Driver fined for killing cyclist.

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Simon Mason, Aug 21, 2003.

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  1. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html

    I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    to school.

    Simon

    A WOMAN motorist has been ordered to pay £305 for driving without due care and attention following a
    collision in which an off-duty policeman died.

    Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.

    The bench heard that the car driver had not seen the oncoming cyclist as she made a right turn.

    At Blandford Court Tina Maureen Raye Ward, 36, of Bagwell Farm, Knights in the Bottom, Chickerell,
    admitted driving without due care and attention in Radipole Lane on March 7.

    She was ordered to pay a fine and costs totalling £305 and had six penalty points put on her
    driving licence.

    Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary lapse of concentration.

    The court was told the accident had been just after 4pm when 50-year-old police scenes-of-crime
    officer Robin Povall had been cycling home from work.

    Ward's Nissan Micra car, which had been coming from the opposite direction, turned directly into the
    path of the bicycle. Magistrates heard that the police officer's cycle would have been within the
    sight line of the car driver when she began to make the turn and he was wearing high visibility
    clothing, including a bright yellow top.

    Defending, Rod Evans told the court: "This is a truly tragic set of events."

    He added Ward was full of remorse over the accident adding: "She had slowed down and indicated. She
    didn't see him. She cannot explain why she didn't see him."

    Ward, a cleaner at the caravan park where she lives, had been returning from Weymouth with her
    14-year-old son.

    He said Ward was adamant that she had looked and told the court that her son had not spotted the
    cyclist either.
     
    Tags:


  2. Simon Mason wrote:

    > Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    > Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.

    Those pesky bicycles. Always colliding with cars. Sometimes I think they must have minds of
    their own...

    Three hundred quid. Gagh!

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  3. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Simon Mason <[email protected]> typed:
    > http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    > I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    > to school.
    >
    > Simon
    >

    Tsk, all the cyclists fault. Shouldn't have been wearing that high visibility bright yellow cloaking
    device. What's a driver to do?

    Tony

    --
    "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve immortality through not
    dying." Woody Allen
     
  4. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Dave Larrington must be edykated coz e writed:

    >
    > Three hundred quid. Gagh!
    >
    >
    Yeah, was a bit high wasn't it, a totally over the top giving her six points as well. Of course they
    weren't going to ban her, it wasn't serious like going over 100mph on a deserted stretch of motorway
    or anything, she only killed a cyclist.

    --
    Ian

    http://www.catrike.co.uk
     
  5. James Hodson

    James Hodson Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:47:53 +0100, "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    >I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    >to school.
    >

    [SNIP story]

    Hi Simon

    I'm getting really p*****d off with this sort of thing. The excuse given is all too often along the
    lines of "I didn't see him." Moreover, we're often told that the driver feels remorse. Well, sorry,
    the driver would be cruel indeed if she/he didn't feel any remorse. But to my mind, feeling sorry
    after the fact is not an excuse.

    >Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary lapse of concentration.
    >
    And that's all it takes to kill someone. A momentary lapse of concentration costs one life and £305.

    >He said Ward was adamant that she had looked and told the court that her son had not spotted the
    >cyclist either.
    >
    So that's good is it? As neither person saw the copper on his bike it's OK to plough into him?

    >Defending, Rod Evans told the court: "This is a truly tragic set of events."
    >
    I'm sure the policeman's family feel similarly.

    James

    --
    "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse for having killed someone.
     
  6. Thomas Buck

    Thomas Buck Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    > I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    > to school.
    >
    > Simon

    I'm in two minds about this kind of thing. Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but
    surely prison should only be a last resort, for those who are a danger to society if left walking
    down the street.

    On the other hand, I think some sort of community service should have been given - sounds like that
    fine will cover the court's costs and give nothing back to society.

    Thomas.
     
  7. Doobrie

    Doobrie Guest

    well, this has made my miind up on the joining ctc issue ... assuming of course they are pro tougher
    action on the cagers! its time people were given minimum of a prison sentence + very high fines for
    this sort of thing and whatever else we can think of!

    i was just in a room where someone was complaining about receiving £365 fine and 4 points on their
    license for doing 58 in a 40 zone.

    he didnt injure anyone, so why has she received such a similair fine/points whilst killing someone?
    absolutely crazy the law in this country - you cant defend your own home without going to prison,
    yet can drive a car and kill someone and walk away with minimal fuss

    grrrrr.
     
  8. Temp3st

    Temp3st Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    > I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    > to school.
    >
    > Simon
    >
    >
    >
    > A WOMAN motorist has been ordered to pay £305 for driving without due care and attention following
    > a collision in which an off-duty policeman died.
    >
    > Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    > Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.
    >
    > The bench heard that the car driver had not seen the oncoming cyclist as
    she
    > made a right turn.
    >
    > At Blandford Court Tina Maureen Raye Ward, 36, of Bagwell Farm, Knights in the Bottom, Chickerell,
    > admitted driving without due care and attention in Radipole Lane on March 7.
    >
    > She was ordered to pay a fine and costs totalling £305 and had six penalty points put on her
    > driving licence.
    >
    > Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary lapse of concentration.
    >
    > The court was told the accident had been just after 4pm when 50-year-old police scenes-of-crime
    > officer Robin Povall had been cycling home from
    work.
    >
    > Ward's Nissan Micra car, which had been coming from the opposite
    direction,
    > turned directly into the path of the bicycle. Magistrates heard that the police officer's cycle
    > would have been within the sight line of the car driver when she began to make the turn and he was
    > wearing high visibility clothing, including a bright yellow top.
    >
    > Defending, Rod Evans told the court: "This is a truly tragic set of
    events."
    >
    > He added Ward was full of remorse over the accident adding: "She had
    slowed
    > down and indicated. She didn't see him. She cannot explain why she didn't see him."
    >
    > Ward, a cleaner at the caravan park where she lives, had been returning
    from
    > Weymouth with her 14-year-old son.
    >
    > He said Ward was adamant that she had looked and told the court that her
    son
    > had not spotted the cyclist either.
    >
    >
    >

    this kind of s**t makes me sick. I bet the silly cow would have seen him if there were much tougher
    penalties!!!
     
  9. David Nutter

    David Nutter Guest

    doobrie <[email protected]> said:
    > well, this has made my miind up on the joining ctc issue ... assuming of course they are pro
    > tougher action on the cagers! its time people were given minimum of a prison sentence + very high
    > fines for this sort of thing and whatever else we can think of!

    I'd settle for them not doing it again ever: prison isn't a good or cost-effective way of doing
    this. A ban and an extended re-test is a better way.

    > i was just in a room where someone was complaining about receiving £365 fine and 4 points on their
    > license for doing 58 in a 40 zone.
    >
    > he didnt injure anyone, so why has she received such a similair fine/points whilst killing
    > someone? absolutely crazy the law in this country - you cant defend your own home without going to
    > prison, yet can drive a car and kill someone and walk away with minimal fuss

    For the same reason that the corrective options available to the judiciary for attempted murder are
    the same as for actual murder. "Rewarding" (by lower penalties) unsuccessful criminal behaviour
    isn't really sensible.

    Regards,

    -david
     
  10. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Thomas Buck must be edykated coz e writed:

    >
    > "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >>
    >> I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    >> to school.
    >>
    >> Simon
    >
    > I'm in two minds about this kind of thing. Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but
    > surely prison should only be a last resort, for those who are a danger to society if left walking
    > down the street.
    >
    > On the other hand, I think some sort of community service should have been given - sounds like
    > that fine will cover the court's costs and give nothing back to society.
    >
    > Thomas.
    >
    >
    how about a 12 month ban with a re test required as an absolute minimum as well as some community
    service and a fat fine?

    --
    Ian

    http://www.catrike.co.uk
     
  11. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Doesnotcompute wrote:

    >Did you cycle through Preston?

    On 18th August at about 12.30 - it was the only place where my GPS let me down and I got lost. Why
    do you ask? Did you spot me?

    >Hope you start to feel better sometime soon.

    Thanks - I'm feeling much better now and may even go on a ride along the Thames Path to enjoy the
    evening light.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  12. Iarocu

    Iarocu Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    > I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    > to school.
    >
    > Simon
    >
    >> Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary
    lapse of
    > concentration.
    >
    >As I understand it drivers convicted of careless driving are punished
    for the act of driving without due care and attention and the consequences have little or no bearing
    on the sentence. It seems unjust that this driver and others like her continue to drive after
    killing someone while someone who speeds will get a ban eventually. Speeding attracts a ban, I would
    suppose, because of the increased danger of collisions and injury to other road users. Why then when
    a fatal collision has occurred due to poor driving is there not a mandatory period of
    disqualification. Time to join the CTC. Iain C
     
  13. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    Seethe, seethe....

    > Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    > Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.

    No it wasn't, the clueless cow hit him.

    > The bench heard that the car driver had not seen the oncoming cyclist as
    she
    > made a right turn.

    Which is a statement of guilt not an excuse, obviously.

    > She was ordered to pay a fine and costs totalling £305 and had six penalty points put on her
    > driving licence.

    Tch tch. If she does it again she might get a slapped wrist. Whatever happened to these new
    guidelines about drivers who kill getting meaningful punishments? But that probably only applies if
    they kill other drivers; clearly cyclists are asking for trouble simply by being there.

    > Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary lapse of concentration.

    That is the bit that really pisses me off. Everybody knows that momentary lapses of concentration
    while driving can kill, so why should we accept that the death is just an accident simply because
    some stupid cow can't be bothered to pay attention?

    > Ward's Nissan Micra car, which had been coming from the opposite
    direction,
    > turned directly into the path of the bicycle. Magistrates heard that the police officer's cycle
    > would have been within the sight line of the car driver when she began to make the turn and he was
    > wearing high visibility clothing, including a bright yellow top.

    So the fact that she didn't see him means SHE WASN'T F***ING LOOKING!

    > He added Ward was full of remorse over the accident adding: "She had
    slowed
    > down and indicated. She didn't see him. She cannot explain why she didn't see him."

    So she'd warned other people she was going to turn and that absoplves her of any responsibility for
    looking. Only in CagerWorld (TM).

    So, what should the penalty be? Seems to me that a ban plus retest and a significant fine would be a
    good start. After all, if you drive while drunk and risk killing someone, you get an automatic ban
    even if you get away without crashing, so if you drive carelessly and actually do kill someone
    surely you should expect a penalty of at least the same magnitude?

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.com
     
  14. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:02:52 +0100, "Thomas Buck" <tom [at] greysheep [dot] co [dot] uk> wrote:
    >>Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but surely prison should only be a last resort,
    >
    > I agree completely. There's no indication that this driver set out to mow down a cyclist.

    So its not murder, its manslaughter.

    > But driving is a privilege, and a difficult skill. If you clearly can't do it right, then you
    > should lose the first until you demonstrate the second. I'm quite happy with an automatic long ban
    > for anyone who kills another, following a conviction for negligent driving (even a relatively
    > minor offence)
    >
    > A low fine is insulting. The "school run" defence is farcical.

    A court order that the children travel to school by public transport might help here. Perhaps one
    which included all the other children in the vicinity, for their own protection against this
    obviously incompetent driver. Oh, and let all the families know exactly why they've just got this
    "inconvenience".

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  15. John'S Cat

    John'S Cat Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:47:53 +0100, "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    >I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    >to school.
    >
    > Simon
    >
    >
    >
    >A WOMAN motorist has been ordered to pay £305 for driving without due care and attention following
    >a collision in which an off-duty policeman died.
    >
    >Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    >Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.
    >
    If the police can't bring any pressure to bear over one of their own, the rest of us are screwed.
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS1.html
    >
    > I noticed in another paper that she was not banned as she said she needed her car to take her son
    > to school.
    >

    Just absolutely ****ing disgraceful.

    Andrew

    > Simon
    >
    >
    >
    > A WOMAN motorist has been ordered to pay £305 for driving without due care and attention following
    > a collision in which an off-duty policeman died.
    >
    > Det Con Robin Povall died of serious injuries after his bicycle was in collision with a car in
    > Weymouth, a magistrates court was told.
    >
    > The bench heard that the car driver had not seen the oncoming cyclist as
    she
    > made a right turn.
    >
    > At Blandford Court Tina Maureen Raye Ward, 36, of Bagwell Farm, Knights in the Bottom, Chickerell,
    > admitted driving without due care and attention in Radipole Lane on March 7.
    >
    > She was ordered to pay a fine and costs totalling £305 and had six penalty points put on her
    > driving licence.
    >
    > Magistrates decided that the tragic accident followed a momentary lapse of concentration.
    >
    > The court was told the accident had been just after 4pm when 50-year-old police scenes-of-crime
    > officer Robin Povall had been cycling home from
    work.
    >
    > Ward's Nissan Micra car, which had been coming from the opposite
    direction,
    > turned directly into the path of the bicycle. Magistrates heard that the police officer's cycle
    > would have been within the sight line of the car driver when she began to make the turn and he was
    > wearing high visibility clothing, including a bright yellow top.
    >
    > Defending, Rod Evans told the court: "This is a truly tragic set of
    events."
    >
    > He added Ward was full of remorse over the accident adding: "She had
    slowed
    > down and indicated. She didn't see him. She cannot explain why she didn't see him."
    >
    > Ward, a cleaner at the caravan park where she lives, had been returning
    from
    > Weymouth with her 14-year-old son.
    >
    > He said Ward was adamant that she had looked and told the court that her
    son
    > had not spotted the cyclist either.
    >
     
  17. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:02:52 +0100, "Thomas Buck" <tom [at] greysheep [dot] co [dot] uk> wrote:
    >
    > >Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but surely prison should only be a last resort,
    >
    > I agree completely. There's no indication that this driver set out to mow down a cyclist.
    >
    > But driving is a privilege, and a difficult skill. If you clearly can't do it right, then you
    > should lose the first until you demonstrate the second. I'm quite happy with an automatic long ban
    > for anyone who kills another, following a conviction for negligent driving (even a relatively
    > minor offence)
    >
    > A low fine is insulting. The "school run" defence is farcical.

    Yeah, that's what got me. The bench were going to ban her from driving, but took pity on her
    as she had to drive her son to school. Maybe she doesn't let him cycle there as it's too
    dangerous :-( Simon
     
  18. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:30:36 +0100, Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote:

    >So its not murder, its manslaughter.

    I take your point, but I think even manslaughter is excessive. There's room for a lot more gradation
    than our current two levels.
     
  19. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:30:36 +0100, Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>So its not murder, its manslaughter.
    > I take your point, but I think even manslaughter is excessive. There's room for a lot more
    > gradation than our current two levels.

    In a "OK, I'll let myself be taken a little out of context sort of way", we do have another
    gradation. I believe its called something like "unlawful killing". It doesn't seem to get used much,
    and when it does, it seems to be rail executives getting away with no penalty for anything, even
    when the buck stops at them being responsible for multiple deaths in a single incident. <FX:rant
    limitation device cuts in>

    I'm all for having a few more levels in most things.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  20. Pete Whelan

    Pete Whelan Guest

    Simon Mason wrote:
    > Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:02:52 +0100, "Thomas Buck" <tom [at] greysheep [dot] co [dot] uk> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but surely prison should only be a last resort,
    >>
    >>I agree completely. There's no indication that this driver set out to mow down a cyclist.
    >>
    >>But driving is a privilege, and a difficult skill. If you clearly can't do it right, then you
    >>should lose the first until you demonstrate the second. I'm quite happy with an automatic long ban
    >>for anyone who kills another, following a conviction for negligent driving (even a relatively
    >>minor offence)
    >>
    >>A low fine is insulting. The "school run" defence is farcical.
    >
    >
    > Yeah, that's what got me. The bench were going to ban her from driving, but took pity on her as
    > she had to drive her son to school. Maybe she doesn't let him cycle there as it's too dangerous
    > :-( Simon

    perhaps they aught to tell her to cycle as part of her 'punishment'.

    --
    Pete

    interchange 12 for 21 to reply
     
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