium

1/4 teaspoon serving
290 mg sodium
340 mg potassium
40% iodine
p273 "Let's eat right" by Adelle Davis "People who salt food lightly should add 3,000 mg sodium to a day's dietary, and those who enjoy well salted food 7,000 mg. Normally, the intake of potassium should be approximately the same as that of sodium, and calcium intake should be 2/3 that of phosphoros."
Seems to me that Gatorade and similar "sport"drinks is a rather expensive way to replace sodium and potassium

Gatorade per 8oz serving
total fat.....................0 grams
sodium .................110 mg
potassium................30 mg
total carb.................14 grams
sugars.....................14 grams
protein .....................0 grams

 

[TKOS]

If you are in Vietnam, you might be able to buy a beverage called Poccari Sweat. My girlfriend brought me some back from Japan. It is basically gatorade though with a bit more of a salty taste to it.

 

[Orange Fish]

Hi All,
It's my first post, and I wonder if anybody can help with this...

I'm a casual weekend rider, I typically ride about 150km on Sundays...
I'm based in Vietnam, so typically the temperature is 35 degrees or higher. As you'll all know (de)hydration is a real issue in temperatures like this.

I can't buy Gatorade (or similar) here, so typically I just drink water in my bottles, and then soft drinks when I stop (plus energy bars).

Would anyone recommend adding plain table salt to my water bottles? And if so, how much would you add to a 750ml bottle. (if you can tell me the answer in teaspoons rather than weight, that would be great).

After a 5 hour ride, I've probably drunk about 4 litres of liquid, which seems about right. However I'm wondering if adding salt would make me less tired at the end of the ride, or recover faster?

Any help/advice much appreciated!

Hey DJJ,
check out http://www.hammernutrition.com . they have some good info and lots of products to help you. you might find something good on the web site.

 

[daymat]

Hey DJJ,
check out http://www.hammernutrition.com . they have some good info and lots of products to help you. you might find something good on the web site.

some useful links for homemade drinks , salt discussion

http://www.cptips.com/hmdesnk.htm#sport <======= homemade sports drink - i'm using recipe #3 with jiff lemon juice/glucose - very refreshing !

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/product2004/nutri/fluidq4.html <===== in summary .... add a pinch of salt to your energy drink !