Driver fined for killing cyclist.

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Simon Mason, Aug 21, 2003.

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  1. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Pete Whelan <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    > perhaps they aught to tell her to cycle as part of her 'punishment'.

    Heavens, no. All London cabbies spend months going round on mopeds gaining the knowledge. Look what
    that does for their appreciation of other road users when they get their cab.

    Tony

    --
    "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain
     


  2. Robert Bruce

    Robert Bruce Guest

    "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote

    > we do have another gradation. I believe its called something like "unlawful killing".

    Is there not an even lesser offence of 'criminal negligence' too?

    --
    Rob

    Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute and benefit.
     
  3. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Pete Whelan must be edykated coz e writed:

    > Simon Mason wrote:
    >> Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:02:52 +0100, "Thomas Buck" <tom [at] greysheep [dot] co [dot] uk> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but surely prison should only be a last resort,
    >>>
    >>> I agree completely. There's no indication that this driver set out to mow down a cyclist.
    >>>
    >>> But driving is a privilege, and a difficult skill. If you clearly can't do it right, then you
    >>> should lose the first until you demonstrate the second. I'm quite happy with an automatic long
    >>> ban for anyone who kills another, following a conviction for negligent driving (even a
    >>> relatively minor offence)
    >>>
    >>> A low fine is insulting. The "school run" defence is farcical.
    >>
    >>
    >> Yeah, that's what got me. The bench were going to ban her from driving, but took pity on her as
    >> she had to drive her son to school. Maybe she doesn't let him cycle there as it's too dangerous
    >> :-( Simon
    >
    > perhaps they aught to tell her to cycle as part of her 'punishment'.
    She could get a tandem for the school run, but she would complain that there are too many crazy car
    drivers to risk cycling.

    --
    Ian

    http://www.catrike.co.uk
     
  4. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Robert Bruce wrote:

    > "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    >>we do have another gradation. I believe its called something like "unlawful killing".
    >
    > Is there not an even lesser offence of 'criminal negligence' too?

    That rings a bell. I'd say its somewhere in that region if you do something you could have avoided
    by paying attention and observing your duty to others, and you end up killing someone as a result.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  5. rigsby@degsy

    [email protected] New Member

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    I bet the fine of £305 wouldn't even cover
    the cost of the bike.

    WHAT A FARCE..

    If drivers ADMIT to NOT seeing other traffic etc,
    Surely they should be BANNED instantly for at least
    12 months & forced to PAY to improve their eyesight in order to get back on the road.

    HOW MANY MORE BLIND DRIVERS ARE THERE
    just waiting to kill another person...?

    I wonder if she will GET OFF the road & allow her son
    to cycle or EVEN WALK to school.

    My opinion on the driving test is that ALL drivers ,as part of the test, should be MADE to pass some form of cycling test (written for the less able bodied people) or at least
    ride a minimum amount of hours on the roads,
    B4 they even sit behind the wheel.
    At least this way, drivers will have more understanding of cyclists
    needs etc etc.
    They might even decide to scrap the driving altogether & enjoy
    cycling.
    IF more people cycled there would be LESS "accidents" as there would be LESS cars out there.
    I drive just like a lot of us here & also cycle...so at least I get
    to see the varying needs of drivers & cyclists alike.


    Cheers
    Del.
     
  6. >> Ward's Nissan Micra car, which had been coming from the opposite
    >direction,
    >> turned directly into the path of the bicycle. Magistrates heard that the police officer's cycle
    >> would have been within the sight line of the car driver when she began to make the turn and he
    >> was wearing high visibility clothing, including a bright yellow top.

    Klingon cloak of invisibility :-(

    >>
    >> Defending, Rod Evans told the court: "This is a truly tragic set of
    >events."
    >>

    Particularly for the policeman now dead.

    Not seeing someone wearing hi-viz clothing in daylight is appalling. Was she banned from
    driving at all??

    helen s


    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**[email protected]*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
    overdependence on money and fame
    ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  7. Stevie D

    Stevie D Guest

    Thomas Buck <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm in two minds about this kind of thing. Yes, the woman's made a mistake when driving, but
    > surely prison should only be a last resort, for those who are a danger to society if left walking
    > down the street.

    Who's talking about prison? I'd just like to see the dozy bitch lose her licence for a year and have
    to take another test after that to get it back. The majority of the time, I don't think that locking
    up dangerous drivers is of any benefit, but preventing them for driving will do so, and may make
    them - and other people they know - value their licences more, and take more care.

    --
    Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
    \'///////_____________________________________________
     
  8. Stevie D

    Stevie D Guest

    David Nutter wrote:

    > For the same reason that the corrective options available to the judiciary for attempted murder
    > are the same as for actual murder. "Rewarding" (by lower penalties) unsuccessful criminal
    > behaviour isn't really sensible.

    I'd rather come across a driver who does 58 in a 40 limit *if* he's paying attention to the road and
    everyone on and around it and is not causing imminent danger, than some dizzy bint who drives into a
    cyclist because she wasn't looking.

    --
    Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
    \'///////_____________________________________________
     
  9. Jim Price wrote:

    > A court order that the children travel to school by public transport might help here.

    Better yet, get 'em to /cycle/ to school.

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  10. Tony Raven wrote:

    > Heavens, no. All London cabbies spend months going round on mopeds gaining the knowledge. Look
    > what that does for their appreciation of other road users when they get their cab.

    I don't have a problem with London taxis when cycling. Bus drivers, on the other hand, are largely
    scum, who need re-educating.

    With power tools.

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] () wrote:

    > My opinion on the driving test is that ALL drivers ,as part of the test, should be MADE to pass
    > some form of cycling test

    I've always thought this but in broader terms.

    To get a licence for any motorised vehicle a potential driver should at least experience (if not
    already done) rides in/on

    Pushbike HGV Motorbike Horse etc.

    Jon
     
  12. Doobrie

    Doobrie Guest

    > Who's talking about prison? I'd just like to see the dozy bitch lose

    i was .. it was almost my initial reaction to it ... well, after hang the woman!

    on reflection, 3 years ban, heavy fine and community service in the aid of bettering road users use
    of the road in some way would go part way towards a reasonable penatly ... alternatively, forced to
    cycle an end-end to get a better understanding of cyclists needs and then the above penalty too!
     
  13. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I don't have a problem with London taxis when cycling.

    My experience of cabbies is that they know you are there and are pushing their luck.

    > Bus drivers, on the other hand, are largely scum, who need re-educating.

    Agreed.

    T
     
  14. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 01:21:56 +0100 someone who may be Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >we do have another gradation. I believe its called something like "unlawful killing". It doesn't
    >seem to get used much, and when it does, it seems to be rail executives

    Which rail executives have been convicted of unlawful killing?

    >getting away with no penalty for anything, even when the buck stops at them being responsible for
    >multiple deaths in a single incident.

    Which incident(s) do you have in mind?

    Certainly with some the buck stops at John Major.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  15. Frank X

    Frank X Guest

    "Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I don't have a problem with London taxis when cycling.
    >
    > My experience of cabbies is that they know you are there and are pushing their luck.
    >
    > > Bus drivers, on the other hand, are largely scum, who need re-educating.
    >
    > Agreed.
    >

    I live on the outskirts and find the most annoying bus driver behaviour is on narrow country roads
    where although they can see that oncoming traffic means they can't overtake they just sit two foot
    diagonally behind and outside me going 20mph +, which to my mind means any accident and I go
    straight under their wheels.

    I remember 20 years ago bus drivers used to be some of the best drivers but now as you say they are
    just scum.
     
  16. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    David Hansen wrote:
    > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 01:21:56 +0100 someone who may be Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote this:-
    >>we do have another gradation. I believe its called something like "unlawful killing". It doesn't
    >>seem to get used much, and when it does, it seems to be rail executives
    >
    > Which rail executives have been convicted of unlawful killing?

    The sentence (literary, not custodial) was not intended to be split here. You will notice that I
    carried on to say...

    >>getting away with no penalty for anything, even when the buck stops at them being responsible for
    >>multiple deaths in a single incident.

    In other words, there was discussion about prosecuting them for such an offence, and indeed it was
    believed by some that the offence was brought into being for just such transgressions, but I don't
    recall anyone actually getting prosecuted, much less convicted. This would be why I said they got
    away with it.

    > Which incident(s) do you have in mind?

    All of them. If I have to elaborate, I would politely inquire whether you have been living a life of
    seclusion since rail privatisation.

    > Certainly with some the buck stops at John Major.

    So clearly you know what I mean. The buck passers have responsibility too, IMHO.

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  17. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:38:56 +0100 someone who may be Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >> Which incident(s) do you have in mind?
    >
    >All of them.

    So, the railways are responsible for people driving cars onto the railway? That might be an
    interesting one to try in court.

    >If I have to elaborate,

    You have to do nothing. What you want to do is up to you.

    >I would politely inquire whether you have been living a life of seclusion since rail privatisation.

    Not quite.

    >> Certainly with some the buck stops at John Major.
    >
    >So clearly you know what I mean. The buck passers have responsibility too, IMHO.

    You still have to come up with examples of which crashes railway executives were responsible for
    multiple deaths.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  18. Gary Sinnott

    Gary Sinnott Guest

    On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:59:19 +0100, "doobrie" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Who's talking about prison? I'd just like to see the dozy bitch lose
    >
    >i was .. it was almost my initial reaction to it ... well, after hang the woman!
    >
    >on reflection, 3 years ban, heavy fine and community service in the aid of bettering road users use
    >of the road in some way would go part way towards a reasonable penatly ... alternatively, forced to
    >cycle an end-end to get a better understanding of cyclists needs and then the above penalty too!
    >

    Ker-ching... 2p in the slot.

    ... We spend a lot of time in this thread considering what to give the perp who has eye trouble or
    is just a shit driver - but what about the family of the victim?

    If the victim is a child, the immediate family will have to bear the brunt of the pain.

    If a sole wage earning spouse, the family will bear the pain and the hardship.

    And so on. If the driver causes an accident in which there is the taking of one or more lives...

    Shouldn't we be asking how much the scroat's insurance should pay up - how much their insurance
    premiums should rise (not in £££ but in multiples of the original premium)?

    A custodial sentence would mostly make someone bitter - the "why me?" syndrome. Ditto for taking
    their licence away. You have to go further.

    So give 'em just three months solitary with a copy of the highway code, a transcript of the court
    case and some pictures of the victim before (with & without family) and *after* the "accident".
    Something to meditate on.

    Then hit 'em with a mandatory 1 year ban followed by a retest - without exception: get caught
    driving, a life ban (and a tattoo on the forehead?), then if caught again, 5 years inside, & so on.

    Add to that a *minimum* payout of £1M to the family from their insurance. Then you hit them where it
    hurts the most. A premium hike of *at least* triple and, oooh, loss of NCD!

    We might suddenly see more drivers with their eyes & minds on the driving and less time spent
    holding the phone yacking, overtaking on blind bends, chugging a big mug of coffee, etc,
    et-bloody-cettera.

    Just slapping the wrist doesn't work, except maybe with the perp, it's not a deterrent as most
    drivers would say "Oh, silly sod, it wouldn't happen to me coz I'm a *far* better driver"...
    crunch, oops!

    I always thought the best way to murder someone would be to wait until they were out on foot
    somewhere and then go get some booze inside you and run 'em over - you'd get a few points on your
    licence, a ban, some moderate financial penalty maybe. I was wrong. Just run 'em over while they're
    on a bike and say "Sorry, didn't see him" and they pat your shoulder and give you yer car keys back.

    (yeah, I'm still pissed about the last splatter victim.)

    Gary

    --------------------------------------------------
    Reply to gary <at> data <dot> mildenhall <dot> com
    --------------------------------------------------
     
  19. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

  20. "Stevie D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David Nutter wrote:
    >
    > > I think that the quality of the argument in this thread has fallen

    language. To refer to the driver as a 'cow' and a 'bint' puts gender into the argument in an
    inappropriate way. The implication is that it it women who are inattentive while men's speeding is
    far preferable - a very dubious premise.

    Without knowing all the circumstances it is difficult to comment on the appropriateness of sentences
    but it does seem to me that substantial bans are the way forward. I think that dangerous and
    inattentive drivers should have their licences taken away for substantial periods. I think that one
    year as some have suggested seems very short given that a death has resulted. But will we ever deal
    with the Daily Mail type views that motoring offences are trivial even though they kill people while
    burgalries are terrible despite resulting in relatively few injuries.

    Cliff Griffiths
    >
    > I'd rather come across a driver who does 58 in a 40 limit *if* he's paying attention to the road
    > and everyone on and around it and is not causing imminent danger, than some dizzy bint who drives
    > into a cyclist because she wasn't looking.
    >
    > --
    > Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
    > common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
    > \'///////_____________________________________________
     
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