Driver attitudes to helmets

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Richard Burton, Nov 18, 2003.

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  1. >It wasn't Helen or Ian behind the wheel was it:)?

    Not amusing.

    helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     


  2. On 18 Nov 2003 18:49:34 GMT, [email protected] (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:

    >>It wasn't Helen or Ian behind the wheel was it:)?
    >
    >Not amusing.
    >
    >helen s
    >
    >
    >--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    >fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
    >

    Retracted with apologies H & I.

    I didn't read the rather insulting last line of the OP until Guy's post prompted me to
    re-read. I had rapidly misread it as a tale of someone placing too much faith in the
    talismatic property of a hat.

    Oops.
     
  3. Paul Lydon

    Paul Lydon Guest

    On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:09:23 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

    >JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>Richard Burton wrote:
    >
    >>> Just had reported to me last night an incident that I consider so disturbing, I felt I should
    >>> enquire whether this was a single incident or part of a trend.
    >>>
    >>> Car overtakes cyclist, and immediately turns left, not the disturbing bit, it's happened to most
    >>> of us, but the next bit is. The cyclist caught up with the driver, and remonstrated with her:
    >>> her response being "well if I'd knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're
    >>> not wearing a helmet"
    >>>
    >>> Please confirm that this woman is uniquely stupid, and that this was a unique incident,
    >>> otherwise the ramifications are too awful to contemplate.
    >
    >>It has happened to me when a car pulled out of a side road and I had to slam on the brakes. When I
    >>suggested various options for a change of lifestyle for the driver, he told me it was my fault for
    >>not wearing a helmet.
    >
    >>It is a growing trend for drivers to think they can do whatever they want and that if they cause a
    >>crash it is never their fault.
    >
    >Reminds me of the time a car pulled into a roundabout in front of me, causing me to brake my
    >motorcycle very hard and just manage to stop before hitting the passenger side door. The roads were
    >otherwise deserted, so waiting for me to pass -- and I did have right of way -- would have held up
    >the car a few seconds. It was midday in the summer, and the car's side windows were open.
    >
    >The passenger was so scared she emitted a small shriek as my tyres squealed and I appeared to be
    >going to dive into her window. I ended up so close I could clearly hear the driver's reply, which
    >was, "Don't worry, this is a Volvo."

    Reminds me of a story: the brother of an old friend of mine had exactly the same thing happen to him
    when out on his motorbike - only he collided with the near front wing, shot across the bonnet and
    slid some distance down the road.

    Luckily he was only badly bruised. He picked himself up and staggered back to his bike. The driver
    rolled down his window and after the customary "Sorry - I didn't see you!" followed by "I hope you
    haven't damaged my car!", my friend's brother punched him in the gob!

    When the police arrived and the driver complained that he had been assaulted - the policeman replied
    "Well - what did you expect him to do after what you did to him - give you a big kiss!"

    --
    Paul Lydon Winster, Derbyshire, UK --> Remove the 'DELETE' in email address to reply <--
     
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    news:[email protected]...
    > I've read this thread and think it's very funny. I live in the Netherlands and when riding my
    > speed-bike I do wear a
    helmet,
    > thoug nobody is forcing me to do so. I've been in a few nearly collision situations, with mopeds,
    > other cyclist (people riding their ordinary bike on sunday), pedestrians walking their dogs or
    > cars. Most of the time, even when I was not really speeding, the response of
    "the
    > other site" was something like "there you go, another cycling idiot" or a cynical "oh look,
    > there's someone thinking she's Lance Armstrong" I'm totally convinced this attitude was caused by
    > me wearing a helmet. A lot
    of
    > people (non speed cyclists) presume you are a reckless cyclist when
    wearing
    > a helmet. So in Holland you're guilty in public opinion when you DO wear a helmet.

    I have ridden in Belgium wearing a helmet and got funny looks. There were very few cyclists who did.

    Although you got much more respect from drivers. I believe that the is a "guilty until proved
    innocent" view from the law for vehicle / cycle collisions as there is in many European countries.

    --
    Andrew

    "Look laddie, if you're in the penalty area and aren't quite sure what to do with the ball, just
    stick it in the net and we'll discuss all your options afterwards."

    >
    > "Richard Burton" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Just had reported to me last night an incident that I consider so disturbing, I felt I should
    > > enquire whether this was a single incident
    or
    > > part of a trend.
    > >
    > > Car overtakes cyclist, and immediately turns left, not the disturbing
    bit,
    > > it's happened to most of us, but the next bit is. The cyclist caught up with the driver, and
    > > remonstrated with her: her response being "well if
    > I'd
    > > knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're not
    wearing
    > a
    > > helmet"
    > >
    > > Please confirm that this woman is uniquely stupid, and that this was a unique incident,
    > > otherwise the ramifications are too awful to
    contemplate.
    > >
    >
     
  5. Rifleman

    Rifleman Guest

    "Paul Lydon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:09:23 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:
    >
    > >JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
    > >
    > >>Richard Burton wrote:
    > >
    > >>> Just had reported to me last night an incident that I consider so disturbing, I felt I should
    > >>> enquire whether this was a single incident
    or
    > >>> part of a trend.
    > >>>
    > >>> Car overtakes cyclist, and immediately turns left, not the disturbing
    bit,
    > >>> it's happened to most of us, but the next bit is. The cyclist caught
    up
    > >>> with the driver, and remonstrated with her: her response being "well
    if I'd
    > >>> knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're not
    wearing a
    > >>> helmet"
    > >>>
    > >>> Please confirm that this woman is uniquely stupid, and that this was a unique incident,
    > >>> otherwise the ramifications are too awful to
    contemplate.
    > >
    > >>It has happened to me when a car pulled out of a side road and I had to
    slam
    > >>on the brakes. When I suggested various options for a change of lifestyle for the
    driver, he
    > >>told me it was my fault for not wearing a helmet.
    > >
    > >>It is a growing trend for drivers to think they can do whatever they
    want and
    > >>that if they cause a crash it is never their fault.
    > >
    > >Reminds me of the time a car pulled into a roundabout in front of me, causing me to brake my
    > >motorcycle very hard and just manage to stop before hitting the passenger side door. The roads
    > >were otherwise deserted, so waiting for me to pass -- and I did have right of way -- would have
    > >held up the car a few seconds. It was midday in the summer, and the car's side windows were open.
    > >
    > >The passenger was so scared she emitted a small shriek as my tyres squealed and I appeared to be
    > >going to dive into her window. I ended up so close I could clearly hear the driver's reply, which
    > >was, "Don't worry, this is a Volvo."
    >
    > Reminds me of a story: the brother of an old friend of mine had exactly the same thing happen to
    > him when out on his motorbike - only he collided with the near front wing, shot across the bonnet
    > and slid some distance down the road.
    >
    > Luckily he was only badly bruised. He picked himself up and staggered back to his bike. The driver
    > rolled down his window and after the customary "Sorry - I didn't see you!" followed by "I hope you
    > haven't damaged my car!", my friend's brother punched him in the gob!
    >
    > When the police arrived and the driver complained that he had been assaulted - the policeman
    > replied "Well - what did you expect him to do after what you did to him - give you a big kiss!"
    >

    Some years ago I was talking to a member of the Diplomatic Escort Group of the Met who told me he
    was proceeding down the road on his white and very reflective Hi-Viz BMW with blues and twos going
    AS WELL, and HE got pulled out on by some moron who said.... wait for it........"I didn't see you
    mate!" Fortunately the cop was able to reply with "You're nicked!"
     
  6. Sabineuk

    Sabineuk Guest

    "Richard Burton" [email protected] said:

    [Near-miss left hook, the driver's]
    >response being "well if I'd knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're not
    >wearing a helmet"

    Sadly reminiscent of a former colleague of my ex.

    She reportedly killed a cyclist by dooring him. No prosecution, and her rationalisation (over the
    course of the next three years, so it wasn't an immediate response) was that it was his fault
    because he wasn't wearing a lid. She was, of course, traumatised and therefore the victim.

    I'm just glad I never actually met the blind, hypocritical, homicidal bitch.

    John
     
  7. Andymorris

    Andymorris Guest

    Chris Malcolm wrote:
    > JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> Richard Burton wrote:
    >
    >>> Just had reported to me last night an incident that I consider so disturbing, I felt I should
    >>> enquire whether this was a single incident or part of a trend.
    >>>
    >>> Car overtakes cyclist, and immediately turns left, not the disturbing bit, it's happened to most
    >>> of us, but the next bit is. The cyclist caught up with the driver, and remonstrated with her:
    >>> her response being "well if I'd knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're
    >>> not wearing a helmet"
    >>>
    >>> Please confirm that this woman is uniquely stupid, and that this was a unique incident,
    >>> otherwise the ramifications are too awful to contemplate.
    >
    >> It has happened to me when a car pulled out of a side road and I had to slam on the brakes. When
    >> I suggested various options for a change of lifestyle for the driver, he told me it was my fault
    >> for not wearing a helmet.
    >
    >> It is a growing trend for drivers to think they can do whatever they want and that if they cause
    >> a crash it is never their fault.
    >
    > Reminds me of the time a car pulled into a roundabout in front of me, causing me to brake my
    > motorcycle very hard and just manage to stop before hitting the passenger side door. The roads
    > were otherwise deserted, so waiting for me to pass -- and I did have right of way -- would have
    > held up the car a few seconds. It was midday in the summer, and the car's side windows were open.
    >
    > The passenger was so scared she emitted a small shriek as my tyres squealed and I appeared to be
    > going to dive into her window. I ended up so close I could clearly hear the driver's reply, which
    > was, "Don't worry, this is a Volvo."

    You can still put a dent in them with yer boot.

    --
    Andy Morris

    AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

    Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
     
  8. [email protected] (SabineUK)typed

    > "Richard Burton" [email protected] said:

    > [Near-miss left hook, the driver's]
    > >response being "well if I'd knocked you off, it would have been your fault because you're not
    > >wearing a helmet"

    > Sadly reminiscent of a former colleague of my ex.

    > She reportedly killed a cyclist by dooring him. No prosecution, and her rationalisation (over the
    > course of the next three years, so it wasn't an immediate response) was that it was his fault
    > because he wasn't wearing a lid. She was, of course, traumatised and therefore the victim.

    > I'm just glad I never actually met the blind, hypocritical, homicidal bitch.

    > John

    The Coroner might have said the same thing, giving weight to her 'rationalisation'

    I have had the misfortune to treat such a victim.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email protected] Edgware.
     
  9. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > On this subject, it was so warm tonight that I rode home in shorts and with nothing at all on my
    > head (I usually have a beanie or a cap in winter). It was nice to feel the breeze, and reminded me
    > why I really don't like helmets.

    I've been enjoying the delights of bare-headed riding in this unseasonably warm weather, too.

    --
    Dave...
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, Zog The Undeniable wrote:
    >vuelta wrote:
    >
    >> A lot of people (non speed cyclists) presume you are a reckless cyclist when wearing a helmet. So
    >> in Holland you're guilty in public opinion when you DO wear a helmet.
    >
    >I knew someone whose father wouldn't let him have a bike with drop handlebars for the same reason.
    >This was in the days before MTBs, so he ended up with an zero street cred Raleigh Twenty. Needless
    >to say, he never rode it.

    Should have held out for a high street cred Raleigh Twenty :)
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html
     
  11. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > The Coroner might have said the same thing, giving weight to her 'rationalisation'

    Thankfully coroners have only a tangential role in the justice system. After all, one coroner would
    appear from the evidence presented hereabouts to have interpreted turning right as a woeful failure
    to defer to overtaking traffic.

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  12. W K

    W K Guest

    "Alan Braggins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Zog The Undeniable wrote:
    > >vuelta wrote:
    > >
    > >> A lot of people (non speed cyclists) presume you are a reckless cyclist when
    wearing
    > >> a helmet. So in Holland you're guilty in public opinion when you DO wear a
    helmet.
    > >
    > >I knew someone whose father wouldn't let him have a bike with drop handlebars for the same
    > >reason. This was in the days before MTBs, so he ended up with an zero street cred Raleigh Twenty.
    > >Needless to say, he never rode it.
    >
    > Should have held out for a high street cred Raleigh Twenty :)
    > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html

    Anyone seen the photo of George Best on one? Was in the Times with Lance's artice.
     
  13. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >Thankfully coroners have only a tangential role in the justice system. After all, one coroner would
    >appear from the evidence presented hereabouts to have interpreted turning right as a woeful failure
    >to defer to overtaking traffic.

    Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things. In 1998 Peter Longbottom was
    riding a bicycle on the outskirts of York when he was killed by a motorist. The police and coroner
    blamed him for his own death, which the media reported, because he was wearing dark clothing. A
    prime example of victim blaming.

    Then there was the well known moron in London, the one who had the hands chopped off the victims of
    the Marchioness disaster (he claimed he did not order this, but this was a highly dubious claim).

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  14. Selwonk

    Selwonk Guest

    "David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    > <[email protected]> wrote this:-
    >
    > >Thankfully coroners have only a tangential role in the justice system. After all, one coroner
    > >would appear from the evidence presented
    hereabouts
    > >to have interpreted turning right as a woeful failure to defer to
    overtaking
    > >traffic.
    >
    > Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things. In 1998 Peter Longbottom was
    > riding a bicycle on the outskirts of York when he was killed by a motorist. The police and coroner
    > blamed him for his own death, which the media reported, because he was wearing dark clothing. A
    > prime example of victim blaming.
    >
    > Then there was the well known moron in London, the one who had the hands chopped off the
    > victims of the Marchioness disaster (he claimed he did not order this, but this was a highly
    > dubious claim).
    >
    As a friend of mine says "Not a good idea because all you have at the end of that is a bucket of
    hands........"
     
  15. Rifleman

    Rifleman Guest

    "Selwonk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote this:-
    > >
    > > >Thankfully coroners have only a tangential role in the justice system. After all, one coroner
    > > >would appear from the evidence presented
    > hereabouts
    > > >to have interpreted turning right as a woeful failure to defer to
    > overtaking
    > > >traffic.
    > >
    > > Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things. In 1998 Peter Longbottom was
    > > riding a bicycle on the outskirts of York when he was killed by a motorist. The police and
    > > coroner blamed him for his own death, which the media reported, because he was wearing dark
    > > clothing. A prime example of victim blaming.
    > >
    > > Then there was the well known moron in London, the one who had the hands chopped off the victims
    > > of the Marchioness disaster (he claimed he did not order this, but this was a highly dubious
    > > claim).
    > >
    > As a friend of mine says "Not a good idea because all you have at the end
    of
    > that is a bucket of hands........"
    >
    >

    In the immortal words of Knookie the Bear: "Where are the Andes?" At the end of your wristes"!
     
  16. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    rifleman wrote:
    >
    > In the immortal words of Knookie the Bear: "Where are the Andes?" At the end of your wristes"!

    And where did Napolean keep his armies? Up his sleevies.

    The old ones are the best

    Tony
     
  17. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things. In 1998 Peter Longbottom was
    > riding a bicycle on the outskirts of York when he was killed by a motorist. The police and coroner
    > blamed him for his own death, which the media reported, because he was wearing dark clothing. A
    > prime example of victim blaming.

    I thought the problem there was that he was using an illegal flashing rear light, which tests show
    are only three to five times more visible than legal, steady ones?

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  18. In article <[email protected]>, David Hansen wrote:
    >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:12:41 -0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    ><[email protected]> wrote this:-
    >
    >>Thankfully coroners have only a tangential role in the justice system. After all, one coroner
    >>would appear from the evidence presented hereabouts to have interpreted turning right as a woeful
    >>failure to defer to overtaking traffic.
    >
    >Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things.

    _People_ are prone to saying and doing stupid things. Coroners are more likely to have it
    reported when they do than most (which is fair enough, since it's more likely to be a serious
    problem when they do).
     
  19. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Alan Braggins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > >Unfortunately coroners are prone to saying and doing stupid things.

    > _People_ are prone to saying and doing stupid things. Coroners are more likely to have it reported
    > when they do than most (which is fair enough, since it's more likely to be a serious problem when
    > they do).

    _People_ tend to be a bit more careful when what they say might be taken as some kind of legal
    endorsement for a given behaviour. The coroner who criticised Graham Bufton for daring to turn
    right, thus causing his own death in a collision with a vehicle which had decided to overtake him
    while he was turning, appeared to be of the opinion that a cyclist is duty bound to defer to
    following traffic. He is wrong in law. A Coroner's court is an official institution, so IMO that
    kind of pronouncement should be dealt with most seriously.

    A magistrate who made such a comment would quite likely be heavily criticised by the
    superior courts.

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
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